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1925 Buick carburetor flooding problem


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Hi everyone -

 

I took my roadster out for another test drive and after driving about 1 or 2 miles it flooded out. Gas was ‘bubbling’ out of the top where there is a valve that looks to be designed for an air pressure release. See photo.  The carburetor is an Marvel for the standard engine that is in the car.

 

I think that the needle is not setting correctly but not sure exactly what the problem is. The float is in pretty good shape for an original. I went through the carburetor and set everything to specs as best I could and made new gaskets. I took the cover off to check the fuel level and it is about 1/8” below the top of the bowl. It seems to flood more often after it warms up but I haven’t ran it enough to verify this is true. I have run it for 10 to 15 minutes at idle with the top off and the float maintained the fuel level without any issues.

 

I am using an electrical fuel pump and have a filter just before the pump. Inside the original vacuum fuel canister on the fire wall I have a small single barrel carburetor. The float in this carburetor controls the fuel level in the canister. I have a wire mesh filter in the bottom of the canister where the fuel gravity drains to the Marvel carburetor. This system works remarkably well.

 

When it flooded out it must have been under some pressure. It doesn’t seem like you would be able to have that much pressure with a gravity feed. I am thinking the problem must be either small particles in the fuel or the needle and seat are worn out. I don’t suppose I can buy a new needle valve anywhere? Any suggestions would be appreciated.

 

Thanks Ken

 

 

4696F204-C7BF-49A2-A5AE-1B91EC90BB31.jpeg

Edited by KEK
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The spring loaded valve in the bowl cover is Marvel's early attempt at a "choke" ;)

 

Often referred to as a "flooder" valve; when one needed to start a cold engine in cold weather, one depressed the plunger, which depressed the float, and gasoline went everywhere! But it would create a richer starting mixture.

 

It could also be used to flood the fuel valve and flush any dirt or other debris.

 

Jon.

Edited by carbking (see edit history)
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normal gravity pressure is 1/2 #per foot of elevation.  what pressure  does your electric pump produce?  I assume that you have a needle and seat in the vacuum tank.  This could be leaking and flooding the vacuum tank.

 

Bob Engle

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6 hours ago, carbking said:

The spring loaded valve in the bowl cover is Marvel's early attempt at a "choke" ;)

 

Often referred to as a "flooder" valve; when one needed to start a cold engine in cold weather, one depressed the plunger, which depressed the float, and gasoline went everywhere! 

 

Jon.

 

I just decided to change the way I start my car. I've been opening up the gas adjustment screw by a 180-degree turn to start the car and shut it 180 degree turn once it starts. It's a pain, but pushing the plunger thingy on the float sounds much easier. It's like an early accelerator pump for giving an extra squirt of gas for starting.

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Ken, 

    It is interesting that the needle does well at idle but not at speed.   It may need a little breaking in.  I would also suggest putting in a nitrophyl float.   

    I do not believe replacement needles are available, and the seat is the float bowl.  If someone knows otherwise, please enlighten me.

Inspect the needle.  It should not have a "ring" in the tapered point.  If it does, you will need to have it turned to a smooth cone again on a very small lathe.  If you are lucky and it is still a smooth cone, you can put just a spot of fine valve grinding compound evenly on the taper of the needle.  Not too much.  Follow the instructions below.   I learned this trick from a friend that flies vintage airplanes.   Hugh

1842752573_Marvel10.thumb.JPG.11db1745b35b38ae8d8ebb4b81f7d97e.JPG

 

 

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Replacement needles AND seats come in the carburetor rebuilding kit.

 

The trick of chucking the needle in a lathe (with a taper attachment) and then turning out the groove (if a groove is present) will work if the fuel valve seat screws in from the same direction as the needle is inserted, but will no work in this case. 

 

WHY?

 

When one turns out the groove on the needle, one changes the overall length of the needle. To compensate, one must either bend the float arm (guaranteed to break on these early cast brass arms) OR place a thicker washer under the seat if the seat screwed in from the same direction as the needle. Since the seat in this carburetor screws in from the BOTTOM, it would be necessary to remove the seat and either find a thinner washer (good luck) OR chuck the seat in the lathe and remove the corresponding amount of metal from the seating area of the seat.

 

Jon.

Edited by carbking (see edit history)
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Thanks Jon.

