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How many members supports class #37


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Who in the AACA come up with class #37?

I can not understand why any one in the AACA would support this.

Most of us likes modified-street rods but they have no place in the AACA.

No more than we would take our cars to a good guys show, each one has its

own place in car clubs. If the purpose is to raise membership,how many

members will we lose. Any officer of the AACA who supports this should resign

and fine ther place in some other club.

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That's right Teddy. I've seen a lot of antiquers at Good Guy shows. As a matter of fact, most people would probably be surprised at the number of people in the AACA that actually have street rods or hot rods. It's ok to like more than one type of vehicle, isn't it? I attended the first Sentimental Tour, my first tour, a couple of years ago, and in conversing with different people attending, I was surprised that a number of them had pictures of their rods in their billfolds. One of them is a prominent member in our club. As far as class 37, I guess you'll just have to wait and see what happens. The class isn't etched in stone yet. By the way, that person with the modified car was not Earl Beauchamp. He'll be glad to hear that! grin.gif Wayne

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I never heard of the creation of Class 37 until it was a done deal. I didn't want it then and I don't want it now but the "Powers That Be" agreed and now we have it! On the other hand, I was one of the 900+ petitioners to change the voting for 5 of 7 directors, a proposal that was declined. Something most of us didn't know about or maybe didn't want was approved while something many of us wanted was tossed out. Can you say "Good Old Boys"?

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I'm looking forward to seeing class 37 and will help in any way to make it a sucess. I took our stone stock 1912 T Touring on a Rod Run years ago, even got it in Street Scene the NSRA monthly. Joined Goodguys this past year, have a AACA Certified Lyndwood rail. I have a darn good knowledge of automotive history, and Hot Rods are part of it. HOT RODS and Street Rods are two different vehicles, don't try to mix apples and oranges. There are plenty of cars I have zero interest in, they are the ones I walk by.

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I understood class 37 to encompass documented historic Hot Rods that were built no later than 1974, from pre-1949 cars... period. If that is the definition of the class, I support it. If the loose interpretations of the class that I have been reading lately are accurate, I do not support it.

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As it has been officialy described, I'm for it also. It is really not any difference the the race car class. A lot of the race cars shown are street rods that were raced.

Jim...

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The following paragraph comes from the AACA web pages and describes the purpose of the AACA

The Antique Automobile Club of America, founded in 1935, is the world's largest automotive historical society with over 60,000 members and 400 regional clubs worldwide. The AACA is dedicated to perpetuating the memories of early automobiles by encouraging their history, collection and use.

The purpose of the club is to encourage interest in the history, collection and use of old cars. I have two Metropolitans that I show at AACA shows, one with a First Jr and one with 3 AGNM Seconds. Although I?ve done my best within the confines of my wallet, these cars are not perfect but they are as close to the way they came from the dealer as I can make them. To further make my position clear, a few years ago I bought a Studebaker Speedster basket case because I heard the owner was going to tub it out and make it a hot rod. Making cars correct is what most of the people in the AACA are into and many agree that people who cut up old cars should be shot. But remember, the purpose of the club is to perpetuate the memory of old cars, collect them, encourage the preservation of their history and use them.

AACA has a judging system that encourages perfect cars, and that?s what we are getting. AACA shows, especially the AGNM show, is a traveling museum and I?m proud to be a part of it.

I don?t know how many AACA tour cars are also shown competitively at meets, but I?ll bet it is hard for someone with a convertible to win a prize if they put their top down and spend a sunny Sunday on the road. Even if they spent hours cleaning it up they would lose a point or two for a wrinkled top, paint dings, rusty exhaust manifolds and a little oil around valve cover gaskets. Your typical AGNM meet has 450 cars and about 430 covered trailers. People don?t ?use? cars and win prizes at AGNM shows yet encouraging the use of antique cars is one of the charters of the club. So which is it? Do we encourage the use of antique cars or do we encourage the reconstruction of museum pieces? AACA members can have both kinds of cars, the museum pieces and the antique cars we ?use?. Some are lucky enough to have both. There is room for many kinds of antiques in the club as we encourage members to participate in tours and to bring cars we ?use? and museum pieces to some shows.

