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Antique cars, this year and beyond, what will happen ?


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Antique cars, this year and beyond, what will happen ?
I bought a 64 Corvette convertible in 1976.
It was basically worn out, everything was worn, the engine ran sort of.
I completely disassembled the car and started repairs and rebuilding.
I have owned several cars and motorcycles through the years.

 

I am interested in what you think will happen this year and beyond.
Will antique cars hold their value, drop like a rock or be completely unsellable ?

What will recovery look like ?

Will it return to like it was before ?

 

I worked in pharmaceutical research for twenty five years.
I am in contact via email with some of the guys I worked with for years and we are trying to decide/estimate when/how the medical recovery will unfold.
There are 35 research organization currently working on vaccines.
A few have entered clinical trials and others are getting close.
The Russians have a vaccine they say will be ready for mass production in September.
This would be record time but no one knows for sure until it happens or someone else could get there first.

 

Photo from days gone by.

 

49780999102_ce711d7c53_b.jpg

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I'm looking into my all-seeing/all-knowing carbide headlamp right now and it's telling me that if I like old cars, I can continue playing with them.  When I'm gone someone else can worry about how much my car is worth.  Meantime, having fun is worth spending money on.

Terry

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Any speculation really has to take a few factors into account. 

 The reality of current car guys aging into the sunset.

The external pressure working against younger people entering the hobby.

The external pressures working against the hobby support industry.

The realities of a novel corona virus family within the population at large.

The economic disruption of a serious global pandemic.

The economic disruption that was already in place ; primarily affecting middle class and lower incomes , and younger people particularly . Debt situations around the world etc.

Being from a Pharmaceutical background yourself , you are probably in a better place than the majority to know the success Medical Science has had against viruses in general

and the Corona Virus family in particular up until the present time.  The track record is a bit concerning , to me at least.

 

I have no doubt the people we generally consider "wealthy " will survive the economic effects reasonably well. As long as they have a reasonably diverse holding there is a

good chance they will fare significantly better than most of us. History tells us this. The collector cars that appeal to  this group will probably fare reasonably well.

Average people were often already in ; to one degree or another, an uncertain financial situation . The current virus situation may make that worse in many cases.

Most collector cars are average cars that generally appeal to average people.  

I can see that market having real trouble in the short to medium term.

 

Greg in Canada

 

Edited by 1912Staver (see edit history)
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50 or 60 years from now, there's going to be a bonanza of barn finds for whomever comes after us, should they be interested in old cars. Fewer and fewer people are going to sell their cars because everyone wants to get their money out of their cars plus some profit, so they'll foolishly "wait for the market to come back." Their heirs won't sell because dad told them it was worth three times more than it is, and it's getting less valuable every year, not more. As a result, the cars will just sit and rot waiting for a payday that will never, ever come. Eventually there will be scrappage the likes of which we haven't seen since WWII.

 

If you own an old car today, you're gonna lose your shirt when you sell it or your heirs are going to be disappointed that it isn't their ticket to a lavish lifestyle. The coronavirus isn't going to change that one way or the other--everything was already going downhill at an accelerating rate. If anything, this will merely delay it.

 

Accept that, get on with having fun, and screw the money. This is a hobby, not an investment.

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8 minutes ago, Matt Harwood said:

50 or 60 years from now, there's going to be a bonanza of barn finds for whomever comes after us, should they be interested in old cars. Fewer and fewer people are going to sell their cars because everyone wants to get their money out of their cars plus some profit, so they'll foolishly "wait for the market to come back." Their heirs won't sell because dad told them it was worth three times more than it is, and it's getting less valuable every year, not more. As a result, the cars will just sit and rot waiting for a payday that will never, ever come. Eventually there will be scrappage the likes of which we haven't seen since WWII.

 

If you own an old car today, you're gonna lose your shirt when you sell it or your heirs are going to be disappointed that it isn't their ticket to a lavish lifestyle. The coronavirus isn't going to change that one way or the other--everything was already going downhill at an accelerating rate. If anything, this will merely delay it.

 

Accept that, get on with having fun, and screw the money. This is a hobby, not an investment.

