Nolan Walker

Is it better to buy a used car compared to a new car?

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2 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:

 

They'll probably send them to Mannheim or Adesa to wholesale to dealers, and it'll still be regional so all the cars won't be dumped in one place for one auction. In fact, I just mentioned to Melanie last week that we should start paying attention to our Mannheim inventory alerts because of Hertz going belly-up. A new tow vehicle or a replacement for my Cadillac CTS wagon for a discounted wholesale price? Nice.

Last time this happened (having an insane amount of late model used cars sitting around)  I was a wholesaler for Enterprise, so I know how all of this works.   Nothing was selling, so the manufacturers sold them back to rental car companies for pennies on the dollar.  Companies like Enterprise (who purchase their cars outright) get them so cheap (so cheap most people wouldn’t believe it) when new that they really don’t lose anything when the market is flooded-they just don’t make as much.  Companies like Hertz lease most of their cars, so this will be manufacturers selling them.  Companies like Enterprise will be able to name their price.

 

That said, Hertz is obviously a big player, one of the biggest) and they’ve been run so bad that they have lost money for a few years now, so there are fewer companies that can absorb tens of thousands of cars.  

 

I have said for years that there are more new cars manufactured that we can possibly responsibly consume.   
 

 

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7 hours ago, Nolan Walker said:


Hello Guys,
I am from New jersey and I would like to know your opinions about buy a used car compared to a new car, which one is best option.So please suggest me. I read a couple of blogs on used, so just checking on it.


There are very few reasons to ever buy a new car.

 

1.  You have money to burn and feel good about supporting the economy.

2.  You are buying something like a C8 Corvette or new Ford GT40, because you can.

 

That’s about it really. 
 

Certified used cars come with better warranties.  Even older used cars are priced so much better.

 

 

 

 

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Well have always been a contrarian and have bought more than a few "lemons" (Vega GTs and Astre - key is to buy with AC, they got a real radiator). That is because both enjoy working on them and have the equipment to do so.

 

For limited income friends who are not mechanically ept I recommend name cars coming off lease. Most do not care about the number of doors so selection is wide.

Orlando being the rent-car capital of the world, times should be interesting. Most dealers have full lots already and I see a lot of "bring it to your home" advts.

 

So the environment is already "interesting" and if Hertz dumps it will be unimaginable.

 

Am kinda sorta almost looking for one of two specific cars, a C5 Corvette or a Caddy XLR & occasionally check out FaceBook Marketplace/Craigslist/Autotrader/Gurus and despite quite a wide selection (target rich) have seen little price erosion as yet. Of course this is asking and not selling prices (which from the listing ages.

 

Just curious when those closely watching the market expect that major price drop to occur. Soon or off a aways ? YWTK

 

 

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Someone has to buy a new car so that there are used cars.  Yes, there are ways to make used cars from dealer demo units and the like.  I usually bought new cars at the end of the current model year or as leftovers when the next model year is out.  I did buy used too, primarily when buying a second vehicle like a pickup truck that was used for work or transporting friends purchases.  When you are the only pickup in the neighborhood you have lots of “friend requests” long before Facebook made that phrase famous.

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39 minutes ago, Matt Harwood said:

 

Correct. And while that incident really pissed me off and damaged my hand (maybe permanently), it didn't stop the car from driving me to work every day. Gas, oil, four wheel bearings, and that goddamned tailgate over the course of 10 years and 130,000 miles. That's probably par for the course for any late-model car these days. I find that acceptable, even though Cadillac and I are currently litigating and I probably won't ever buy another one of their cars.

You're a very lucky man!  Your experience with that car is nothing short of remarkable but again you're talking about a car that's 10 yrs old. Increase in tech/parts content just in the last 5 yrs alone have made exactly what you're describing a near statistical impossibility. It would be great to own a new car for 10 yrs problem free but reliability metrics don't lie.   

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1 hour ago, 39BuickEight said:


There are very few reasons to ever buy a new car.

 

1.  You have money to burn and feel good about supporting the economy.

2.  You are buying something like a C8 Corvette or new Ford GT40, because you can.

 

That’s about it really. 
 

Certified used cars come with better warranties.  Even older used cars are priced so much better.

 

 

 

 

Or you live in the Northeast and everything used is rusted.   Then of course I still buy used but from several states south of here and have it shipped. 

 

Let me know when the Saturn Sky redlines tank.  They seem to be holding close to 10 G and up for a nice one, though book seems to say less. Have yet to see may advertised in book range without High mileage or some other issue. 

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11 minutes ago, auburnseeker said:

Or you live in the Northeast and everything used is rusted.   Then of course I still buy used but from several states south of here and have it shipped. 