I recently went through the Northeast Classic Car Museum in Norwich, NY. If you?re in upstate New York, make the trip to see the Franklins, Dusenburgs and other really fine cars on display. You won?t be disappointed. In the back room, separated from the other cars, is a collection of Hot Rods. You don?t have to go back there if you don?t want to because you may be shocked at what people have done. Someone bought a 32 Ford, took off the fenders and hood, changed the seats and put in a 49 Cadillac V8. And they did it in 1950. The display also points out that there are more 32 Fords on the road today than Ford built. You may not like it, but this car certainly encouraged the production of something. I may have my opinions of what both individuals and Detroit are doing today, and I may not appreciate the history, but I can not deny what has already taken place.

Class 37 allows that documented authentic antique hot rods can be displayed at some shows. There is no reason to judge them and the club will not be glorifying them any more than it is encouraging the reproduction of Mets. You can find pioneering history in lots of cars, even a Met, one of the first cars to have the headlights above the top of the hood and one of first throw away imports. A 32 Ford roadster built 50 years ago is a pioneering automobile influencing what people did with cars ever since and if documented properly is a part of automotive history. 25 years from now are we going to allow a Plymouth Prowler at a show and exclude the antique roadster that inspired it?

Remember, the purpose of the club is to perpetuate the memory of early automobiles by encouraging their history, collection and use. It is not the exclusive charter of the AACA to preserve every old car out there. The people who object to class 37 probably don?t have a Hemmings abandonded car calendar. Its my opinion that a 32 Ford turned into a hot rod in 1950 that has survived as a museum piece is probably more significant to the history of automobiles and will perpetuate the memory of old cars and generate more interest in antique autos than a 57 Nash. We should not let the judging and preservation part of AACA overshadow other things the club should be doing, perpetuating the memories of early automobiles by encouraging their history, collection and use.

Just like we can make a place in AACA for museum pieces that are not used every day, I think there is a place for genuine antique hot rods. Put me down in favor of class 37.

Bill Clark

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Bill, Thank you for a well thought out and well writen post. You really have an understanding of what Class 37 is all about. I still have the first issue of Hot Rod Magazine I bought in July of 1961, there were no "Antique" car magazines available at a newstand at that time. Modified cars were the first link to this hobby for many people who went on to restore cars. I know restored Hot Rods sounds strange, but I look forward to seing some of the original survivors.

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I agree that Bill has what I hope is a good handle on what Class 37 should be about. As such I see it as (theoretically) a tremendous boost to organization and a means by which to help preserve many modified cars that would otherwise just be re-hotrodded ad infinitum. <span style="font-style: italic">However...</span>

As I pointed out in the thread on this subject in the R&R section, it is very easy to forsee huge headaches with the practical implementation of the class. I forsee, on one hand, the potential for rampant fraud in the documentation of hot rods (which are not exactly known for their unique immutable character and detailed histories). On the other hand I believe that if a particularly litigious hot rod owner is denied the AACA's blessing on his purchase/creation/baby,... eek.gif well let's just say the criteria for the class had <span style="font-style: italic">better</span> be <span style="font-weight: bold">very</span> specific, detailed, objective <span style="font-style: italic">and</span> enforceable! I'm glad it isn't my job to define and enforce this class. lynchstill.gif

Therefore, I must sit on the fence on the Class 37 question until <span style="font-style: italic"> <span style="font-weight: bold">all</span> </span> the definitive information is in. It will be an interesting and harmonious addition, <span style="font-style: italic"> <span style="font-weight: bold">if</span> </span> these questions are fully addressed in the class's requirements.

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To answer RLCJ's question, count me as one member who does NOT support class 37.

This class has a sliding 25 year and older clause meaning pre-1949 antique cars removed from the dwindling pool of survivors today can be shown as hot rods in 25 years. This is in no way preserving automotive history--to destroy one surviving form of history to create a fake and fraud (I believe 1937hd45 used these terms on another discussion) of another form and then show it in 25 years as representing automotive history.

As you will see in my question posed on the "Judging" forum, we already have a Hershey First Senior Dodge from 1970s now being hot rodded by the new owner. If it can be shown in 25 years, what, exactly, sort of "automotive history" is the AACA defining here?

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JB-ed is right about the sliding qualification criteria issue. I posted my felings on that in the the R&R section. I said there that I think if the allowable modification period were fixed to a period of <span style="font-style: italic">no more</span> than 25 years after the car's construction (personally I'd prefer 20), then there would be no danger of the AACA re-sanctifying modifications that were antithetical to it at the time of the modification.

