jeff53

direction of spin

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Thanks again for all the threads. I' ve got my answer. 

   Someone mentioned- since I could run along side of it and start it( aka push start) It was a manual- most be kind of a young person- No it's a Hydramatic.

      And other than Jacking up the rear wheels and turning the wheel by hand-- Which is never gonna happen at my age ( I'll rig something up first) --- So my answer is simple--- get a bunch of ICY HOT soak in it, find slippery stuff like cardboard put my tools on it,tell my wife we need new pillows and strap old pillows to my knees then make sure there's  a very sturdy chair  within inches- to use to help get off the floors-- then leave everything on and in place- go bench test the starter- and do everything in reverse---- and pray it was the starter button that caused the problem and not something serious. 

     I would post photos of what I got back- from that shop-- but no need -they are on yelp.---- Once the cars running again--- all I have to do is learn to paint-- where the last person left off.

       Funny most people would have tossed in the towel long ago- and I'm not even a "car nut"- maybe just a nut---- I figure my car deserves at least a decent retirement too.- Plus we all know- tech is great- but I'm pretty sure very few of the new cars will last 70 years plus. 1st  photo- bought car for work-74 $150.. 2nd photo- drove to mechanic shop ( just rustoleum paint to keep from rusting) 3rd photo After 4-5 months ( in 2017) 

1948-1974 Dan and I 001.jpg

DSCF0242.JPG

DSCN4357 (2).JPG

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OY. Problem is few these daze have seen a transmission like the original  Hydra-Matic. Two big differences are:

1: rear pump

2: fluid coupling

 

Having both of these means an early Hydramatic can be push started, a Turbo-Hyramatic with a torque converter and front pump only can't. A jammed starter may stop everything.

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Well I never considered the car had an automatic transmission. Forget what suggested above. 

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Btw haven't needed this century but back in the day, an old tire strapped to the back allowed a push start with another car. Also have used this method to start a recalitrant Harley (had friends who could start a magneto Sportster with their hand. I couldn't but could rebuild a Tillotson in about 10 minutes so was popular in some circles).

 

Which brings us back to "is the starter jammed or free ?"

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On 4/9/2020 at 9:49 PM, padgett said:

That said there were reverse rotation cams. Used in twin engine marine applications to reduce harmonics and torque. Dunno what triples (like PT Boats) used.

Packard engines in PT Boats all rotated in the same direction as did the wheels they powered.  Center engine was direct drive to its wheel whereas the two outboard engines were installed in an opposite direction to the center engine and transmitted their power to their wheels through V drive transmissions with their shafts passing aft underneath the engines.

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Yes I remember- grab any old tire and away you go- just don't mess up the chrome. Not sure about the starter being jammed- shouldn't be- friggin car hasn't moved out of it's spot since 2017- after I check and recheck everything once more- put the hood springs back on tomorrow I'll try to start it one more time then yank the starter. Which is a 2-3 day job for me--- yeah,yeah only 2 bolts-  1 for each day(maybe) and the 3rd to put it back on.

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Hi Jeff. Thanks for the pictures. Great car. Should keep you busy in these times. Just a small note about running the engine. I do this to warm and circulate the coolant in an all alloy engine. I run the engine at a fast idle for about 30+ minutes . 2000 rpm + .. Make sure it gets hot right through. This helps to  draw out the moisture and stops the combustion chamber and plugs from fouling.  Letting engine idle is bad news. It’s  better  to just leave it and take it for a  proper drive when you can.  Keep well. Take care.  And I can’t see the the elephant!!! 

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Or you could inspect the wiring and test the battery and see if a full 6 volts is getting to the starter, and check if the switch or relay is working, then fix what is wrong.

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6 hours ago, ejboyd5 said:

Packard engines in PT Boats all rotated in the same direction as did the wheels they powered.  Center engine was direct drive to its wheel whereas the two outboard engines were installed in an opposite direction to the center engine and transmitted their power to their wheels through V drive transmissions with their shafts passing aft underneath the engines.

Granted, I only served one enlistment so maybe the boats and ships with wheels came after wooden ships and the iron men that sailed on them

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4 hours ago, Rusty_OToole said:

Or you could inspect the wiring and test the battery and see if a full 6 volts is getting to the starter, and check if the switch or relay is working, then fix what is wrong.


If only someone had suggested that earlier...

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Fred-thanks for that info- I 've always been told to let it idle.and the last time I did- it sound great, but I let it idle for a long time- which with the cost of gas ( then) it was chewing up a lot of peanuts.