 

Let me know when the Saturn Sky redlines tank.  They seem to be holding close to 10 G and up for a nice one, though book seems to say less. Have yet to see may advertised in book range without High mileage or some other issue. 

 

Book value on the Skys is not in the right realm. We've sold multiple low-mileage Skys and they routinely bring high-teens, low-$20s. I have a 15K mile black-on-black Redline right now and it's VERY popular at $20K and probably won't last long. And even at that price, I think they're one hell of a big bang for the buck. Really fun little cars with surprising power. I don't know how the book calculates their value at $8000, but that's way off. Maybe something to do with the lease rates and buybacks when they were new.

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Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, auburnseeker said:

Or you live in the Northeast and everything used is rusted.   Then of course I still buy used but from several states south of here and have it shipped. 

 

Let me know when the Saturn Sky redlines tank.  They seem to be holding close to 10 G and up for a nice one, though book seems to say less. Have yet to see may advertised in book range without High mileage or some other issue. 

 

I've always had a thing for a Mallet Sky.  They look so much better than the Solstice.  $25,500 when a regular Sky is $15,000+ anyway.

 

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2007-saturn-mallett-v8-sky/

Edited by 39BuickEight (see edit history)

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2 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:

 

Book value on the Skys is not in the right realm. We've sold multiple low-mileage Skys and they routinely bring high-teens, low-$20s. I have a 15K mile black-on-black Redline right now and it's VERY popular at $20K and probably won't last long. And even at that price, I think they're one hell of a big bang for the buck. Really fun little cars with surprising power. I don't know how the book calculates their value at $8000, but that's way off. Maybe something to do with the lease rates and buybacks when they were new.

I've never ridden in or driven one but I figured they were a nice package for the money.  Good looks for the time,  from what I have heard corvette like performance, A solid fairly common drivetrain, so parts should be reasonable but they really don't seem to need much as they are riding on very proven components and from what I see just different enough you most likely aren't going to pass another on the road.  The flip nose looks handy for working on them as well.

Of course I want a stick as well so that eliminates about half of them. 

So I guess they are at the bottom of the curve and if I wait much longer I will be paying more?  I don't want a white, red or Yellow one and I'm not crazy about the two tone interior.  Boy now I'm getting picky. 

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Have had two issues with Solstice/Sky : 4 cyl engines and cloth tops. That said I was sort of in line before they came out and were talking about a V6 and then it went turbo-4 instead. Just personal preference.

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I probably wouldn't have the top up much like my other convertibles,  spring and fall for storage.  I heard the turbo 4 is pretty good in them.  Again nice thing is it's an off the shelf engine shared amongst the fleet so not being exotic is a big advantage when it's time for repairs. 

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That turbocharged-4 makes 260 horsepower and 320 pounds of torque in a rear-wheel-drive chassis that barely weighs 3000 pounds. The Saturn is a little heavier and a little softer than the Solstice, but the Solstice is so ugly that I'm OK with the slight loss of performance in the Sky. The last one I had walked a late-model Mustang GT pretty hard and the guy behind the wheel stopped me to ask what was in it thinking it was modified. Nope. I think that's part of it--everyone underestimates it thinking it's just a cute little car like a Miata. I'll wager that little 4-cylinder will suck the headlights out of anything this side of a C6 Corvette...

 

I, for one, really like them and think they're probably the biggest bang for the buck if you want a 2-seat sports car. 

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I liked the styling first but once I heard about the performance of the redline that sold it.  Now I just have to let the moths fly free if i find the right one. 

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21 hours ago, TerryB said:

Someone has to buy a new car

 

So they can go through life says "drives like new" and know what they are talking about.

 

A mix of both is just fine, but if you want a conversation it seems to require the extremes.

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22 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:

 

Book value on the Skys is not in the right realm. We've sold multiple low-mileage Skys and they routinely bring high-teens, low-$20s. I have a 15K mile black-on-black Redline right now and it's VERY popular at $20K and probably won't last long. And even at that price, I think they're one hell of a big bang for the buck. Really fun little cars with surprising power. I don't know how the book calculates their value at $8000, but that's way off. Maybe something to do with the lease rates and buybacks when they were new.


 

Matt......to show you what a dinosaur I am, I have no idea what the car your talking about looks like. That’s how pre war car I am.

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What does that depreciation thump cost when you cross the dealership lot in a new car?

 

 

Bob

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Posted (edited)
22 hours ago, 1937hd45 said:

What does that depreciation thump cost when you cross the dealership lot in a new car?

 

 

Bob

Probably lot less than on vast majority of antique/classic/vintage cars, especially those purchased as “projects”, most of which usually will never be finished, let alone extensively driven by those who initially buy (or hoard) them as such.

