Cruising in 1972 - Where were you?

[padgett]

Ace Wilson's Royal Pontiac was the home to many "factory" cars. Milt was his best tuner. Any relationship between a Bobcat blueprinted Ram Air IV Pontiac 400 is purely coincidental. Pontiac often used Royal to produce a car that would meet specific performance requirements (like proving a 67 QJ was faster than a tripower). The "stock" 64 GTO test cars with 421s also came from Royal.

 

BTW that Blue White RA V car was interesting officially you had to build a RA V from parts. Everything including the block was "different". Ports were ginourmous. Fahgedabout any street cruising, needed 3k rpm for the fuel to atomise properly. 303 I worked with was even worse. Fun times.

[Robert Street]

2 hours ago, padgett said:

Ace Wilson's Royal Pontiac was the home to many "factory" cars. Milt was his best tuner. Any relationship between a Bobcat blueprinted Ram Air IV Pontiac 400 is purely coincidental. Pontiac often used Royal to produce a car that would meet specific performance requirements (like proving a 67 QJ was faster than a tripower). The "stock" 64 GTO test cars with 421s also came from Royal.

 

BTW that Blue White RA V car was interesting officially you had to build a RA V from parts. Everything including the block was "different". Ports were ginourmous. Fahgedabout any street cruising, needed 3k rpm for the fuel to atomise properly. 303 I worked with was even worse. Fun times.

I remember a Car and Driver magazine test in the 60’s but have forgotten the specifics but I do remember the Mercury Cougar test car had been massaged by Bud Moore and the Pontiac car used had been delivered by Royal Pontiac.  Those were the good days

Robert

[Robert Street]

4 hours ago, supercargirl said:

 

Other than being the saddest looking bunch of hipsters I ever saw (and not for lacking style which you got going on) but what's the story there?  Looks like you rolled it and then parked it?  Great car by the way.  Great sunglasses. 

gee thanks I guess. Yes this was the day after at the junk yard in Raleigh NC. Unfortunately back in those days these Nova SS cars were just transportation. The SS was replaced by a Gran Torino GT 

Robert

[keiser31]

Moved to southern California in late 1972 and started cruising in a 1957 MGA roadster that I purchased. Lasted me 8 years before I started a family and had to sell it....

[8E45E]

4 hours ago, supercargirl said:

 

Other than being the saddest looking bunch of hipsters I ever saw (and not for lacking style which you got going on) but what's the story there? 

Because I can just picture what their dads and their mothers would be saying when they saw, or heard about that!!

 

Imagine if you were one of those boys' moms!

 

Craig

[supercargirl]

@Robert Street -  Did you post the story behind the car?  Did you wreck it and then you all came to visit it in the junkyard?  Just trying to get the facts sir.  I spent a lot of time in auto junkyards (following around a cute guy that was a gearhead and BMW 2002 owner) and I would have had a smile on my face if I found it in a junkyard.  Definitely a frowney face if I had wrecked it the day before LOL

[Guest]

29 minutes ago, keiser31 said:

Moved to southern California in late 1972 and started cruising in a 1957 MGA roadster that I purchased. Lasted me 8 years before I started a family and had to sell it....

Great license plate!

😄

[keiser31]

Growing up near Detroit in Royal Oak, Michigan, I was only blocks away from Ace Wilson's Royal Pontiac. My junior high school was right next to the dealership. I saw all of the most awesome Pontiacs come from there.

[keiser31]

Just now, GregLaR said:

Great license plate!

😄

I got a LOTTA crap from people over that plate.

 

[supercargirl]

6 minutes ago, keiser31 said:

Growing up near Detroit in Royal Oak, Michigan, I was only blocks away from Ace Wilson's Royal Pontiac. My junior high school was right next to the dealership. I saw all of the most awesome Pontiacs come from there.

This is from the article: Located in Royal Oaks, Michigan, the newly opened Royal Pontiac quickly became the stomping grounds of groups of street racing kids. Droves of performance-loving teenagers and young adults were regularly found hanging around Royal’s service department just wanting to see what the gearheads at Royal were up to.

 

Now those would be some great pictures to see... 

[keiser31]

8 minutes ago, supercargirl said:

This is from the article: Located in Royal Oaks, Michigan, the newly opened Royal Pontiac quickly became the stomping grounds of groups of street racing kids. Droves of performance-loving teenagers and young adults were regularly found hanging around Royal’s service department just wanting to see what the gearheads at Royal were up to.

 

Now those would be some great pictures to see... 

Saw the Monkeemobile at Ace Wilson's....took these with my Kodak Instamatic camera....I was 13 years old. Oops....not 1972, but 1966.