Often in an estate type setting when more than one heir is involved the cars get sold for whatever they will bring so that the estate can be closed.  Taking less up front gets things resolved so everyone finally gets their check.  I think that might very well be why those great cars including that Packard phaeton and Auburn Boattail ended up at the wrong auction in FL with no detailing and little information.  It was to dump them and settle an estate I bet.  We did it with a few more modern cars my Mother had when she passed. As lawyers diddle around and send you bills it makes more sense to close things out and move on even when at a loss and late model cars are easy to value to see how much less you are getting than they are worth, but they cut you a check a that day.  We tried (well my Siblings did as my Mom had moved to FL) to sell them for a month or so outright but in the end they didn't have the time.  It wasn't worth transporting them up here for me to sell, because the cost of transport would have added to what we had to get and nothing was in real demand up here that she had.  It was only 3 vehicles and a Motorhome.  Of which only one was really almost new with 1000 miles on it.   The rest were a couple of years or more older. 

 

I already told the wife,  do what you want but having an auction would be best if she really wanted to clean out.  I have a guy's card in my wallet to call that would atleast make a good attempt to get fair money for what I have and she would just have to sit back and get a check cut at the end of the day for her share. 

He's a sign guy and knows I have enough to make a worthwhile event though not a huge collection but with the cars and everything else. A 1 day auction would draw enough people to make it worth his time. 

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A topic like this can go places we might never understand or appreciate, I think bob Dylan captured the idea of change best back in 1964, a hymn to all of us who think we got it all figured out. One of the best set of lyrics ever written IMHO.
 
Come gather 'round, people, Wherever you roam
And admit that the waters, Around you have grown
And accept it that soon, You'll be drenched to the bone
If your time to you is worth savin'
And you better start swimmin', Or you'll sink like a stone
For the times they are a-changin'
 
Come writers and critics, Who prophesize with your pen
And keep your eyes wide, The chance won't come again
And don't speak too soon, For the wheel's still in spin
And there's no tellin' who That it's namin'
For the loser now, Will be later to win
For the times they are a-changin'
 
Come senators, congressmen, Please heed the call
Don't stand in the doorway, Don't block up the hall
For he that gets hurt, Will be he who has stalled
The battle outside is ragin' 
Will soon shake your windows, And rattle your walls
For the times they are a-changin'
 
Come mothers and fathers, Throughout the land
And don't criticize, What you can't understand
Your sons and your daughters, Are beyond your command
Your old road is rapidly agin'
Please get out of the new one, If you can't lend your hand
For the times they are a-changin'
 
The line it is drawn, The curse it is cast
The slow one now, Will later be fast
As the present now, Will later be past
The order is rapidly fadin'
And the first one now, Will later be last
For the times they are a-changin'
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-Can someone please explain to me why old car STUFF is hotter than a pistol when old cars are getting softer everyday? Porcelain signs, oil cans, gas globes are bringing stupid, stupid money. These used to be things that old car people displayed in their garages. I have sold automotive advertising items to people that don't even like cars it blows my mind.

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12 minutes ago, md murray said:

-Can someone please explain to me why old car STUFF is hotter than a pistol when old cars are getting softer everyday? Porcelain signs, oil cans, gas globes are bringing stupid, stupid money. These used to be things that old car people displayed in their garages. I have sold automotive advertising items to people that don't even like cars it blows my mind.

 

Car memorabilia is a lot easier to store, display and maintain than an actual antique car itself.

And the learning curve needed to get up to speed to maintain or buy and sell memorabilia is much, much easier than cars.

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9 hours ago, Terry Bond said:

I'm looking into my all-seeing/all-knowing carbide headlamp right now and it's telling me that if I like old cars, I can continue playing with them.  When I'm gone someone else can worry about how much my car is worth.  Meantime, having fun is worth spending money on.

Terry

 

 

I'll always be happy with the cars and parts, literature and friends I have in the hobby. NEVER considered the resale value having an effect on the things I love. Bob 

Edited by 1937hd45 (see edit history)
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2 minutes ago, zepher said:

 

Car memorabilia is a lot easier to store, display and maintain than an actual antique car itself.

And the learning curve needed to get up to speed to maintain or buy and sell memorabilia is much, much easier than cars.

 

 

 

Many items fit in a Flat Rate Post Office box, and have more value that the bucket of rust, you have to ship across the country, and spend a lifetime on without ever getting a ride in. 

 

Bob

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Hoo boy so many issues in one thread:

1) Every year the "antique" pool increases manyfold. My collector insurance now accepts 2001 models so has reached this century.