I’ve said it before, back yards, barns, driveways, fields, garages and storage facilities around the globe are littered with millions of these sad realities.
At least vast majority of new car buyers get their money’s worth of use out of them to offset that depreciation.

 

For example, I bought a new truck almost exactly 3 years ago fully financing it w/0%. As of today, I owe less than 2/3 of its current (perceived) resale value, but that is somewhat irrelevant as I’m intending to keep/use it long past the day it’s paid off, hopefully another half a decade or more.

My previous daily, which I also bought new with same finance terms, I kept for 7 years and sold it for 1/3 of its original purchase price.

Same with one before it, except sold to replace it in little over 6 years.

One before that I bought used (4 years old, 20K miles, like new, paid cash) for less than 1/2 price and kept/used it for about 14 years & nearly 250K miles (I overhauled the engine & trans at +/-180K miles).

 

Main reason I’ve been choosing periodically to buy new for 15+ years is that I work on rebuilding/restoring vintage cars and their components every day and last thing I wish to deal with is some concerns or issues with my (or wife’s) daily driver and I definitely don't want to work or do repairs on one.  

Besides, I view daily drivers same as any other life's consumables or necessities (food, housing, etc), nothing more, nothing less.

 

Edited by TTR (see edit history)
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I think used cars are the way to go, from a buyer's perspective. In some ways, the price of a vehicle hasn't changed compared to forty years ago ...even when you don't take inflation into account! You just have to be willing to buy used.

 

Here's my argument: About forty years ago, you could buy a brand new typical American full size car for 5500 -7000 bucks. And what was the lifespan of that car in miles back then? About 100k to 120k miles, with decent care. Some people got more miles than that before major overhaul work was needed, to be sure, but my brother bought a brand new '74 Maverick that was a piece of junk by 65k miles, so it worked both ways. And what was the lifespan of a car in years back then? Many were rusted out (up north here) within 15 years.

 

So compare that to the 2005 Impala I bought my son a couple of years ago. It had 89K miles on it at the time, and we paid 5000 plus another 1000 for brakes (from the dealer we bought it from.) It also needed wheel bearings and steering work since the purchase, which will bring the cost to over maybe 7500. What will be the lifespan in miles from here on out? I don't think that another 100k miles is unrealistic. 200K should be very doable for a car like this. And what will be the lifespan in years from here on out?  I'd say the car will have less rust on it after 30 years than a late 1970's car would have after 15 years (due to the Impala's plastic body panels and more advanced rust protection.) 

 

In other words, it's kind of like we bought a brand new late 70's car for about the same amount that a brand new car cost in the late 1970's/early 1980's...not adjusted for inflation.

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Posted (edited)
On 5/13/2020 at 10:09 AM, 39BuickEight said:

I have said for years that there are more new cars manufactured that we can possibly responsibly consume.   

I don't think "responsible consumption" in general has been part of American lifestyle lexicon for many, many decades any more, or longer. 🙄

Edited by TTR (see edit history)
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Talk of the Solstice/Sky without being specific is like comparing a Boss 9 to a 302 2bbl. In this case there were two engines available, the 2.4 l NA Ecotec and a 2.0 turbo. The difference is a Whole Bunch.

The most desirable is the GTP Turbo with manual trans (bolt on 325 hp) and removable hardtop. And then there is the base with automatic. I would not be surprised to see $10k difference.

 

 

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On 5/13/2020 at 12:27 PM, Matt Harwood said:

 

Correct. And while that incident really pissed me off and damaged my hand (maybe permanently), it didn't stop the car from driving me to work every day. Gas, oil, four wheel bearings, and that goddamned tailgate over the course of 10 years and 130,000 miles. That's probably par for the course for any late-model car these days. I find that acceptable, even though Cadillac and I are currently litigating and I probably won't ever buy another one of their cars.

Get rid of the Cadi before the timing chains and components start to rattle. That's the end of the 3.6 engines. Nice looking car, but too many glitches as the miles pile up!

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So how do you find out about these possible sales or qualify if it goes down? Gotta have a connection or its an open sale?

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21 minutes ago, deaddds said:

So how do you find out about these possible sales or qualify if it goes down? Gotta have a connection or its an open sale?

If the Hertz cars go to auction it might be at an automobile dealer only auction house.  I live about 5 miles from Manheim Auto Auction, one of the biggest auction houses around.  You must be a licensed dealer to buy cars at their auctions.  Almost every retired guy in our area works driving cars for the auction.  They have more autos sitting around waiting to get sold than you could ever imagine being in one place.

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