29 Chandler

1914 Chandler Engine Pan

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Doing some regular maintenance on my 1914 Chandler Light Weight Six. The engine pan is an enormous 40" long aluminum casting. I have cleaned the entire pan and now sealed the inside with Glyptal and sealed the outside with POR-15 aluminum engine paint. Now before I put the pan back on I figure that now is a good time to inspect the bottom end. A little background here on this particular car. From new it has about 16k miles. The previous owner restored the car in 1960. I don't believe much has been done since then except tours and routine maintenance. My goal is to clean it up and seal the pan to try and prevent oil seepage.

 

When I dropped the pan the oil in the pan was in pretty good condition. I expected a lot of sludge, but was happy there was not much. Aside from some old gasket material I did not find any traces of metal in the pan. I have looked at the cylinder walls and all are smooth with no scoring, yeah! It was suggested that I check the rod journals while I have the pan off. On initial inspection each has a bit of movement fore and aft on the crank.

 

Before the pan was removed the engine was running smooth and quiet. I took the family for a 30 mile drive around town before I started the tear down for the pan cleanup. What should I check before putting the pan back on on the bottom end?

 

Here are some picture of the project so far:

 

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Benefits of AACA Membership.

A few more pictures. Chandler used three imported chains to drive the cam, generator, water pump/magneto. Hope I never have to replace those.

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Posted (edited)

I think the rods on all engine require some side clearance.  How much is the question.  On the Dodge 4 it's 0.010".  The only way to check condition of the crank journals and rod babbit is to unbolt the rod cap.  You can then get a good visual of them and using plastigage, you can check the clearance is.  If you can't find specs on what the clearance should be for that engine, 0.001" total clearance per inch of journal diameter is standard practice.  On 'modern' (bearing insert) engines you typically want 0.001 - 0.002".   That is a nice oil pan, by the way!

Edited by MikeC5 (see edit history)

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Thanks for the reply Mike. I did check the side clearance on them and all where 0.003 tp 0.005.  Got the pan back on and oil back in this week. Car started right up. The previous owner had added an oil pressure gauge that seemed to work most of the time with a box of 5 psi at times. We really never knew how much oil pressure to expect as the owners manual does not give a rating. After the engine warmed up we saw between 3 and 10 psi on the gauge depending on engine speed. So thankful that we took off the engine pan and cleaned it out!

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Chris,

Show us a picture of your oil pump.

There may be a way to "shim" it to get you a bit more pressure.

I'm guessing she's a babbit motor, and if so there should be shims on each side of the bearings.

DON'T mess with them, till you get some "plastigage" Like MikeC5 says.

 

Mike in Colorado

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No babbit here. This is a pressure feed and dip system and meant to be run with very low pressure, In fact for the driver there was no gauge or sight glass for you to use. To check for oil flow you were expected to open the hood and look at the small sight glass on the side of the block.  The added gauge is a nice add on. I am replacing the modern gauge with one from a Chandler of the 1920's. Still modern for the car.

 

Here is the difference in the oil pump before and after.

Quite a difference, you can see through the screen now.

 

We have had the car for about a year now and it has always run very well, a testament to the previous owner who cared for it for almost 60 years.

 

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I guess the bearings could be something other than babbit but I doubt it.  Babbit is a generic term for a metal alloy used for 'plain' or friction bearings.  The alloy varies by application, shaft rotating speed, load, etc. It is heated to melting and cast in place for crankshaft, connecting rod, cam bearings, etc. After casting, the babbit is machined precisely to fit the journals of the crankshaft.  It wasn't until after WWII that manufacturers began using 'insert' bearings (which still have a thin layer of babbit on the shaft contact surface).  A low pressure oil system like you describe probably still relies on splash or drip lubrication.  That little pointy thing with the hole at the bottom of the connecting rods in your photo sure looks like an oil dipper. This low pressure type of system was used on the early Dodge Brothers engines (the oil pressure gauge goes from 0 to 4 psi) and the oil pump delivers oil to an oil galley in the block and from there it drips onto the crankshaft bearings.  The rods rely on splash lubrication.  I did a quick bit of googling but could not dig up when the first true pressurized oil system was used in automobiles.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babbitt_(alloy)#Traditional_Babbitt_bearings

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MikeC5 thanks for your added information.

 

I wanted to double-check my facts as I don't want to spread any false information about this engine. I finally found a line in one of the the original brochures that refers to the crankshaft bearings like this "Liberal sized bearings of white bronze." The men who designed and built the Chandler car were a group of seven men (executives) who worked for Lozier. They knew how to make well built luxury motor cars, but at Lozier they were not allowed to make a mid-priced car that could compete on a grander scale in the market. The Lozier Model 77 is what my car was modeled after. They left Lozier and founded Chandler. Our 1914 Chandler is one of the few left that represent what Chandler first produced before they started designing and created new designs and engines.

 

Below is an early 1913 Chandler ad that tells more about the first Chandler cars.

 

 

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Chris,  I think Harold would be pleased that you are now the owner of his Chandler.  Want to come up to my place and work on my two 1914 Chandlers?  LOL Take care my friend.

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Thanks Mike

You might say Harold has been whispering to me.

 

I would love to come up and help with your two Chandlers. Just promise we can go for a ride in your Lozier.

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