2) My opinions are skewed since live in "God's Waiting Room" with no rust.

3) Suspect the effect will be multiplied since unemployment is at record levels and will increase by 19,000 in Orange county (the right one) on Monday.

4) Agree the the wealthy will not have much change in disposable but do suspect that "after" conspicuous consumption will not be politically correct. Multimillion dollar cars my not sell publically.

5) To some extent the percentage of people who do not drive their cars anyway (double stacked or in rows) may decide they have "enough".

6) Suddenly being on a fixed income is not a bad thing.

7) At any given time the cars I'd consider (C5 or XLR) are available within 100 miles in a dozen or more, can select by colors/options but asking prices have not changed in CL/eBay/AutoTrader/Gurus/Facebook marketplace ( latter has the largest selection) but then are few new ads. Little is selling.

8 ) Memorablia/signs (except for Wayne's) are easy to move/ship and take up little space. Most goes on walls or hung from ceiling

8a) If people are not buying cars, they can afford memorablia/signs

9) We're finally getting rain.

10) I doubt that we will ever gat back to the amount of driving we had reached

10A) Unintended consequences: oil glut/gas prices about where I remember it being in 1984. Many people will find they are more productive/have more time as telecommuters. Also air quality is improving in many problem areas. I wonder if the weather patterns here will change.

 

Bottom line: I have an empty slot in my garage but will probably be one from this century and am in no rush, really have more than sane already.

 

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4 hours ago, Terry Bond said:

I'm looking into my all-seeing/all-knowing carbide headlamp right now and it's telling me that if I like old cars, I can continue playing with them.  When I'm gone someone else can worry about how much my car is worth.  Meantime, having fun is worth spending money on.

Terry

 

 Right on, Terry. 

 

  Ben

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I am with you Padget right up to the "suddenly being on a fixed income is not a bad thing " . How so ? If you mean one by one we come to our senses and give up hope of being involved with anything that isn't in the basics of life category perhaps ?

Mabey things are different in Florida, it is 3,500 miles and an international border  away.  But in my neck of the woods discretionary spending margins have for most of the population slowly eroded to the point a good many live paycheque to paycheque. And I am not talking the 

2 vacation a year and I device crowd, just regular , frugal, middle class people doing their best in a high cost of living region.

On a fixed income any remnant  of discretionary spending gets eliminated over a number of years for nearly all members of the fixed income class. Prices always rise, often faster than even employed peoples wages.  The fixed income group is 

all that much more dead in the water than even the average working person. And inflation of the price of the " needs " in ones life always will take precedence over the wants of those on a fixed income. Draw the time frame out long enough and 

the fixed income crowd become the vacant lot tent crowd. Hey Joe, it's pension day . Want to go halfers on a can of fancy feast ?

 

Greg in Canada

Edited by 1912Staver (see edit history)
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Another consideration is, in relative terms, the “old car hobby” really isn’t that old when you stack it up against other interests and pastimes that people have been doing for a lot longer than cars have been around; it’s not like we’re talking about reading or music. The bulk of car clubs are what - around 55 to 60 years old? I know there’s some older ones out there (think there’s a UK club that goes back to 1905ish), but in the scheme of things, not like we’re talking about clubs who had a cruise-in night 1000 years ago at the Pyramids at Giza (bring your chariot, and clean up after your horses, please).  
 

The fact that any of these machines have survived 50/60/70/80+ years after their manufacture is the actual surprise in all this, and the subsequent “hobby restoration” businesses that sprang up to support it was also something that would have been a total surprise to many auto makers. Don’t fear the future; in every generation there’s always a handful of oddballs and weirdos (i.e.: us) who will be drawn to these things. It’s part of our job to encourage them and bring them into our lunacy - that way the hobby moves forward and we just might help create the next generational market when we want to sell. 

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For those of us, or at least me, who have been in this hobby for 6 decades will tell you that for a long time it was more about the hobby than money. As I recall big money didn't become interested until the 70's with the beginning of auctions.  Every car I own I have had to do different degrees of work on, sometimes as simple as putting it back together. I have been blessed with some talents and married a very

capable woman. If we had to spend months learning to accomplish a task that is  we did (school of hard knocks). I am still learning and love it.  My greatest investment has been time.

