A. Ballard 35R Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 Ralph de Palma Fiat Giants Despair 1909 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AHa Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 1903 Paris to Madrid/ Marcel Renault 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AHa Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, A. Ballard 35R said: Ralph de Palma Fiat Giants Despair 1909 Interesting to note the ripple in the rear tire. The more I look at that rear tire, the more I believe that is some kind of tread design. The "bumps" appear to go all the way around. Edited January 10, 2021 by AHa (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AHa Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 Motor from Lorraine Barrow’s car/Paris Madrid Race/1903 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayne sheldon Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 6 hours ago, AHa said: Definitely not a Ford of any year or model! The only thing "Ford" on that car is the logo. I am quite curious as to the story behind that? That is a model T Ford parked in the street behind it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AHa Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 7 hours ago, AHa said: This is actually a picture that originates on the AACA Forum though I captured it from the classic speedsters webpage. Classic Speedster does not list any other information. If it says "Ford," does that not make it a Ford? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AHa Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 (edited) Edited January 11, 2021 by AHa (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayne sheldon Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 AHa, Nice Cole 30! The non-Ford in question is very interesting. I spent some time last night and today wondering what it was. At my first quick glance, I considered an EMF. However looking closer pretty much dismissed that. The radiator shroud doesn't look right. The drop behind the engine and at the rear of the frame should help with identification, but I do not recognize it (I do have the feeling that I have seen that before however?). So many midsize cars in the 1910 to 1913 era did not drop that much. The outboard mounted full elliptic rear spring should also be a major clue. EMF and early four cylinder Studebaker did have that feature, however again, the radiator is not correct for them. The ten spoke front wheels should also be a significant clue. A really neat looking car! I suppose it could have been assembled from miscellaneous parts and/or heavily modified? It may even have been built and run by one of the many local dealers that handled both Fords and other cars. However, by that time, Henry was trying to force most of those into exclusive dealer contracts. Many of them had to chose between selling Fords or something else. Henry also wanted to limit their options for after-market accessories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A. Ballard 35R Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 Irwin Bergdoll in Benz 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A. Ballard 35R Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 Chadwick Giants Despair 1907 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A. Ballard 35R Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 Giants Despair 1907 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A. Ballard 35R Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 Giants Despair 1907 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reicholzheimer Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 On 1/7/2021 at 4:16 PM, Steve Moskowitz said: I hate to be a tease but I am! Two boxes of personal papers and photos from Ralph Mulford have just been discovered and given to me. Many of you know the story that some claimed he really was the winner of the Indy 500 in 1911 but that theory has never been proven by historians. In any case there are some amazing photos and letter after letter from him. I have no time at all to go through them now but I looked at a few of the photos and just about wet myself!! This is very interesting. Can you post something for us to see? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 Bergdoll clippings from the H.D.Carpenter scrapbook. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AHa Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 (edited) Barney Oldfield sitting in Premier car built for 1905 American Trial race Edited January 14, 2021 by AHa (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AHa Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 Henry Ford, Edsel, and Barney Oldfield with Ford Racer. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AHa Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 Barney Oldfield with some of his trophies. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AURktman Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 I absolutely love these photos! One day I want to scratch build a car that would be similar to these. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Moskowitz Posted January 15, 2021 Author Share Posted January 15, 2021 I have had little chance to go through the Mulford material...we are still burning the midnight oil with our move in to our new building. However, some of the photos I definitely posted before as they were in our library collection. Others brand new to me. The bulk of the letters wee between Mulford, Peter Helck and Charlie Betts. It culminated with a several part story in our magazine. They tried to get a book published but the one publisher skewered their writing, a rather biting criticism of their literary style. He told them they should have emulated Roger Kahn's book "The Boys of Summer." I will try over the weekend to publish a few photos. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AHa Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 On 1/14/2021 at 7:06 PM, AURktman said: I absolutely love these photos! One day I want to scratch build a car that would be similar to these. Doesn't everybody! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Moskowitz Posted January 16, 2021 Author Share Posted January 16, 2021 Well I promised to send some this weekend but only grabbed three off the top, I am not sure if any are previously on this thread but I do have the luxury of identifying the cars and drivers. The first photo with #3 at the bottom is from Sheepshead Bay in 1916.. Puegeot #3 Aitken, Peusun# 12 Franchi, Maxwell #11 Rickenbacker, Hudson #21 Vail and Peugeot #9 Mulford. Photo#2 Is Ralph Mulford in the #9 Frontenac and Tommy Milton in the #7 Deusenberg at Uniontown, PA May 16, 1918 Photo#3 is the #10 Duesenberg with Jimmy Murphy, #12 Meteor (Duesenberg) and the #9 Deusenberg with Tommy Milton on 2/28/1920 250 mile race at a 1 1/4 mile track in Beverly Hills Once again, I did not take these pictures and was not in attendance! 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 Thanks Steve! I got this shot off a Google search for Ira Vail Hudson, may be the same car in your photo. Not the Hudson he raced at INDY in 1919 and later spent its life in Philadelphia until D. Cameron Peck found it on a used car lot. Bob 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 Steve, This is the ex Ira Vail 1919 INDY 500 Hudson when H.D. Carpenter owned it. We will never know if that is Mr. Carpenter or one of his drivers in the photo. I have all the related paperwork on the car while it was in Philadelphia. The car is in South Korea today in the Samsung collection, I lost my chance of owning it when the Harrah collection sold it for around $24,000. Bob 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Moskowitz Posted January 16, 2021 Author Share Posted January 16, 2021 Bob, I "lost" my chance of getting a bunch of cars I was drooling over at those auctions. I had the desire just not the money. I need to find someone locally to post more of these pictures. Hard to find the time but I will try to weed out some of the better ones. Most of the 8 X 10's are identified but the smaller ones are not. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 Hope you can find someone to post the photos and whatever info is on the back. Lost race car info is always great to see. Bob 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Moskowitz Posted January 19, 2021 Author Share Posted January 19, 2021 Photo 1-1920 #33 Mulford Special driven by Ralph Mulford. On the scales at the Indy 500 Photo 2-Ralph Mulford racing up Pike's Peak cog railway in 1920 Photo 3-1912 Knox with Ralph Mulford and Billy Chandler at Indy 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 Steve, Are there more photos of the 1920 Duesenberg INDY car? Odd to see two radiator caps & motometers. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Moskowitz Posted January 19, 2021 Author Share Posted January 19, 2021 Yes, Bob I believe there are quite a few but can't handle that right now. Good eyes, I missed seeing that. In the actual photograph it appears they are offset so the driver can see...really interesting. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AHa Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 The cockpit of that Knox is quite cozy. We are talking about a completely different period of history but I, for one, would be very uncomfortable with a man cuddled up next to me like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 50 minutes ago, Steve Moskowitz said: Yes, Bob I believe there are quite a few but can't handle that right now. Good eyes, I missed seeing that. In the actual photograph it appears they are offset so the driver can see...really interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 50 minutes ago, Steve Moskowitz said: Yes, Bob I believe there are quite a few but can't handle that right now. Good eyes, I missed seeing that. In the actual photograph it appears they are offset so the driver can see...really interesting. I looked for another photo in the Jack Fox INDY 500 book but they used the same photo. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayne sheldon Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 (edited) On 1/19/2021 at 6:04 AM, Steve Moskowitz said: The story behind this photo is quite interesting, and quite obscure. I won't claim to know all the "facts", as I have read so many different things from different sources. When I was in high school, my dad bought the 1927 Paige I now have to be the 'great family project'. I did as much research as I could at that time about the Paige automobile and their history. One story, I found in a couple of automobile history books back then, was that Paige had held the Pike's Peak hill climb record for two years! I, a few years later, found out that that story wasn't exactly true. When I found the actual records listed in a couple books, Paige was not on those lists. For at least fifteen more years, I looked for the real story. I even searched the early days of the internet. No real story. I found mentions that Paige had made it to the top of Pikes Peak in the fastest recorded time. But not the official race record. And it was well recorded and reported that they went up on the "cog railway". But no reason was given. Finally, only a few years ago (and unfortunately shortly before a computer meltdown lost the link to the source of the story), I found a story that made some sense. For those not familiar with the "official" Pikes Peak Hill-climb, a bit of background. Somewhat more than a hundred years ago, back in the days of horses and buggies still, a road was cut winding around the rough rocky and wooded side of the mountain. In the early days, horse teams, stage coaches and buggies would trek up that mountain, for a nominal fee to the builders of the road. Of course once automobiles came around, they also had to prove their mettle. Racing of course was tried, but discouraged due to the risks of blind curves. Eventually, that was accommodated. Once a year, the road is closed to "normal" traffic. And a well organized race is held. Even in the 1920s, a lot of automobiles took part in that race. The cars begin, individually, at short time intervals. The idea is, that as long as the cars are grouped to allow for time differentials to hopefully keep some space between them all the way up. According to the story, Ralph Mulford started out on schedule in his Paige on the day of the race. The new Paige 6-66 was an incredible car. Although Harry Jewett (president of Paige Detroit) would not allow the company to race their cars (years earlier, a friend of his was nearly killed in a company sponsored race), other people did race them. And Harry J did allow time trials occasionally. The new 6-66 already held a few speed records, including one sort of "fastest production automobile" (some caveats). Ralph Mulford started out doing great. Official and unofficial timers alike were clocking him ahead of every other car! Some distance up the mountainside, unbeknownst to Ralph, one of the other racers skidded and spun his car around. No real details given, but apparently, the driver did not or could not turn back around where he was. So he proceeded down the hill a short ways tying to dodge the upcoming cars! A collision ensued, and the road became blocked. Ralph Mulford became stopped, and lost so much time that he could not recover from it. It was said that Ralph Mulford was able to continue once the road was cleared. It was also said that he raised objections with race officials, either to restart, or have his time adjusted to allow for the delay he was not responsible for. However, the reality was, there was no way to get his car down from the hill to restart until all cars had started and passed his point. Too late in the day for him to restart. And it was said, that race officials were not willing to adjust his time. It was also not acceptable to close the road an extra day for him to retry later. Ralph Mulford was not a happy man! Several timers had told him that he was well ahead of all other cars time-wise at the point of the accident and delay. And he was told he had no recourse. I do not know offhand just when this happened? A day or two or more? Ralph Mulford took his Paige 6-66, and between cog railroad trains, ran up the railway right-of-way, a significantly shorter, but significantly much more difficult way up the mountain. And he beat the hill-climb record time. By how much? I never found out. So this is a photo of the famous not-so-famous run up the cog railroad! Thank you Steve M for posting this great picture! Edited January 22, 2021 by wayne sheldon I hate leaving typos! (see edit history) 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 THANK YOU WAYNE! If you hadn't taken the time to tell the above story nobody would have known this interesting piece of history. We drove up Pikes Peak in the family wagon back in the 1990's, a trip everyone should take at some time. Bob 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walt G Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 Austin Clark drove his 1929 Lincoln model L phaeton up and down Pikes Peak twice. He made a post card of it at the peak from a photo he took. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzcarnerd Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 This one was posted on a facebook page recently. As usual no information supplied. I was intrigued by the wire wheel hub on the trailer. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hddennis Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 Google image search turned up this interesting story. Okay race car fans, what the heck is a " Douglas Air Cooled"? Douglas aircraft engine? Howard Dennis https://www.worldofspeed.org/archive-blog-1/2018/9/7/oregons-own-the-duchess-only-woman-race-car-owner-promoter 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 (edited) THANKS HOWARD! This car is restored and well, saw in in the Briggs Cunningham collection back around 1975. I hope it is in the Collins Collection now. There was a photo of it on a trailer behind a tow car with a lot of debris around it during the hurricane of 1938 somewhere in New England. Now I have to find some of her cars that Bob Swanson drove for her. Best wishes for 2021! Bob The car today in the Revs Institute in Florida, Fred Frame once owned the car. Edited January 27, 2021 by 1937hd45 (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 Howard, I think the "Air Cooled Douglas" in the above link may have been a Ranger aircraft engine. It was common to turn them 180 degrees with the cylinders on top and power race cars with them. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AURktman Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 59 minutes ago, 1937hd45 said: THANKS HOWARD! This car is restored and well, saw in in the Briggs Cunningham collection back around 1975. I hope it is in the Collins Collection now. There was a photo of it on a trailer behind a tow car with a lot of debris around it during the hurricane of 1938 somewhere in New England. Now I have to find some of her cars that Bob Swanson drove for her. Best wishes for 2021! Bob The car today in the Revs Institute in Florida, Fred Frame once owned the car. I love these two photos, it really shows the size of those cars. I think they appear small with no human frame of reference, almost like a small shoe until someone sits in it or stands next to it. They are a lot larger than they appear alone. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 (edited) ^^^^^^ That restored blue #4 is a huge car, there was a magazine feature on it back in the 1970's with a cut a way drawing. Based on former INDY 500 car it was rebuilt in the mid 1930's with that body. I remember it had a Bugatti GP car rear axle. Just spent some more time with Google, here is the history on the car. Bob 1930 Fred Frame Duesenberg | Revs Institute Edited January 28, 2021 by 1937hd45 (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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