I think this point is especially important if later cars (after 1949) are to be admitted, which I feel is a near-certainty if the class is a success.

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Class 37 is designed for Certified Hot Rods from the past, a car that can be proven to be the actual car, NOT a copy or fake lookalike. There was only ONE "Beach Boys" coupe on the cover of Hot Rod July 1961. If one or a dozen copies try to apply to AACA for certification they will be turned down whether they were built in 1962, or 2002. Class 37 is for Hot Rods NOT Street Rods!!!!

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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> There was only ONE "Beach Boys" coupe on the cover of Hot Rod July 1961. If one or a dozen copies try to apply to AACA for certification they will be turned down whether they were built in 1962, or 2002. </div></div>

Yes, but then what! lynchstill.gifEVILLE.gifeek.gif

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1937hd45--I must be missing something in the definition of class 37. (I posted on the R&R thread the version that was sent to me). Because I see nothing about "only cars on magazine covers will qualify" etc., which several people keep citing to claim that Class 37 will not be destructive. But my reading of 37 says no such thing. Please provide some documentation to explain what you mean, because as I read and re-read my version of 37, it just says, "hot rod today, show in 25 years."

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Since the start of this discussion I've tried to explain that there are Hot Rods and Street Rods. If you can't tell the differance, I'm sorry, all art must look the same to you as well. Some good news though, unlike EVERY OTHER class in AACA Class 37 will have one very important feature shared with the Horseless Carriage Club of America, and the Classic Car Club of America. Anyone want to guess what that is?

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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I've tried to explain that there are Hot Rods and Street Rods. If you can't tell the differance, I'm sorry, all art must look the same to you as well. </div></div>

Well, from 100megsfree4.com Dictionary of Automotive Terms :

[color:\\"red\\"] " <span style="font-weight: bold">hot rod</span>:

A production car that has been modified by the owner in the attempt to increase acceleration and top end speed. [color:\\"green\\"] Although the term can be applied to any modified car, it is [color:\\"red\\"] <span style="font-style: italic">usually</span> reserved for vehicles produced from 1930 to 1940's. Typically the engine is modified, and some body panels removed. Many were painted with a design of flames behind the front wheels to give the appearance that this vehicle was "hot" -- thus the name.

And:

[color:\\"red\\"] <span style="font-weight: bold">street rod</span>: [color:"green"]

A slightly modified rod (car) that will give good day-to-day performance on the streets.

I can't see how those two groups would overlap in <span style="font-style: italic">any</span> way, can you? tongue.gifrolleyes.gif

Distinctions are often a matter of perspective. Perspective is often a matter of experience. Experience is often a matter of mistakes made. It's rare when any group of people can share all.

Expect conflict!

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Well, Dave was on the right track. Class 37 is for Certified HOT RODS, a street rod will never be seen on an AACA National Meet show field. Class 37 will be the ONLY class in AACA with a cut off year, somewhere mid 1960's I believe. If the car was built as a HOT ROD before this cut off date it could go through the Certifiacaton process, if it passes it could be shown. If it was built after this cut off it is a NEVER SHOW. Personally I have never been a big fan of the wait 25 years and it's an "Antique" policy, I'm glad to see this cut off year in class 37.

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Bob ~ This is not intended to be arguementative, only a statement of fact, honest.

Never say NEVER. This class was created with the stroke of a pen by the AACA Board of Directors. It can be changed by another stroke of another pen by another Board. Street Rods COULD be admitted in the future. Cut off years COULD be moved forward in the future. In no more than 15 years no members of the Board that voted to create class 37 will be AACA Board members. Future Boards could have totally different ideas. It only takes a simple majority [11 votes] to make a change.

Who knows, some future Board might even let us vote for fewer than 7 names on the ballot. Nothing is forever.

hvs

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Point taken Howard. I just don't see any reason why a street rod would ever make it to the AACA show field. The true early "Certified" HOT ROD is a different vehicle all together. These were handcrafted for the most part before any aftermarket parts industry started. Wayne, the "Certification" process starts long before the vehicle hits the show field. This is done by a commettee of knowledgeable people both in the Race Vehicle (class 24) and now HOT ROD (class 37) classes, once "Certified" it is up to the field judges to score the vehicle.

