Brooklyn Beer

A 1939 Chrysler Royal electrical question

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Well as I continue to go through the old girl I can honestly say it hasn't been screwed with much. Runs great, starts great. Looks all original so far. Electrical is all intact but is scary. Rhode Island has a 12 week backlog for the new harnesses so I am just going over things.  Started under the hood checking things and as crusty and original as everything is, most everything seems working. Regulator working fine, Gen putting out required volts, etc.. But I do have some questions concerning a couple of the relays / solenoids I have found or am attempting to find. 

 

On the fire wall drivers side is the voltage regulator and below that I am thinking is the overdrive solenoid switch. Using the 1939 supplement schematic. Looked it up on line and looks like it. That is still all wired in.  Now coming forward on the drivers fender is where things get dicey and not just the crumbling wire.  I see one relay and one fused relay. The fused relay is a round dome and I have figured it to be the headlights.  Next to that and below I have a relay which is not hooked up. It has a jumper across two terminals that is not factory. Close to this relay (?) I found 2 disconnected wires. One coming from the starter and one coming from the fender loom that has a factory end. No power from each even as car running. Everything is so dirty and crusty I cannot begin to saw what colors are. Tracing that fatter wire back to the starter I am thinking this is the overdrive solenoid relay and fuse. I have not removed the cover to look for a fuse yet. The supplement for 39 doesn't show this set up on C23, so going from the c24 wiring diagram.  If anyone has a picture of how theirs is wired I would appreciate it.  I can only find those 2 wires removed and taped up. Guessing the solenoid on the trans at sometime crapped out and they just disconnected the OD. Here is what I got. From what I can come up with is the jumper is to"bypass" another switch that was not on the 6 cylinder Royals? C24 schematic shows 2 more wires leaving this relay to one.  The second picture on the firewall.   Just what is the tube type parts on the end for?

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Edited by Brooklyn Beer (see edit history)

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Both your pictured relays look to be overdrive units, missing their fuse. I know cars with B-W OD could be jumped into overdrive and then would stay there as long as ignition was switched on, useful for long highway runs.

 

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Good, at least I am going in the right direction here. Now I need to figure out why the one relay with the jumper has the wiring disconnected.  The one with the larger lead coming from the starter. That wire the end is toast with no connector.  The other wire which is more white in color was marked at one time with a paper tag but long since faded away. I would like to know what terminal these two wires attach too on that relay.

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4 hours ago, Narve N said:

Both your pictured relays look to be overdrive units, missing their fuse. I know cars with B-W OD could be jumped into overdrive and then would stay there as long as ignition was switched on, useful for long highway runs.

 

Correction to myself, thy are not necessarily missing the fuse. Checked my own stuff today and the fuse is not visible from the outside.

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This schematic helped me on the 48 Jeepster.

If its the same good. if not then not so good.

If they used the governor in 39 it should be the same.

EarlyOD-3-T.jpg

Edited by JACK M (see edit history)
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OK, removed the disconnected relay and bought a replacement as upon removal I could see parts missing / broke off/ ?  here is the back side of the replacement and the back of the old one.  Just what is the purpose of the brass piece screwed in like a light bulb socket pin connector?  Whatever that connector is at the base of that device my old one doesn't have it.s-l1600.jpg

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Jack looks different then the total wiring schematic I have from the manual and even that one shows an extra solenoid for the C24 that my C23 looks to have never been wired for.  Upon further inspection today i found a 3rd disconnected wire only this one is small and comes out of the loom at the center of the firewall with a factor eye connector on the end.  It is too short to reach any relay on the fender.  If anything it might go to the coil?  When the car is running it is powered with 6.2 volts. And concerning the coil. Mine has to be original. The main coil wire is screwed on and there is only wire connecting post showing on the front of the coil going to the distributor. Is it powered from behind? and inside the car?  It is the only reason I can think I have this wire taped off at that position on the firewall. I did not check yet if it is key powered but will after I have beer and lunch

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2 hours ago, Brooklyn Beer said:

  Just what is the purpose of the brass piece screwed in like a light bulb socket pin connector?  Whatever that connector is at the base of that device my old one doesn't have it.

 

That's where you insert the fuse, the top brass piece can be taken off to place a glass fuse inside.

Edited by Narve N (see edit history)
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Glad i bought a new one.  Under the car today doing the trans oil and see another wire hanging below the starter with a big eye on it and another wire heading north towards the relay/solenoid on the firewall. I am guessing this is supposed to be attached to the starter (which post?) with the other wire to the relay. (Which terminal?)

 

The wiring for this thing even though intact is a freaken nightmare with everything now the same color.  Still trying to find out the reason for the jumper

 

Edited by Brooklyn Beer (see edit history)

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Looks to me the jumper was put in place to bypass the fuse. Am now guessing the power for the relay comes from the starter onto that terminal. Somehow the gas tank is supposed to work off this and a wire from the distributor

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Found out the "key hot" wire coming out of the loom near the firewall is for the automatic choke.  The choke is "semi functioning" when powered up but gets so hot so quickly I can see why they removed it. Being it is summer here I will leave that alone for now as the car starts fantastic without any choke. Also that these automatic chokes are like gold and a simple pull cable for 12 bucks instead 150 bucks for an NOS auto choke seems like a better deal.

Edited by Brooklyn Beer (see edit history)

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AH HA !  way in the back of supplemental for 1939 is the correct wiring diagram.  Now I know I am missing the solenoid switch and have no idea where it goes.  Paragraph also explains the kick down procedure. I have to find out where the small wire going to the distributor has been terminated because it is still attached to the solenoid on the trans.  Someone had sliced the wire from the starter together with the larger wire from the solenoid as well. Guessing all this was done with the jumper in an attempt to bypassing the failed relay. Well I have a nos relay coming. Need to find the switch and if it goes on a bracket near the carb or works off the gas pedal?

 

Really could use a picture of this relay wired up. 

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It is also a matter of terminology here, but I believe your solenoid switch is the one encircled, and which I call the kickdown-switch. Which it actually is, and it never worked on this car. 1940 Chrysler NewYorker Business Coupe (anyone seen another?).

 

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Yes, that is the elusive kick down / solenoid switch. Now I know where to start looking for mine. So far though everything that has been disconnected still has the original wiring with taped over ends. Yesterday when I was changing the oil and trans oil I was able to find the other wire coming from the trans solenoid that is supposed to connect to the distributor.  So I have all the wiring. I was looking for that switch near the carb, So if yours has never been working I am to assume that it has nothing to do with the car going into Over Drive?  It is strictly a mechanical feature with the switch disengaging it when getting to a hill and the gas pedal going past a certain point ?  Took the old girl out yesterday and think I was getting into over drive by following the procedure of getting up to speed in second, releasing the gas for a special, and then shifting into third. But driving on "mai-pops" I was not going to push the car past 40. Still want to repack the drivers side wheel bearings after doing a brake adjustment and repacking on the passenger side. Looked like still had the old "GAA" type grease in it and in good shape. Just a little thin.  So on the list of things for today is:

 

Flush the motor, change the thermostat as the car is running 190+ after 12 miles in 86 degree weather.  Refill with straight Evapo-rust for the summer. Change plug wires, cap, rotor, condenser, and clean points. Still have an every once in a while slight miss at idle.    

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