Edited April 24, 2020 by keiser31 (see edit history)

[keiser31]

7 minutes ago, supercargirl said:

This is from the article: Located in Royal Oaks, Michigan, the newly opened Royal Pontiac quickly became the stomping grounds of groups of street racing kids. Droves of performance-loving teenagers and young adults were regularly found hanging around Royal’s service department just wanting to see what the gearheads at Royal were up to.

 

Now those would be some great pictures to see... 

It's actually Royal OAK, Michigan, but they say Royal OAKS.

[Lebowski]

3 hours ago, padgett said:

Ace Wilson's Royal Pontiac was the home to many "factory" cars.

 

I remember hearing about that place and I lived in the Chicago area....

 

 

 

 

 

[padgett]

Jim Wangers was the advertising mind behind the GTO (Get Those Orders - 64 Goat was in direct violation of headquarters rule, only way out was to sell lots of them). I used to run into Jim and Milt at POCI meets.

(if ever write an autobiogaphy will need to class under fiction).

[TerryB]

1 hour ago, Lebowski said:

 

I remember hearing about that place and I lived in the Chicago area....

 

 

 

 

 

That is my favorite era for drag racing and the cars that raced.  Today the whole show is over in 4 seconds or less.  These cars were GREAT (as Tony the Tiger would say).

[JimKB1MCV]

1972:-ish, cruising the Davis Straits and north, also the Greenland  fishing grounds, on watch with a 3k HP diesel electric plant.

[padgett]

" Today the whole show is over in 4 seconds or less" well its only 1/8 mile. Is the logical outgrowth of bracket racing (when I stopped, the whole ideas of losing if you go to fast was just absurd.

BTW I often watch those family shows but the latest seems to be ladies who are faster then men (well, no strength required) am total computer controls (do not understand how someone with Traction Control - mentioned a few times this year - can have wheelspin problems. Button to release a trans brake, no fancy footwork required. Just not fun.

[Guest]

Agreed!

Supercomps running off the "box". No wheel stands, no hard launch, half track before the computer hits and the car finally goes.

Boring.

 

[padgett]

Designing F16 flight controls for 100 foot "hard ride" - that is fun.

[edinmass]

Where was I in 1972? First grade........

[Larry Schramm]

Waiting for my draft #149 to get drawn.

[TerryB]

Me- 1971 which is almost 1972!.  R/Stock trophy winner. 

 

[padgett]

Ahhh the daze of 7" cheater slicks (two grooves).

[Lebowski]

43 minutes ago, plymouthcranbrook said:

Anyone besides me remember Grand-Spaulding Dodge in Chicago? Although more from the 60’s as far as I can remember it went into the early 70’s as a performance Dealer. They did a lot of highly modified Dodges for street and strip.  Went there once with a friend who wanted to see if he could afford to buy a High Performance Dodge Dart. Not a big place but what a bunch of cars!  By the way, he couldn’t.

 

Whatever happened to Mr. Norm anyway? Their cars were way out of my price range back then anyway. Plus I had a heavy foot that was always getting me in trouble. Ever heard of someone who had their driver's license suspended for two months while they were still a 17 year old senior in high school? You have now.... 

[Pfeil]

19 hours ago, padgett said:

Jim Wangers was the advertising mind behind the GTO (Get Those Orders - 64 Goat was in direct violation of headquarters rule, only way out was to sell lots of them). I used to run into Jim and Milt at POCI meets.

(if ever write an autobiogaphy will need to class under fiction).

 

Wangers was the advertising mind promoting WIDE TRACK in 1959, Knudsen asked Wangers to find a willing dealership to be a factory outlet for high performance Pontiac parts. Royal Pontiac's first sponsored factory drag race car was in 1959, a 389 tripower Catalina that ran in the high 13's at over 100 mph. It was one of the first stock cars to break this 100 MPH barrier. In 1960 Wangers drove the Royal 1960 Catalina to the U.S. Nationals for the win in S/S. In those days before Pontiac was forced out of racing by G.M.'s 14th floor in 1963 when a Royal Pontiac lost a race it was usually to another Pontiac.

I should mention that it was in 1959 that Royal's top engine builder and top tuner Frank Rediker developed the famous Royal Bobcat treatment. Rediker built all the Royal cars from 1959 to 1963.

The 59 car;

 The front fender which says Royal treatment by has Rediker's name on it along with his assistants W. Brown and C. Waters 

The 60 car below with Wangers taking the win at the 1960 U.S. nationals a 1960 Pontiac Catalina VS another Catalina for the title;

 

 

The 62 car below.

Wangers driving.

The 63 Car;

421 SD-no tri-power here.

 

For 1963, the SD-421 drag racing engine was improved considerably. Head castings were modified with taller intake ports, oval-shaped exhaust ports and fitted with larger 2.02-inch intake and 1.76-inch exhaust valves. New forged aluminum pistons raised the compression ratio from 11 to 12.5-to-l. Factory listing for the Group 35 Super-Duty 421 cars shows the B-W T-85 three-speed as standard and B-W T-10 four-speed optional.