 I know Hugh and I have done a bit of lapping of the needles on the carbs we have for our 1925s. Things would seem to work for a while on mine. One carb I adapted a Viton tip to the one needles and had to make a small brass cage for the needle to seek center. That worked well for a while also. On all  3 of the carbs I have worked on I have not been able to remove the seat. I feel if I would torque it anymore it would destroy it. Even after I went strictly with the vacuum tank, when shut down the carb leaks if I do not use my in line ball valve shut off. Even though the vacuum tank valve shut off is closed.

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Larry - you are using the wrong tool to remove the seat ;)

 

Before I describe this...................................it works with brass carbs and cast iron carbs (modified procedure) NOT WITH ZINC ALLOY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Find the worst BRASS carb you have, so you can try the procedure. Get a pair of vise-grips, a five gallon bucket, a piece of foam rubber, 3 gallons of water, and an acetyline torch (NOT MAPP gas or propane).

 

Put the foam rubber in the bottom of the bucket, and add the water. Grasp the carburetor body with the vise-grips. Turn on the torch. Heat the bottom (where the screw slot is located) of the seat with the torch. Exactly when the color of the flame changes from blue to a greenish-yellow, drop the casting into the bucket of water.

 

Remove the casting from the water, and unscrew the seat.

 

To make this post more generic, for cast iron carburetors:

 

Do everything as above but DO NOT QUENCH IN THE WATER! Let the casting cool naturally.

 

THE CAVIAT: NEVER EVEN THINK ABOUT THE POSSIBILITY OF CONSIDERING HEATING EARLY ZINC ALLOY WITH A TORCH!  IT CAN EXPLODE!

 

Jon

Edited by carbking (see edit history)
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16 hours ago, carbking said:

The spring loaded valve in the bowl cover is Marvel's early attempt at a "choke"

All my Marvel carbs have a choke valve. 

I believe a better term for the button on the bowl cover is a "tickler".  

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Thanks everyone for the terrific input. I learn something new all the time on this forum and these postings are another example. I am also going to start the car now by first pressing the ‘flooder’ value to prime it. 

 

So based on all the input I am going to pull my single barrel carburetor that is in the vacuum fuel canister and replace the needle and seat. Seems like if there is enough pressure in the Marvel to cause it to bubble out of the flooded valve it makes sense that the fuel is not always shutting off in the canister. I am running the fuel pump at one of the lowest settings but if the needle valve isn’t seating then fuel would come out of the flooder valve.

 

I need to run out to my shop and pull the needle out of the Marvel that is on the car and inspect it for the grove on the shaft. I remember reading about that in the Shop Manual but I can’t remember if the needle had a groove or not. I can’t remember if I was able to remove the needle from the carburetor. I also looked through my other Marvel carburetors and found a needle and seat that looks like it may be new.  I might just put this one in the car since it looks so good if I can remove the seat from the other carburetor. If not, I might try Jon’s procedure to remove the seat if I have the courage to heat it up and quench it!  I am familiar with this procedure from trying to remove venturies from my Model A Zenith carburetors but never did attempt to do it.

 

Jon - what parts are in your rebuild kit besides the new needle and seat?

 

Thanks,

Ken

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Hope your float looks and works better than mine.  After my 24 years of ownership and who knows how many seasons before that, my float gave up the ship this spring.  
 

Carved a nice replacement out of nitrophyl.  

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  • 3 weeks later...

I finally found a needle and seat from a 1946 Jeep for the Carter carburetor that I have installed in the fuel canister. So with the new needle and seat in both the Marvel and the Carter I think my flooding problems are solved. I drove the car for 10 miles and didn’t break down! That’s a record. When I returned from my joy ride I noticed a slight stumble at idle. I happened to have the hood up and by chance was looking at the Marvel when it happened. I noticed a very thin film of fuel quickly develop on the top of the Marvel cover when it stumbled but then the engine recovered within a second and no fuel was bubbling out the “flooder” valve as it previously did.

 

I am thinking maybe my float is getting saturated and not recovering fast enough causing the slight stumble. I have an original float and it is in far better condition than Brian’s float in the photo. It looks more like the original float that Morgan showed in his video. The concern I have is when I cleaned my float I accidentally removed a lot of the original varnish.  I don’t know if I damaged the cork and now it can get saturated with fuel and change the buoyancy of the cork. Buick varnished the corks  for some reason and I am thinking it was to protect it from the fuel. I should probably just replace it with a nitrophyl as Hugh suggested.

