mcmasterson Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 Replacing vacuum hoses and thought I'd throw in an "easy" pcv grommet as it looked original. Well it was brittle enough that top came off and bottom portion fell into intake hole. I've never had the intake off but does anybody know if the valley pan is sealed against the back of block or is it plausible it fell behind the valley pan and is now resting on the cam? If that's the case, what's the probability of engine damage should I fire up the engine? I've read several forums on other cars where several say they would let it ride and drive it. I could see of it stayed on top of the valley pan that would be ok, but worrisome that it makes it way past the cam. Anybody have the same issue with this? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Buick Riviera Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 (edited) I assume we are talking about 400/430/455 engine ? Most likely it rests on the valley pan metal gasket and it will stay there. The metal gasket has the upward edges, that in my opinion will prevent further falling down of the grommet. You can also get endoscope camera for android telephone or tablet (they are quite cheap and surprisingly good), to locate the grommet through the hole it felt in - knowing the location maybe you could get it out with some copper wire, or with some other creative tricks 😉 ? https://www.amazon.com/s?k=endoscope+camera+for+android&crid=PEWJCCPS27NM&sprefix=endoscope+camera%2Caps%2C251&ref=nb_sb_ss_i_1_16 I have one of those $20 price area and it is really good ! Look for the one with LED light integrated (I think all of them have it, but just double check) Edited April 17, 2020 by George Buick Riviera (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcmasterson Posted April 18, 2020 Author Share Posted April 18, 2020 Yeah the 430 engine. I borrowed a camera and discovered that the valley pan which is identical to image above actually has the edges pointed down. Also the pan stops about 1/4-3/4" from ends of block. And with camera discovered it managed to roll down and underneath the pan. I can see it but so far cant get anything to snag it. Waiting for my flexible claw to arrive and hopefully that will do. Thanks for the reply! Should have left the darn thing alone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocky5517 Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 Not to be a wise guy, but did you try the old coat hanger and bubble gum trick? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Buick Riviera Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 14 hours ago, mcmasterson said: the valley pan which is identical to image above actually has the edges pointed down. Well, my memory serves not that well anymore 😉 . Good luck with getting it out ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 You're talking about a piece of rubber, right...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcmasterson Posted April 18, 2020 Author Share Posted April 18, 2020 Yeah the bottom part of the rubber grommet for the pcv valve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 Well, if it were my car, I wouldn't loose any sleep over it. Worst case I can imagine is it manages to get sucked into an intake runner and finds itself against the valve stem, where it will likely be further decomposed, with bits sucked into the combustion chamber and burned. I don't think it will even be noticed. Worst case worst case is a piece momentarily gets caught between the valve and the seat before getting pulverized and burnt up. In that case there could be a momentary hiccup before its gaseous remains pass out the tailpipe... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 Or it causes the valve to stay open and the piston comes up and hits the valve. 😱 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 When it's iron/steel vs rubber (even hard, dried-out rubber), the rubber looses. That's without considering the 1500 degree combustion temperature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 But the 1500° temperature does not have an instantaneous effect on the rubber. It won't vaporize it, it would 5ake a second or two to melt it. Yuck, melted rubber in my oil passages. It's probably worth the cost of some gaskets to take some time and do it properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcmasterson Posted April 18, 2020 Author Share Posted April 18, 2020 40 minutes ago, EmTee said: Well, if it were my car, I wouldn't loose any sleep over it. Worst case I can imagine is it manages to get sucked into an intake runner and finds itself against the valve stem, where it will likely be further decomposed, with bits sucked into the combustion chamber and burned. I don't think it will even be noticed. Worst case worst case is a piece momentarily gets caught between the valve and the seat before getting pulverized and burnt up. In that case there could be a momentary hiccup before its gaseous remains pass out the tailpipe... At the moment it's under the valley pan so I worry it getting past cam and into the oil. I feel it might be ok though too. I've got a flexible claw coming this week. I can see it with the camera but the position of it is challenging to get anything to it. I've tried wire, combination of vacuum lines attached to shop vac. Duct tape wont work. Fingers crossed that claw thingy will be able to snag it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 OK, gotcha -- even less of a concern. Will probably live the rest of its life in the valley. Worst case is it falls into the sump... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Buick Riviera Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 3 hours ago, EmTee said: OK, gotcha -- even less of a concern. Will probably live the rest of its life in the valley. Worst case is it falls into the sump... That is the only thing I would be afraid of - the rubber could fall apart into smaller pieces and could reduce oil suction at the oil pick up tube. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telriv Posted April 19, 2020 Share Posted April 19, 2020 I had one of the same thing happen MANY years ago.. At 1st. it was in the valley pan then at some point feel into the pan where it stayed for almost 15 years. NEVER broke up into more pieces or anything else. It got trapped in the sludge that normally builds up in the pan after so many years, unless you are one of those oil change freaks who changes your oil every 3 months regardless of mileage. Even then I really feel it will NOT break up into smaller pieces. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcmasterson Posted April 19, 2020 Author Share Posted April 19, 2020 8 minutes ago, telriv said: I had one of the same thing happen MANY years ago.. At 1st. it was in the valley pan then at some point feel into the pan where it stayed for almost 15 years. NEVER broke up into more pieces or anything else. It got trapped in the sludge that normally builds up in the pan after so many years, unless you are one of those oil change freaks who changes your oil every 3 months regardless of mileage. Even then I really feel it will NOT break up into smaller pieces. That's reassuring to hear. How did it make it past the cam into the oil pan without getting ripped to shreds? Weird! I'm going give it a retrieval shot with the mechanics claw next week and if no luck I probably will just fire it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telriv Posted April 19, 2020 Share Posted April 19, 2020 I am going to assume that it is now lodged/hanging in the rear cam area. There is a good sized void at the rear of the cam void of cam lobes. It will likely just fall down once the engine is started & will NOT be broken up by the cam lobes. IF it makes you feel that uncomfortable I would just remove the intake. The hard part is the re-installing of the intake because of it's weight. Playing around trying to retrieve it you may possibly dislodge it & it will fall into the pan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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