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Ok, Bob! Maybe I should have stated that, and I'm assuming this, when the vehicle shows up at the show field with "certification in hand", it will be interesting to be there for the first show. And, how do you certify the vehicle without seeing it. Does the committee travel all over the country chasing these cars down? I wouldn't think so. And, Howard, I'm going to state right now that if I would ever be a committee member, I would never vote to allow a street rod in the AACA. I love street rods and hot rods, but street rods belong on the "street" or at rod shows. Certified "hot rods" are to me "historic" just as our antiques are, only in a different way. I would hope that the high-tech "billet" type hot rod would never be allowed in our club in the future. But then, we have to deal with young people when we talk about the future, and we better be able to communicate very well with them or their ideas will take over ours. Is that bad or not? You tell me! Wayne

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The definition of the Class 37 has a 25 year old cut-off date. Where are people getting all these "1960s" etc. cutoffs? We will get modern creations as that 25 year cut off moves forward. A surviving pre-1949 antique car rodded in 2003 will show and be judged in 2027 by my simple math.

More importantly, if this is one of several pathetic attempts to attract "young people" to AACA, then the "pre-1949" cut off is worthless, as the vast majority of the "next generation" is not interested in them. From a market study I have here these "pre-49s" are called "cartoon cars" by the kids now in some regions of the country. They are going after the 60s and 70s cars, which we patently exclude in Class 37. Please see the November 14, 2002, issue of Rolling Stone magazine where the "Cool Cars of the Stars" are featured. One star, "Slash" has a 36 Ford chopped V-8, among a stable of more modern cars. He says he has had that car "way too long" and it is "stored in his mother-in-law's garage." Other cars owned by the "stars", those modified, are 60s and 70s cars or Bentleys and Humvees. That's what's cool now and will be "historic" and nostalgic, I suppose, in 25 years.

This "pre-1949" date with 25 year sliding cut off is obviously to appeal to the baby boomers, maybe to boost the hot-rod industry's market for a few more years, and is a ill conceived in the most flattering context I can apply.

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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Class 37 is for Certified HOT RODS, a street rod will never be seen on an AACA National Meet show field. </div></div>

Bob, read those two definitions I cut and pasted again. The distinction between street rod and hot rod is <span style="font-style: italic">so</span> thin so as to be non-existant. It's not as if hot rods weren't streetable vehicles, especially in the late 40's/early 50's era. Look at any photo essay of early Bonneville races, There are <span style="font-style: italic">no</span> car trailers. Those guys drove the rod to the race.

Also you can't exactly discern the groups based strictly on appearance. Many hot rods had fenders (at least part of the time), and many street rodders/Saturday night cruisers dispensed with their fenders years ago. There were some very sharp looking cars in the hot rod scene, and street rods can be so emulative of the classic flat black '32 hot rod that you'd need to check spring rates and carb venturis to tell them apart (as if that'd work).

Unless the AACA is going to require proof of a NHRA or some other competition history (which would make every bracket-raced Corvair a potential hot rod), then there is only one way to discern hot rods from street rods:

If 2 big block '46 Plymouths start out from a traffic light, which one is the street rod?

[color:\\"red\\"] <span style="font-weight: bold">The Loser!</span>

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Dave, You have an understanding of what we are discussing, many readers don't, so I'll try to define a Hot Rod. Class 37 will display cars with pre 1949 bodies, that were rebuilt/redesigned before a cutoff date in the early 1960's. I don't know what this date is but there will be a cut off. Makes since, STREET ROD was a term born in the 1960's when after market parts and kits became readily available. Class 37 will be hand built Hot Rods, if the car did race at the Dry Lakes/Bonneville or Drags and can be proven to be that car then it would be in class 24A with the other race cars. Class 37 will be Hot Rods built as daily transportation and or show cars. I think there will be more high end cars in this class than pooly built ones. The good ones survived, lesser ones were rebuilt.........some may have been restored!

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I keep reproducing the text from the definition of the Class 37 on these various discussions under different topics. It appears at least in two other places on this forum now. The significant sentence is:

"Historical Hot Rods will be defined as a vehicle with pre-1949 body and a reconstruction date of 25 years or older. The year of construction has to contain a majority of parts that were available during that year."

Key here is "25 years or older."

Q.E.D.

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You are reprinting INCORECT INFORMATION!!!!!!!!!!!! The cut off date for a HOT ROD in class 37 will be early to mid 1960's. The historical Hot Rod era died at that time, there is no interest in having STREET RODS in AACA Nation Meets. Cars in class 37 will have to be "Certified" just as every vehicle in class 24.

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