 

Ken

 

 

 

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  • 9 months later...

Hi Hugh -

 

You mention in your carburetor rebuild slides that you set the tail clearance between the venturi and air valve less than the recommended specification.  The calibration chart from Marvel’s carburetor booklet 87 gives a range from 0.009”- 0.017.”  Do you remember what you set your tail clearance at?

 

The reason I am asking is because I recently installed copper blanking gaskets in the heat riser on my standard. When I put it back together the gasket between the carburetor and the heat riser was leaking so I removed that copper blanking gasket. I still have blanking gaskets in the small 1” diameter return heater pipe and the upper opening where exhaust gases enter the manifold. So both the entrance and exits are blocked. Now when I start the engine I don’t have a good idle anymore.  

 

In fact, it idles similar to the way it idled before I replace the venturi with a new one.  I thought I set the tail clearance too large but I was mistaken.  When I removed the carburetor to install the copper blanking gaskets I measured the gap at 0.0035.”  So actually I am under spec for the tail clearance.  I am going to remove the carburetor again and would like to set the tail cleanse the same amount of gap you set yours at.

 

When I had the carburetor off I accidentally broke the solder at the base of the high speed jet when I was trying to align the tip with the center of the air valve.  I re-soldered the base. Doesn’t look pretty but should hold. 

 

I also filed a little material off the tip of the air valve so I could get it to lay flatter in the body.  The air valve looks nice and tight in the body but when a strong light is shined into the bottom you can see a fine line of light all the way around the air valve so I was trying to eliminate this light. Hope I didn’t screw anything up.

 

Thanks,

Ken

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Ken, 

   It is important to have all 3 blanking plates installed that are in my slide presentation.   You may have a pin hole leak in the tubing that is in the vertical section of the heat riser above the carburetor.  That vertical riser has to be blanked off on both ends.   Against the carburetor and on the exhaust manifold.  The round blanking plate is just to keep heat out of the S shaped tube.  

 

I made the tail clearance on my carburetor just so light should pass.  I thought .009 to .017 seemed rather large, but now I am second guessing the Marvel engineer.  I bet I am about .0035.  I did not do any dressing to the air valve itself.  

 

The carburetor body for a Standard is 10-11.  The Master is 10-87.  The brass bowl assembly for a Standard is 65-10 (The book says 65-524) but all of mine are 65-10.  

 

Hugh

Edited by Hubert_25-25 (see edit history)
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Hugh -

 

I replaced the vertical intake tubing inside the heat riser last year and have good manifold vacuum.  The leak I saw was between the carburetor gasket and blanking plate.  I could actually see small bubbles so that is why I removed that blanking plate.  I am thinking a new gasket might help.  I looked at Olsen’s website but they didnt list any gaskets for the standard and I haven’t called them yet to see if they have any.  Did you assemble your gasket and blanking plates dry or did you apply a sealer on them?

 

I found the reason I lost my idle.  I accidentally bent the HS jet so when I replaced the bowl the jet was offset enough that the air valve could not close.  That’s why it idled similar to before I replaced the venturi.  

I fixed that problem and it idles great again. The jet is bent a bit but I wasn’t sure how the jet is fixed to the base so I didnt want to remove it and reposition it.  I just soldered the crack and beefed up the base.  Then when I tried to straighten the jet it bent a little.  See pic. 

 

When I removed the carburetor to fix the jet problem I opened up the tail clearance from 0.0035” to 0.0060”.  I can’t tell any difference so far.  

 

When I removed the carburetor I found that the small 1-inch round copper plug I epoxied in the S shaped tubing was missing!  I removed my exhaust pipe and was able to shake it out. So I didn't put the plug back in.  I am worried it might fall out again and get stuck in the muffler.  I have the valve where the small pipe returns exhaust gases fixed in the open position and have the blanking plate blocking the exhaust from entering the manifold at the top.

