Brooks Steam Car Refurbish

[alsancle]

This is a cool video of a guy who is going to refurbish a Brooks steam car.   Brooks was after Stanley and made in Canada.  There are maybe a dozen known survivors.  They used a Zapron like body to cut down on weight.   This car is missing its body, which makes a lot of sense if your body was made from cloth.

 

 

[John Kelso]

Restored a Brooks several years ago, found the performance at bit lacking compared to a Stanley.

[alsancle]

2 hours ago, JAK said:

Restored a Brooks several years ago, found the performance at bit lacking compared to a Stanley.

 

Based on my naive understanding of the two,  the Brooks was quite similar in all most all respects to the last condenser Stanley's.  

 

I've never been in a steam car in my life,  so I have no idea,  but I my understanding is  that the earlier non-condenser Stanley's are much faster because they are lighter.

[alsancle]

2 hours ago, JAK said:

Restored a Brooks several years ago, found the performance at bit lacking compared to a Stanley.

 

I don't suppose you have any pictures you might be able to share?

[John Kelso]

No I don't have pictures, the car was unexciting, It was sold to Jeff Theabold in England.

I was clocked on the Bristol NASCAR track on the Friday before the AACA Spring Meet in Bristol at near 90PH, the car

was not operating at maximum. My limitation not the car.

[alsancle]

The non condensing cars are much faster than a late Stanley or a Brooks because it is basically the same boiler and engine but 1/2 the weight.  Correct?

[alsancle]

Btw,   going 90 MPH in that is insane.

[StanleyRegister]

This Stanley is now in the Audrain Automobile Museum.  They say it has a top speed of 70, maybe that's all the faster they care to drive it.  🙂  Goggles required...

 

https://audrainautomuseum.org/cars/1908-stanley-model-h-5/

[alsancle]

52 minutes ago, StanleyRegister said:

This Stanley is now in the Audrain Automobile Museum.  They say it has a top speed of 70, maybe that's all the faster they care to drive it.  🙂  Goggles required...

 

https://audrainautomuseum.org/cars/1908-stanley-model-h-5/

besides the condenser and an extra 2,000 lbs what are the mechanical differences between that car and a 22-24 Stanley?

[StanleyRegister]

The fundamental design of the car stayed the same.  They're both 20hp, and the Stanley engine design remained the same, with just some beefing up of parts.  Water & fuel pumps are very similar, but the late car pushes them with a gear-reduction crank on the rear axle instead of linking them right to the engine.  They're slower and quieter.  Boilers are identical.  The original superheater in a 1908 factory car was laid out differently from the later cars, and kind of clumsy, so people rarely build them that way now for any car.  The 1908 car used a single fuel system for both pilot and main burner, gasoline, while the later car uses kerosene for the main burner.

 

There were some mild technical advances.  The later car has a boiler water level indicator that's a little easier to read.  It also has an automatic device to manage the boiler water level, which makes a considerable difference in the driving experience.  Less manual twiddling of valves while driving.  Later cars also included an air pressure reserve tank, so that if you needed to add fuel pressure manually on the road, you wouldn't have to get out a pump.  The later cars also changed the engine oil supply from a small plunger pump to an industrial box lubricator.

 

There was actually one step backward.  With the addition of the condenser, the oil-filled exhaust steam returns to the water supply tank.  Oily water then goes into the boiler, which tends to coat the bottom, inhibiting heat transfer and increasing the odds of boiler damage.  Oil separators were available at the time, but for some reason the Stanley company never chose to use one.  They changed their boiler construction a little as a kind of workaround, but it makes much more sense to just leave the oil out.

 

But when you can drive one, it doesn't take too many adjustments in your technique to drive the other.

[alsancle]

So I think I noticed that the Brooks we were discussing had the super heater.  I assume that is a post boiler mechanism to heat the steam to a higher temp?

 

Also,  do Stanley owners add oil separators when they restore the condenser cars or is that just an issue everybody has?

 

thanks!

 

A.J.

[StanleyRegister]

Correct.  It adds energy and gives more expansion in the cylinders.

 

Some people add separators.  Some float oil-soaking pigs in the water supply tank.  A few resort to what Stanleys did, using steel tubes instead of copper and welding them to the bottom head.  This is a harder boiler to build, and it reduces the effectiveness of one of the safety features of the Stanley boiler design - soft tubes that collapse and leak if there's a pressure incident that has managed to dodge all the other safety devices (rare), and bleeding the pressure down to 0.