My point is if making money is your motivator then good luck, if saving a piece from the past, if sitting in your brass car and imagining driving to church 6 miles away in 30 degree weather, if you enter a mind warp when you start the engine in your 193--- whatever them you will be all right. 

If we want young people to be interested then we need to help them, I've probably given 5 projects away to young people who I've mentored, cars I knew I'd never have the interest  in restoring, mostly mid teens. They were all given with a time limit till I got a ride, and I got some scary ones. Its all about whats important to you.

Perhaps our hobby is reverting back to the way it started, maybe not such a bad thing.

These are my opinions and I do not mean to offend or criticize.

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In the past, a person could sell their antique vehicle during hard times.  Not this time. 

 

No one is going to want my 1937 Ford Fordor or your 1939 Buick Special 4DR.  

 

I told my wife that our car probably has lost a third of its value this year.  

 

The Model A guys are dying off, and many of them own two, three, four Model A cars each.  The glut of Model As is already happening.  

 

High end cars will always bring in the dough, but the average "antique" car that is not a two door convertible will be on the losing end.  

 

Going to be a buyer's market soon.  

 

 

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20 minutes ago, Pomeroy41144 said:

In the past, a person could sell their antique vehicle during hard times.  Not this time. 

 

No one is going to want my 1937 Ford Fordor or your 1939 Buick Special 4DR.  

 

I told my wife that our car probably has lost a third of its value this year.  

 

The Model A guys are dying off, and many of them own two, three, four Model A cars each.  The glut of Model As is already happening.  

 

High end cars will always bring in the dough, but the average "antique" car that is not a two door convertible will be on the losing end.  

 

Going to be a buyer's market soon.  

 

 

Wait hasn't everyone been saying that the 4 door sedans were the hot cars everyone was wanting?  Must have been a fad.  

Everything in my garage has a pickup bed or a Convertible top.  Two Are CCCA approved.  I guess holding out for the better models more people desire might have been a good choice now.  

Not really the main reason i bought them.  I just like Convertibles.  The companies did a good job of advertising their sporty models.  Drew me in years ago.  Selling literature I get to see that same advertising every day.  

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Antique cars, this year and beyond, what will happen ?

 

Just my opinion (and it may not be a popular one around here) is that the same thing will happen to antique cars that happens to all luxury items during hard times: the bottom falls out of the market and the prices take a nosedive. But that's presuming the worst about the economy in the long term, and I don't know that we should jump to that conclusion just yet. My wife and I assumed a very conservative position for our investments after 2008, and so far we haven't taken near the hit that we would've pre-'08, but we've still taken a sizeable hit for a two month period. Non-essential cars can only be worse than that.

 

I know nothing of the high end market (which is a different deal), but I personally believe there will be a permanent change in the modest segment of the  market down where us bottom feeders tend to dwell. Gone will be the recent days of the "desirable" rusty non-running $5000 -$9000 old car out sitting in a field or lot somewhere. Not talking about Maseratti's or '30's Packards. I'm talking about the kind of cars we used to pay 200 to 400 bucks for back in the 60's an 70's as running (though very used) vehicles because they were everywhere.

 

Too many ordinary American cars of the 1960's and earlier have been too expensive for too long, in my opinion. To be fair, part of that is the high cost of restoration and maintenance, and the hard to get parts associated with that. But sellers of non-restored cars that have been neglected or that have been butchered have been trying to cash in for too long. So keep your rusty $10,000 non running or driving Chevelle with a non-original hood and stupid hot rod features. Nobody's going to want that crap at that price anymore. Too many good alternatives.

 

 

1966 Chevrolet Chevelle

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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6 hours ago, 1912Staver said:

...The external pressure working against younger people entering the hobby.

 

1 hour ago, 1912Staver said:

Maybe things are different in Florida, it is 3,500 miles and an international border  away.  But in my neck of the woods discretionary spending margins have for most of the population slowly eroded to the point a good many live paycheque to paycheque. ...Greg in Canada

 

I hate to hear everyone's pessimism, because that means

you aren't fully enjoying all the good you have.  Greg, I've been

to British Columbia once, and while it may be expensive to live there,

the environs are beautiful.  Even a small garage with one old car, if that is

what one's lot fits, can bring a lot of enjoyment in such a place.

After all, ice cream tastes just as good in a Plymouth as in a Pierce-Arrow!