 

I am still having flooding issues. My carburetor body is also a 10-11.  My brass bowl assembly is 65-10.  I replaced the float with a plastic one from Bob’s. All my jets seem to be close to the numbers listed in the the calibration chart from Marvel’s carburetor booklet 87.  The carburetor needle and seat seems to work and it doesn’t drip any gasoline overnight.  I removed the top of the bowl so I could watch at idle fuel entering when the valve opens.  It seems to be entering at a higher pressure than necessary so I was thinking my fuel level in the vacuum canister is to high.  I lowered the canister by 1-1/2 inches but that didn't seems to help.  I previously replaced the needle and seat in the Carter carburetor I have inside the vacuum canister to control the fuel level and reduced my fuel pressure regulator to the lowest setting of 1 psi which really should have no effect on the pressure inside the canister. Do you know how high the fuel level rises in the vacuum canister?  I watched a video that Morgan or Larry posted and remember him saying the fuel is only in the lower half of the canister.  That is about where my fuel level is at.

 

Thanks,

Ken

 

 

 

7FDC1BED-40FE-4353-8A1A-1E789A8916E8.jpeg

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Ken,

   There are 3 copper/asbestos gaskets that came from Olsons.  This style does not normally need gasket compound if the surfaces are cleaned up real well with a razor blade.  Given the location at the exhaust manifold, the sealant would need to be a high heat type.  Not sure what that would be.  I did not use any sealants, but I did clean the mating surfaces up real well. 

The vertical blanking plate is against the exhaust manifold, then the gasket, then the vertical riser.

The horizontal blanking plate is against the carburetor, then the gasket on the top side of the blanking plate.

My round blanking plate in the S tube must be a larger diameter than yours.  The diameter of my blanking plate is larger than the hole, so it can not fall into the exhaust. 

 

With the blanking plate in the S tube, and the exhaust manifold plate installed, there should be no heat on the carburetor flange, and you could use Permatex #2 where you left out the blanking plate on the carburetor gasket.

     

The jet only needs to function and it does not need to get an award for looking nice.  Your photo is OK.  

 

My vacuum canister is stock and I simply rebuilt it and I have not looked into details of its operation.      Hugh

 

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Ken:

 It looks as though youn are working through your issues. It is good thast you can leave the car overnight and not have the carb dripping. I have an auxilary shut off valve in line just before the carb. I have tried to lap in the needle valve and the vacuum tank shut off valves to be able to truly shut things off when at rest but no luck.

 The tail clearance I had set at .007 and after 3 years it had closed back up.

DSCF7001.JPG.30a69611d0c0ec1d20fad7bfba7393be.JPGI had to file the block again.

I had tested my riser by blanking off and turning it upside down and filling the outside chamber with gas. No leaks. That was several years ago. Since I had my engine rebuilt 3 years ago I just reinstalled the carb and riser set up with the correct heat by-pass tube with appropriate machined plugs and blanking plates to elininate all heat.

DSCF7053.JPG.018755c7f30f9286f7563c0f426147fd.JPG  Just about finished engine re-assembly.   408899350_1925BUICKLEFTSIDEENGINE.jpg.a6405790e96d44b243995cab7564b15a.jpg  This is what things looked like when I bought the car in 2011.

The heat by-pass was a bent piece of 1 1/4 copper tubing. Note the exhaust stain at the carb. Also the EVIL pressure regulator for the in line electric fuel pump. The vacuum tank was inoperable and not hooked up at the time. No matter how low (I thought) I would set it it he pressure was still too high and the carb would flood. No flooding issues with my re-built vacuum tank.

 One of my other current issues.... As I said I checked the heat riser tube for holes. None found at the time. Currently there are traces of fuel leakage from the carb's upper/heat chamber.

58566922_Carbleakage.jpg.7ffa3b231b0b24b259555717ec00e538.jpg

That tells me fuel is getting into the outer heat chamber. Again both ends of the heat tube have a machined plug with muffler sealer. I have another complete riser I may have to rebuild.

Another thought that this leakage may be some form of condensation gathered in the cast iron chamber once the system is brought up to temperature. I hate these little Gremblins!

 My re-built engine still doe not run as well as I had hoped. An irratic miss has had me perplexed.

 I checked plugs, Champion long reach 89W. Plugs #s 1,2 and 6 are carbon coated while #s 3,4,5 are clean and appears normal as to firing.  I re-set valve clearances again, we shall see. As I have discussed with Hugh I checked for cross firing of the expensive new wires of the correct perriod type with the fabric covering.