Pontiac’s Malcolm “Mac” McKellar came up with a new cam and dual valve springs that allowed shift points as high as 6,400 rpm. Tuned aluminum exhaust headers, just 27 pounds per set, were mated to a single muffler system. While Pontiac upped the 421’s horsepower from 405 to 410, the new heads, camshaft, valve train and compression increase translated into a solid 40-50 horsepower bump. Racers experimented with a variety of cams, including Number 10 and 12 McKellar grinds.

Early in 1963, Royal Pontiac’s B/FX Lightweight tuned by Frank Rediker and driven by Jim Wangers, posted times in the low-12s at 117-119 mph. Wangers went on to a class win at the NHRA Indy Nationals. Howard Maselles later drove the Packer Pontiac lightweight into the NHRA record books, setting the C/Stock record at 114.64 mph in 12.27 seconds.

Rediker stopped building cars for Royal after G.M. got out of racing, only to reappear in 1965 building 442's for the Olds dealership he worked for.

 He's in the picture.

 

Edited April 25, 2020 by Pfeil (see edit history)

[Pfeil]

9 hours ago, Lebowski said:

 

I remember hearing about that place and I lived in the Chicago area....

 

 

 

 

 

 

The top picture of the 1962 "recreation" of Royals S/SS car driven by Wangers is very authentic to the real one that is no longer with us. Note the top of the fender Frank Rediker's name. Milt didn't come along until later. I have a 62  2 dr. Post like it in the same color ( caravan gold) and interior, but instead of a 421 mine is a 426..

Edited April 25, 2020 by Pfeil (see edit history)

[SC38dls]

9 hours ago, plymouthcranbrook said:

Anyone besides me remember Grand-Spaulding Dodge in Chicago? Although more from the 60’s as far as I can remember it went into the early 70’s as a performance Dealer. They did a lot of highly modified Dodges for street and strip.  Went there once with a friend who wanted to see if he could afford to buy a High Performance Dodge Dart. Not a big place but what a bunch of cars!  By the way, he couldn’t.

That’s where I got my first car. A 57 Desoto that was on the lot and the only old car there. $200 and they put new tires on it. I kept bugging the used car sales guy until he gave up and sold it to me tax, title and tires for the $200 cash

 

dave s 

[8E45E]

10 hours ago, plymouthcranbrook said:

Anyone besides me remember Grand-Spaulding Dodge in Chicago? Although more from the 60’s as far as I can remember it went into the early 70’s as a performance Dealer. They did a lot of highly modified Dodges for street and strip.  Went there once with a friend who wanted to see if he could afford to buy a High Performance Dodge Dart. Not a big place but what a bunch of cars!  By the way, he couldn’t.

And Crosstown Motors in Edmonton was nearly a Canadian counterpart.  If I remember right, Crosstown sold the highest number of Hemi-engine equipped late-60's; early '70's Dodges in Canada.  Many survive, and at least one restored example has been shown at MCACN.

 

Craig

[Buick35]

Getting discharged from the army,Nixon have everybody a six month early out,thank God!

[padgett]

Well for the late sixties I was in the service and overseas most of the time. My experience started as a GMI student in 1970 and after Milt started tuning in the late 60s. Must admit that in the early 70s was more into fiddling with Rochester fuel injections. First Pontiac (after Mother's 64 GP with rotohydramatic) was in '72. Was really amazing all of the access a GMI student who was a gearhead had.)

Also guarantee nothing from memory any more. Google is your friend.

 

That said those aluminum headers were for drags only, run too long and they would start dripping on the track .

 

Also even 421s had trips: two Carter AFBs on the ends and another Carter in the middle.

 

ps thought the Carter three barrel was a 3636, was there a meaning to the 5 on the end ?

[1935Packard]

I was cruising around New York City in a convertible just like this.  Fun wheels, with a good suspension, but underpowered at just one mom-power. 

 

[keiser31]

19 hours ago, plymouthcranbrook said:

Anyone besides me remember Grand-Spaulding Dodge in Chicago? Although more from the 60’s as far as I can remember it went into the early 70’s as a performance Dealer. They did a lot of highly modified Dodges for street and strip.  Went there once with a friend who wanted to see if he could afford to buy a High Performance Dodge Dart. Not a big place but what a bunch of cars!  By the way, he couldn’t.

A buddy of mine here has a car that was from Grand Spaulding Dodge. It is a one of two built HEMI, four speed 1968 Coronet 440. It's red. A buddy of ours in Wisconsin has the other one. It's blue. Both cars are fully documented. You can see the Mr. Norm's sticker on the rear panel....