 

And in many areas, new graduates with needed degrees can

find good work and live very satisfactorily.  The man with a

hundred million dollars and a hundred cars is really no happier

than one with a single '75 Chevy.  I've met them both, and there's really

no difference in how much they can enjoy our hobby.

 

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My 2 cents - which currently is only worth about 1.5 cents based on the stock market of the last month or so...

 

You can fret about the future or enjoy the present

 

The last pandemic of similar comparison being the Spanish Flu was followed by the Roaring 20's - maybe we should be more concerned about 10 years from now

 

There will be changes, but with those changes will come opportunities - maybe you will finally get that one car that you've always wanted because the price becomes realistic, maybe you end up in a different job, but you enjoy it more, maybe you come up with a creative solution to help retailers post Covid, maybe neighbors become real neighbors again and you share a beer in the laneway and discuss the world and not just wave from the car as you rush off somewhere

 

Who knows what will happen and we won't know what happened until it's in the past so in the meantime control what you can and live for the maybes and just maybe we'll all make it to Hershey this year

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For all when know the government will be offering $100,000 per 100 year old car in the year 2050 just to get them off the roadways.  Or they will be worth $750 each as metal objects.  Probably somewhere in between.

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5 minutes ago, 39BuickEight said:

For all when know the government will be offering $100,000 per 100 year old car in the year 2050 just to get them off the roadways.  Or they will be worth $750 each as metal objects.  Probably somewhere in between.


For all we know $100,000 dollars in 2050 won’t be enough money to care about. 

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I wish that people would quit whining. Buy wat cars you like and can afford without hurting your nestegg. The drive thr hell out of them as long as you can. I've never seen an armored car follow a hearse. Steve /rinaldo

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15 minutes ago, Steve Rinaldo said:

I've never seen an armored car follow a hearse. Steve /rinaldo

Me neither and I have led, driven or followed nearly 16,000 hearses.

I have owned 27 cars, two of them new and 2 lease returns.  My Grandfather's Pontiac needs a complete restoration of it's body.  I could afford it but wont.  All my cars were bought when we had extra money so owe us nothing.  If I died first, Dixie can do whatever she wants with my stuff.  Neither of our boys have any interest in any of it.  Whatever it brings is found money for her.  Simple as that. If you Bowl, Curl, Golf or whatever hobby, there is no return on investment except for the enjoyment I/we/you have enjoyed.  Once you are on the other side of the grass or over the River Jordan nothing here on earth matters.  The closer I get to 80 the more I realize that fact.

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1912: Please remember I came though the 80's when inflation in the US approached 20%. Retired in 2015 after paying into social security since 1966, exceeding the max in most years. Worked for elements of the same corporation in increasing higher positions for over 35 years. And contributed the max to my 401 k for all of that time. My "fixed income" is different from some, the IRS forces me to take money from my 401k but Medicare limits how much. I carry a certain amount of debt only as a hedge. Strange times.

 

Keep in mind that my only dependents are my cats and I keep a month's worth of Fancy Feast on hand. They probably eat better than I do. My personal expenditure are quite low.

 

That said it seems unlikely that inflation will be significant for the near future. For right now I can afford my hobby since expenses are quire low (part of living in the same house since 1984 and have all needed space at home) and pay cash for any additions. May buy one more car (have an open slot) but am very selective.

 

That said have worked for everything I have over a very long period of time. Other than free hearing aids nothing is tax free.

 

I suspect at least some here are in the same position. Is really a matter of priorities.

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I have a number of old cars.  I have paid somewhere in the middle on prices in the "old car" market.  Not an expensive $100,000.00 vehicle, but not $500.00 specials either. 

 

Some of the cars I have put in more money than what I actually paid for the vehicle because my wife and I drive them.  Standard formula is 1. Drive them, 2. Break it, 3. Fix it,  REPEAT.  That is what happens when the car is not just kept in a garage and only drive out of the garage to the driveway to wash and back in the garage.

 

As for the "value" of the vehicle and "what it is worth", the formula that I process mentally is how much did I pay for the vehicle + repairs, maintenance, etc.. MINUS the enjoyment that WE GET for driving the vehicle.  Since we tour our vehicles, I mentally price each day driving the vehicle equal to a day at Disney or any other amusement part, except there are no ticket counters, lines, or crowds.  I subtract maybe $100/day/person that is on the drive with us from the "price value" of the vehicle.  If I drive it a lot, the car does not owe me much because of the days & hours of enjoyment received.  That is my formula.