365232798_Crossfirepoint.jpg.7dd9ff23e2f13ea96e070341118d7b77.jpg I removed my plug cover and home made MICARTA insulating shield and while the engine was running in a dark garage the only spark crossfiring I could detect is at the steel clip that routs all the wires side by side. All the wires looked quite busy at this point. I have since removed it and separated all the wires. I will see how things run again.

DSCF7568.JPG.c0ebfaa493e77de9fc695d416da5240b.JPG I would hate to have to set things up like this again just to keep the car running right.

 Below is a reference diagram as to the operation of our Vacuum tanks

 1506666761_Vacuum2001.JPG.be28a05ac3af0194090a8e44cde31c2c.JPG

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by dibarlaw
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Hugh -

 

I installed the round blanking disk inside the end of the small S curved pipe. Your slide shows that you installed the disk inside the housing.  The inside diameter of the housing is slightly larger than the inside diameter of the S pipe. That explains why your disk is a little larger diameter than mine. I used high heat JB Weld good for 450 deg and you used extreme high heat good for I think 2500 deg.  I should have followed your procedure exactly but I have a drill bit that fit the S pipe and not one that fit the housing.  Lesson Learned - always follow Hugh’s directions exactly!  I’ll re-due it properly when I get some new gaskets.

 

I posted a table that shows my carburetor settings compared to the Marvel and shop manual specs. They all look reasonably close except for the metering pin.  Thanks for emailing me the sketch and dimensions of your metering pin link. The total length of your link is 2.84”. The total length of mine is 2.55”. Your link no. 168-4 is the same as listed in the Marvel booklet 87.  My link doesn’t have a number on it. My pin has a number 528 stamped at the top. See pic.  What number is stamped on your pin?  Is it 518 as per the booklet?  I suspect my pin might be longer than yours since my link is shorter. What is the length of your pin?

 

I also attached a few photos of my 65-10 carburetor when I had it out.

 

Thanks,

Ken

 

 

 

 

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Edited by KEK
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Hi Larry -

 

Your engine is looking good! What clued me into finding holes in my riser pipe was the low manifold vacuum. You had to prime the car to get it started but it didn’t run smooth. Partly due to the carburetor but mostly because of the holes. After the car was warmed up if you shut it off it wouldn’t start unless primed. I had a spare Master carburetor with the heat housing that I examined and just by chance I could feel very fine corrosion when I stuck my finger inside the exhaust port of the housing and could feel the back side of the riser. With a mirror I could see tiny holes. The attach photo is the riser pipe I pressed out of the Master. I have a piece of white paper inside the pipe to make the holes visible for you.  I replaced the pipe with a piece of exhaust pipe that I got from the muffler shop.

 

After I saw the holes in the Master riser pipe it was obvious that that was my problem with the Standard carburetor. The standard riser pipe was so corroded that it collapsed when I tried to press it out.  I could not believe the car actually ran with so many holes in it!  I couldn’t find any exhaust pipe with the correct OD at the muffler shop but looking around my shop at scrape pieces of pipe I found a chain link fence post that worked. It is slightly larger ID but I don’t think that will make much of a difference. I expanded one end of the pipe and put it in the freezer overnight. The next morning I heated up the cast housing with my torch, oiled the end of the pipe, and pressed it in the housing. A nice and tight swedge fit.  How is your manifold vacuum?  If your running an original riser pipe I would be suspicious of the integrity since you tested it.

 

Your absolutely correct there is condensation inside the heat jacket.  That is what corrodes the riser pipe. Now that I think of it that may have been what I saw bubbling on the outside of my gasket thinking it wasn’t sealing properly. When I removed my carburetor to fix the H.S. Jet problem there was condensed water in the jacket. It surprised me there was that much water.

 

What is that small wire coming out of your spark plug cover?  I just got my new cloth covered wires but haven’t installed them yet.  I also ordered 90 deg. boots to fit on the end of the plug wires.  I am hoping this will prevent any cross sparking. Interesting that you are seeing sparking at the metal wire collector. Do you have rubber boots on your plugs?