 

Some people just say the heck with it, disconnect the condenser, dump the engine exhaust, and stop for water along with all the non-condensers.

[alsancle]

11 hours ago, StanleyRegister said:

Correct.  It adds energy and gives more expansion in the cylinders.

 

Some people add separators.  Some float oil-soaking pigs in the water supply tank.  A few resort to what Stanleys did, using steel tubes instead of copper and welding them to the bottom head.  This is a harder boiler to build, and it reduces the effectiveness of one of the safety features of the Stanley boiler design - soft tubes that collapse and leak if there's a pressure incident that has managed to dodge all the other safety devices (rare), and bleeding the pressure down to 0.

 

Some people just say the heck with it, disconnect the condenser, dump the engine exhaust, and stop for water along with all the non-condensers.

 

Thanks!    I've been reading quiet a bit so I know the lingo,  but there are still many things about steam cars that confuse me.      So,  how much water does a non condensing car car,   and how much does a condensing car carry and how far can they go?

[StanleyRegister]

Capacity varies by the car.  People usually figure about 1 mile to the gallon for non-condensers, and steam tour arrangers try to make sure there's a water stop every 25 miles. or so  You end up developing a sharp eye for houses with water hoses hanging out front.

[alsancle]

8 hours ago, StanleyRegister said:

Capacity varies by the car.  People usually figure about 1 mile to the gallon for non-condensers, and steam tour arrangers try to make sure there's a water stop every 25 miles. or so  You end up developing a sharp eye for houses with water hoses hanging out front.

 

How far do the condensing cars go before they run out of water?

[StanleyRegister]

Unfortunately there's always loss.  The condenser can't process all of the exhaust of an engine under heavy load, so the system just vents the excess.  But you could probably go 100-150 miles.  Enough so that you wouldn't have to worry about the disappearance of the horse troughs back in the teens.

[alsancle]

2 hours ago, StanleyRegister said:

Unfortunately there's always loss.  The condenser can't process all of the exhaust of an engine under heavy load, so the system just vents the excess.  But you could probably go 100-150 miles.  Enough so that you wouldn't have to worry about the disappearance of the horse troughs back in the teens.

 

Thanks.  So the limiting range on any steam car is not gasoline,  or kerosene,  but water.

[alsancle]

Here is part two of the series on the Brooks:

 

 

[Workshop George]

Good day all. The video and Brooks being restored is mine. I'm not sure if I mentioned it in the videos but I also have a second rolling chassis of sorts and a third consisting of a chassis, engine axle assembly, and a few other parts.  Spare parts and information are a bit thin on the ground to say the least, especially in the UK where I'm based.

[Workshop George]

On 4/10/2020 at 5:48 PM, JAK said:

Restored a Brooks several years ago, found the performance at bit lacking compared to a Stanley.

HI JAK - All of the Brooks stuff I have came from Jeff Theobald. Is the car in the video the one you had?

[alsancle]

17 hours ago, Workshop George said:

HI JAK - All of the Brooks stuff I have came from Jeff Theobald. Is the car in the video the one you had?

 

George,  I'm following your youtube videos.   Very cool.    You should post some pictures of the cars on here.   There is not a huge amount of Steam Car activity on this forum but there are definitely guys lurking that find it interesting.

 

 

[John Kelso]

George I knew Jeff and sold him the Keen he had, he also got about all the Brooks parts I had so some of yours may have passed through my hands.

The Brooks I had went to Australia.

Best of luck with yours, once you get that mix of kerosene,smoke and steam oil in your blood it never goes away

[MDL]

Hello I am new here. I have a brooks in canada I would like to contact you to discuss  the cars .I would really like some pictures of your burner and boiler.  I just had a new asme boiler built here in canada  and am in the process  of dealing  with the  burner.   Thanks

[Workshop George]

 

Hi MDL 

 

You can contact me on george@workshopgeorge.com

I'm more than happy to discuss anything to do with the cars though I feel you may know a lot more than I do. I am on the brink of ordering a new boiler over here in the UK. I do have what I think is an original burner but it is in poor condition.

 

[durospeed]

I

 

Edited April 29, 2021 by durospeed (see edit history)

[MDL]

Hi George mark here I have sent a couple of  emails are you getting them. Is your email been Changed?   Please contact me .  Thanks   mark

[shekoole]

Have some parts for brooks.  Pumps and tanks.  

can send pics.  Reply if any interest.  shekool@shaw.ca

[alsancle]