  Rusty- I will check and recheck everything again connection -wiring- read out as I mentioned. I'll try almost anything 1st before getting down on the concrete  and pulling the "starter".  That's why the bypassing the starter" question was asked in the first place- But I got all the answer to everything else-- which will come in handy maybe later. Shoot if I could trust the shops around here- I would have just had it towed in. I'm sure they could use the work- but I would have to have it towed 20 miles away. Makes me feel bad too because I'm a strong believer in the little shop--but my last 2 1/2 yrs. I'm just tired and want the beast painted and to run nice and be safe. My wife 74- has never ridden in it and my only goal 2 1/2 years ago- was make sure the car was safe, dependable and a decent cheap Earl Scheib or Maaco paint job-- because you can;t drive a paint job. and paying 10-17 thousand for a car that would only be worth about 20-27 - is stupid. The blue and gray you see- is a total of 17 spray paint cans- farm implement type paint- just to keep it from rusting- until I could getting it painted. Rust Oleum- I'm told would start peeling in about 2 years.

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I had a car painted by Earl Scheib once and they painted everything: tires, moldings, seats,...

OTOH I gotten decent jobs from Maaco. Just depends on the shop.

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Can you tell me if the Pontiac has an electric pushbutton on the dash or the kind you stomp with your foot?

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If you have been reading the threads- it's push button on the floor which connects to  the push button on top of the starter.. Why? I've already decided to take off the starter--- tomorrow

 

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In that case there should be a cable direct from the bat to the starter and a mechanical switch on the starter. Not much to go wrong, if the battery is good the cable is good the ground is good and no dirty connections then the only thing left is a bad switch or bad starter.

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Fagedaboud domani. (The Yellow Rolls Royce)

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Excuse the Truck driver lingo--- But Hot Dog you buffaloes helped a ton.---  I got the boat to turn over-without taking the starter off- I was afraid once I got down on the floor I'd be there 'til all this virus crap was over- no way in hell my wife could help- I'm a light guy @ 265 lb. Oh yeah she would've brought me a blanket and tossed some vittles. So thanks a lot to all. Now for the next trouble shoot.

     The Ground wire from "Neg" battery post- got hot.--- not sure what that means but again I'll check and recheck ( Pos- post on battery was okay-( not hot) so something must be touching somewhere.

  Thanks again

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Posted (edited)

Find the hottest spot and look for a bad connection there. If the whole cable length gets hot, instead of just one spot, the cable may be too small.

Edited by Bloo (see edit history)
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this might be an easy way to see if the engine is locked up. put the car in high gear, and get a friend to help you push it a foot or 2. mark a spot on crank pullt to see if it actually turns if you cant watch and push at the same time. another simple proceedure, tap the starter a couple times with a hammer, i've seen it get a starter that didn't work, work flawlessly for years afterward

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To Cheezestaak2000- Flat ground in the garage is easy and yes tapping it is a good trick- The reason tapping works- is because sometimes - not often- the starter button on top will work it's way loose. 

   But thanks for the info- I'm not a mechanic by a long shot- but over the years I've learned to trouble shoot just about everything on this car- wiring- wipers-turn signals- I just don't do the mechanical stuff. That's why I worked in a friggin factory for the last 18 years when I was employed- to pay someone else- it's just finding the right people in this area, that's the problem. and the ting is most of them charge the same or close- to those guys that take their car to SEMA- like Kindig

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a poor ground will cause the hot cable due to resistance.if nothing else it was fun reading some of the answers.I think your answers were filtered out Rusty as no one noticed your battery comment in the first few posts.

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54Vicky- No Rusty's battery suggestion wasn't filtered out- but it was one of the things I checked and rechecked- It's  doing it again today- so there's got to be a short somewhere.

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If just the negative terminal is getting hot, that is a resistive condition keeping the starter from getting full voltage, not a short.

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Padgett- you're it IS just the negative getting hot- right at the battery post. What do you mean- "resistive condition".- everything reads okay and battery is at 6.5. There's only 2 areas left that I can think of- 1- Might be a wire that goes from the coil (+) to the horn relay- but even with a coil wire missing- the usually "tries to turn over" and the #2 is That shop I took it to 2 years ago also took out the dash and left the ign. switch hanging with the key- Does the ign. switch itself need to be grounded? Right now it just hangs the and I try and turn it over- but here's the thing- it had been starting with no problem- unless I just wasn't aware that it was grounded.

 

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