 

As for the end game after I am gone, it is up to the kids and their spouses to dispose of them if they like or keep them.  The kids have already put tags on some of the vehicles that they want and time will tell if they can afford more. 

 

For the younger generation, I am a firm believer that if you do not let them drive them they will not have any interest in your cars.  Too much is told to them "DON'T TOUCH"...Etc... so they develop other interests.  My son and son-in-law have both driven the '15 truck and the '13 Buick.  When I can get a couple of vehicles dependable at the same time, I expect my one daughter and husband to come touring with us because they are interested in the old cars.  I am getting close.  Maybe with the time now we will be able to make some big progress.

 

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As an investment you already missed the bus so put the pedal to the metal and enjoy them while you can. I have 3 antique cars and one I am rebuilding the drive line plus mechanics so I am going to loose my shirt on this one. As for leaving them for my kids they have no interest and when I am gone they will need to be re restored as I plan to drive them to the bitter end.

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Well what can I say Padget it sounds a lot like my life except you are a few years older and got into the real estate market about a decade earlier.  I pinch a lot of pennies, keep my expenses as low as possible.

Food is a substantial expense here. And definitely as the Canadian $ sinks inflation becomes apparent . You notice it at the grocery check out first but it spreads into other areas over time.

At least gas is cheaper but I am not using much these days.

 

Greg

 

Edited by 1912Staver (see edit history)
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4 hours ago, John_S_in_Penna said:

After all, ice cream tastes just as good in a Plymouth as in a Pierce-Arrow!

 

You've obviously never owned a Pierce Arrow.  🤣🤣

Hahahaha!

 

J/K

 

I know what you mean about driving a time machine and reliving the past.

But some things are better in a Pierce Arrow. 😁

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24 minutes ago, zepher said:

 

You've obviously never owned a Pierce Arrow.  🤣🤣

Hahahaha!

 

J/K

 

I know what you mean about driving a time machine and reliving the past.

But some things are better in a Pierce Arrow. 😁


I don’t think I would let my kids eat ice cream in a Pierce Arrow. 

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41 minutes ago, gossp said:

I don’t think I would let my kids eat ice cream in a Pierce Arrow. 

 

Larry said "I would"

 

HF often has free small plastic tarps but would prefer Grey Poupon in a RR.

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1 hour ago, Larry Schramm said:

 

I would.


I would let my kids eat ice cream in your Pierce-Arrow then!

 

More from the mouths of babes: my eldest child really has no interest in an antique car that you cannot eat ice cream in. 

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2 hours ago, gossp said:


I don’t think I would let my kids eat ice cream in a Pierce Arrow. 

 

 

When I was a kid in the 60s and 70s, my dad would not let us eat ice cream in his beautiful Buick Electra 225s.  No way.  

 

 

 

 

 

.

.

.

 

Edited by Pomeroy41144 (see edit history)
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Just now, Pomeroy41144 said:

 

 

My dad would not let us eat ice cream in his beautiful Buick Electra 225s.  No way.  


My dad didn’t let us eat ice cream in any of the old cars. He has much nicer old cars now and he lets my kids eat ice cream in them all the time. @gossjh

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I have way more time wrenching on one of my old junkers than I do driving it. It's early in the relationship. We are still getting to know each other...My understanding is my old sedans can't catch covid. When I do go drive them I am in isolation. We have fun. The money I spend brings me happiness. Especially when I am rewarded by being able to drive the old cars. I am rewarded when people wave, or give me a thumbs-up. Or how about the folks that yell at you to get your attention so they can show their appreciation for the old car? When I drive and hit the aoogah horn, kids and adults alike lite-up with grins. At times like these, I really don't care what happens to the value of my cars. I am happy to get back under them, make them a little better, and go out cruising again. 

 

Must be the type cars that I choose to own, that make me feel this way. They aren't anything special. They aren't real valuable or collectable. Must be why I guess I don't ponder their future value. My cars sure bring the smiles from both my face and others, when I pass by. I try to be smart about the money I put into them.  We'll go for ice cream in the Plymouth! My future is seen below here. How utterly boring for some, I know. But I'm having fun!

 

 

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Reminds me that I took the SLK out today. Top up, windows up, AC on and glad I just changed the cabin air filter. Normally in this weather the top would have been down. World is changing.

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