Edited April 25, 2020 by keiser31 (see edit history)

[SC38dls]

The black and white building back along the fence is where my 57 De Soto sat. The only reason I think they kept it on the lot was it had the small hemi in it. I went in every week or so held up the $200 bucks until the manager finally gave in. They used to shout “The $200 kid is here again!”  We filled the rust holes above the headlights with steel wool and bondo then painted it with EJ Korvetts ( a discount store before K mart) black porch and deck enamel paint and 2 four inch brushes. Lol

dave s 

[caddyshack]

2 hours ago, 1935Packard said:

I was cruising around New York City in a convertible just like this.  Fun wheels, with a good suspension, but underpowered at just one mom-power. 

 

I like the post 35Packard. Kind of the same situation. 

In '72 I just graduated from college, bought a small house, first child was born, started a new job, life was hectic. The only cruising for me was 70 miles of highway driving in a '70 ss chevelle once a week to pick up a class I missed as a freshman. My cruising days were pretty much over.

[padgett]

Oy talk about brane fade. 36365 is a typo, obviously shouldabin 3636S (Carter AFB)

[Robert Street]

23 hours ago, plymouthcranbrook said:

Anyone besides me remember Grand-Spaulding Dodge in Chicago? Although more from the 60’s as far as I can remember it went into the early 70’s as a performance Dealer. They did a lot of highly modified Dodges for street and strip.  Went there once with a friend who wanted to see if he could afford to buy a High Performance Dodge Dart. Not a big place but what a bunch of cars!  By the way, he couldn’t.

I took this at the 1965 Super Stock Nationals at York PA

Robert

[Pfeil]

6 hours ago, padgett said:

Well for the late sixties I was in the service and overseas most of the time. My experience started as a GMI student in 1970 and after Milt started tuning in the late 60s. Must admit that in the early 70s was more into fiddling with Rochester fuel injections. First Pontiac (after Mother's 64 GP with rotohydramatic) was in '72. Was really amazing all of the access a GMI student who was a gearhead had.)

Also guarantee nothing from memory any more. Google is your friend.

 

That said those aluminum headers were for drags only, run too long and they would start dripping on the track .

 

Also even 421s had trips: two Carter AFBs on the ends and another Carter in the middle.

 

ps thought the Carter three barrel was a 3636, was there a meaning to the 5 on the end ?

First time I heard of Milt was the Bobcat work on the 64 or 65 GTO

[Pfeil]

On 4/24/2020 at 8:56 AM, padgett said:

Ace Wilson's Royal Pontiac was the home to many "factory" cars. Milt was his best tuner. Any relationship between a Bobcat blueprinted Ram Air IV Pontiac 400 is purely coincidental. Pontiac often used Royal to produce a car that would meet specific performance requirements (like proving a 67 QJ was faster than a tripower). The "stock" 64 GTO test cars with 421s also came from Royal.

 

BTW that Blue White RA V car was interesting officially you had to build a RA V from parts. Everything including the block was "different". Ports were ginourmous. Fahgedabout any street cruising, needed 3k rpm for the fuel to atomise properly. 303 I worked with was even worse. Fun times.

FYI, Pontiac divisions press pool was controlled by Wangers, and Royal prepped all the press pool cars.  

[keiser31]

One night in about 1971, we were cruising Woodward Avenue in my Road Runner and came across these three guys in a beer-bottle brown, plain Jane Firebird. The guys were dressed in white shirts and had ties on. Seemed like they were taller guys and they were all crammed in that car. It was kicking EVERYONE'S butt in every race performed that night. The car had no spoilers, scoops, traction devices that we could see, etc., but was REALLY fast. Turns out it was three Pontiac engineers that had the prototype for the Trans-Am Firebird and were "road testing" the 455 mule.

Edited April 26, 2020 by keiser31 (see edit history)

[Marty Roth]

We moved January 1st from Ft. Wayne, Indiana to the Richmond, Virginia metro area where I was assigned to the governor's office and ultimately responsible for government computers, and government interfacing city and county computers, as well as hospitals, etc. MY primary ride was my Belgian version 1967 Citroen DS-21 Pallas, but I also still had the 1969 Pontiac Custom"S" 4-door, ordered essentially as a "GTO in Drag" with all of the goodies to be a serous handling autocross.

 

While I didn't have a lot of time for cruising, I did meet Bruce Woodson and his family. Aside from his multiple Cord, Auburn, and Bantam cars, Bruce, like myself, was a Citroen owner. Thanks to Bruce and his wonderful family I was introduced to AACA, played trumpet with the Richmond Concert Band, and started playing gigs with Bruce. He later gave us a '66 Pontiac Catalina station wagon shortly before the birth of our 2nd child.