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Does this VIN make sense for a 1923 Buick?


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Finally getting around to getting titles for these two cars I bought in Feb.  The BoS for the 1923 Buick lists the VIN as 11 digits long, with the 4th digit being a letter.  That doesn’t make sense, shouldn’t it be the 7 digit engine number?  I’m thinking perhaps it’s a state issued VIN, but it came from Tennessee two years ago with that VIN, and I don’t think Tennessee does that, at least I can’t find anything on the state website regarding that.  I can’t find a plate on the car that has that number on it, but it has been through two other states since leaving Tennessee, and no one seems to have raised any red flags.  Any ideas? 

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1 hour ago, Andy69 said:

Finally getting around to getting titles for these two cars I bought in Feb.  The BoS for the 1923 Buick lists the VIN as 11 digits long, with the 4th digit being a letter.  That doesn’t make sense, shouldn’t it be the 7 digit engine number?  I’m thinking perhaps it’s a state issued VIN, but it came from Tennessee two years ago with that VIN, and I don’t think Tennessee does that, at least I can’t find anything on the state website regarding that.  I can’t find a plate on the car that has that number on it, but it has been through two other states since leaving Tennessee, and no one seems to have raised any red flags.  Any ideas? 

 

1 hour ago, Andy69 said:

This is what I’ve found - engine and chassis numbers

No such thing a VIN in 1923, Or for 1933, 1943, 1953.  VIN's started in mid 50's and not standardised until 80's

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_identification_number

 

What other documents do you have for the Bill of Sale "VIN"

Some state issued VIN?

Does the second chassis/frame tag have the Buick logo?  Or a homemade tag?

What are the engine serial numbers?

1923 Buick numbers.jpg

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8 hours ago, 1939_Buick said:

 

No such thing a VIN in 1923, Or for 1933, 1943, 1953.  VIN's started in mid 50's and not standardised until 80's

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_identification_number

 

What other documents do you have for the Bill of Sale "VIN"

Some state issued VIN?

Does the second chassis/frame tag have the Buick logo?  Or a homemade tag?

What are the engine serial numbers?

1923 Buick numbers.jpg

 

Well, technically you are correct, there was no such thing as a vehicle identification number in 1923 but the Dodge I bought at the same time has a tag on the toe kick inside the car that has a car serial number, which is essentially the same thing as a VIN.

 

Both tags in the above pictures have Buick logos on them.


What I am asking is does a VIN with the form of 000A0000000 make sense for a 1923 Buick?   It was last registered in Tennessee as an antique vehicle in 2018, so it had a Tennessee title, and the information I have indicates the VIN on my BoS was the same VIN listed on that title.  It may very well have some sort of state issued VIN but I’m trying to be thorough and not end up with a car with a title VIN that doesn’t match the car.

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)

It’s the tag on the frame rail with the number somewhere around 1 million since the one millionth Buick was produced in 1923. 
 

No letters. 
 

My 1923 frame tag is oval but yours is a rectangle which is  interesting. 
 

Also my block number is stamped in the block on a cast pad and your engine tag is more like what started in 1924. 

Edited by Brian_Heil (see edit history)
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The engine and frame numbers are not the same. The engine number is always a larger number.  
 

Wondering if Buick transitioned to the 1924 style identification tags late in the 1923 model year?   I’ve looked at the pics of your car it is a 1923.  
 

Any engine pics?

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They looked up the previous registration and this is the VIN that was on the title when it was sold out of state in 2018.  It’s been titled in  two states since then (actually just one since Alabama doesnt issue titles for cars older than 35 years).  No red flags have been put up so I’ll bet I’ll find a tag somewhere.

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Don't try to sell it in Connecticut!  To register a vehicle there, a state trooper will physically look at the the old title and the car VIN?? number. If they don't match, no title will be issued.

 

Bob Engle

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Andy,

     The 2 Buick tags on your car look correct for a late 1923 Buick.  7 digit numbers starting with 106XXXX are 1924.  My car is a 1925, and I received the 1963 title with my car.  It has always been registered in Texas.  My car continues to use the 7 digit engine number to this day because that is what the car was originally titled with.  

 

In you case, someone generated a new title in some state somewhere in the cars history.  Someone may or may not have made the tag after paperwork was finished and the number was assigned.  I built a kit car in the late 70's on a VW chassis.  This was in Michigan and they issued us a title and we made a brass tag for the car.   The VW chassis still had the original serial numbers on it.     

 

I suppose there are 2 paths you could go down. 

1) You could try to have a new title generated based on the original tags (I would use the serial number tag) by getting either 

    - a  bonded title

     - b going thru the registration process of another state that does not issue titles, and then doing a title transfer into your current state using the other states registration (there is information online on how to do this).   

2) make a tag with the A serial number and move on.

     If it were my car, I would ignore the serial number with the letter in it all together and work on registering the car based on it's correct tags.  The way a bonded title works is that a bond is created for the value of the car.  You get a bonded title so that you can use the car.  If someone claims the car as theirs, I understand they get the bond money, but you still keep the car.  After the 2 years has elapsed, they issue an un bonded title.  

Hugh

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4 hours ago, Robert Engle said:

Don't try to sell it in Connecticut!  To register a vehicle there, a state trooper will physically look at the the old title and the car VIN?? number. If they don't match, no title will be issued.

 

Bob Engle

 

New York will give you a new VIN if you ask and have a good reason. My 1940 had a vin that was the engine number of the original 248 engine. But it had a 263 in it. Nothing on my car matched the vin, so I was able to bring photographs of the frame number and they let me change the VIN to that. They first told me to keep the original VIN but I said I really don't like having a number that isn't anywhere on the car.

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My 23 does not have a frame number  but the fire wall id plate serial number matches the engine number. The car is pre vin number which doesn't affect registration in OZ.  For full road rego a car must just pass inspection  ie brake test, indicators, working seat belts etc irrespective of age.  Most vintage car owners use club rego which is administrated by car clubs , cars still have to pass basic roadworthy inspections and are limited to sixty days per year of road use.

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On 5/7/2020 at 12:15 PM, hwellens said:

Reading the details below, looks like there are a several differences between the 1923 and 1924:

 

Buick.jpg


 

great info, happen to have the page for 1927 model year w this info?  

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3 hours ago, Crazyfamily said:


 

great info, happen to have the page for 1927 model year w this info?  

Sorry, no 1927 info, Book was printed in 1926.

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It says the 1917 E-49 was gray with a khaki top and the 1918 E-49 was blue with a black top. I didn't know that.

 

Mine is gray but the top is not original.

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