 

The difference between my electric fuel pump setup and the one that you used to run is that I also have a single barrel Carter carburetor inside the vacuum canister. So the fuel pressure to the Carter should not affect the pressure from the canister to the Marvel carburetor. But something apparently is. I tried to set ithe fuel level at a depth that would give me the same fuel level as a functioning vacuum canister would. Thanks for the diagram.  It looks like to me that the fuel level is in the bottom third. If that part of the canister is at atmospheric pressure then that’s the level I need to set the Carter carb at. If that is the case I may still be 2 or 3 inches too high which could be my problem. I have parts from a couple of canisters but probably not enough for a functioning one.  I would some day like to return to the vacuum setup.  Do you know or recommend anyone that rebuilds these canisters?

 

Thanks,

Ken

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Ken:

 The thinner wire is from the coil - terminal to the distributer. All the wires were to live behind the spark plug cover.

I will have to check as to someone who will rebuild the vaccum tank. There is a rebuilder on the forum who chimes in occasionaly when someone has issues with these. I know he sets up at Hershey.

My tank had been rusted out and the bottom was covered with messy solder. I re-did the solder and then did a gas tank sealer. I picked up the rebuild kit from BOB'S . The kit only has new springs, cover gasket,2 copper crush gaskets and screws.

 I also installed a new Nitrophyl float.

 When I last checked the manifold vacuum it was about 17-18 in.vu.

Edited by dibarlaw
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Hi Larry -

 

I looked through my parts and I think I might have a nearly complete vacuum canister.  I attached some pics.  The canister has been repaired on the bottom but otherwise looks acceptable. The float mechanism moves up and down.  Comparing the top assembly to the diagram you posted it appears to be missing the ‘Vacuum check valve” and the ‘gas strainer assembly‘. I have the vent tube.  Also shown is an “atmospheric check valve’.  Looking at the pics can you see anything that is obviously missing?  I think I may be better off trying to get this vacuum canister working than fiddling around with the electric fuel pump.  Any advice on how hard to rebuild these vacuum systems and sources missing parts would be appreciated.

 

Thanks,

Ken

Edited by KEK
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Much of the components are diecast metal with pressed in pins for pivots.  Extreme care must be exercised to not break a diecast part.  lapping in the seats for the valve mechanisms is important.

 

Bob Engle

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Ken,

     The 1925 Buick Standard Marvel Carburetor is a 1 year only carburetor.  Your metering pin and metering linkage drawings are incorrect.  I have 3 of these carburetors. 

The metering pin should have only a 2 on it.  The metering link is stamped 168-4.  Attached are the 2 drawings. 

 

    Hugh

2074693562_Carburetor1925BuickStandardMeteringpin.JPG.b3a2cea474608426b957d9a9fa22755d.JPG800263460_carburetormeteringpinlink168-4.jpg.fe83b378f6086c01dc17a281214f0587.jpg

Edited by Hubert_25-25 (see edit history)
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Hi Larry -

 

I searched for vacuum tank rebuilding and found all kinds of information and procedures.  I feel I can try and restore my tank rather than send it off.  It’s not in that bad of condition.  Needs a good cleaning and a few missing parts from what I can tell at this time.  Bob makes a good point to be extra careful with the die cast metal pressed in pivot pins. I dont plan to remove them. Getting all the valves to work is probably going to be my greatest challenge.

 

I am pretty sure I figured out why my carburetor was seeing pressure from my electric fuel pump that caused my flooding issue.  Looking at the diagram of the vacuum canister you posted I noticed on the top assembly there are fittings for a vent tube and a vacuum check valve.  My tank has a plug in one of those fittings and a vent tube in the other.  I dropped the Carter carburetor that is inside my vacuum canister so the float is a couple inches from the bottom to give a fuel level similar to what is shown in the diagram for the inner tank.  I then closed my fuel valve on the bottom of the canister and turned on the electric fuel pump to fill the tank.  I then removed the plug from the fitting on top of the tank and found it was under a small amount of pressure. You could hear the air escape. Probably about the 1 psi from the fuel pump. I suspect the Marvel was also seeing about 1 psi causing the flooding. I drove the car around for about 20 minutes and no flooding issue and no gas escaping from the ‘flooder valve’.  I thought the tank was being vented because it had the vent tube but either its plugged or not working. I just moved the tube to the other fitting and no more flooding issues. I hope... I am still going to restore the vacuum fuel system but at least now I can drive the car. Well maybe not - when I got back from the test drive my newly professionally rebuild starter generator is making a bad noise. I feel I am in an endless cycle of two steps forward and one back - geez.

 

Thanks for your help in ‘sorting out’ my vacuum canister.

Ken

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