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The Carburetor Shop Virtual Carburetor Museum


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Great. Jon is probably the foremost expert on carbs.  Could take what he says to Pebble.

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Jon, I notice there is no Cadillac Johnson section...........which is appropriate, because to call that hopeless pile of trash a carburetor is a disservice to something that would actually function to control the air/fuel ratio..............like an old boot that you use to pour fuel into the intake manifold........😎

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Ed - as time permits, I will add more exhibits; although I don't have a lot for Johnson. Johnson did offer some useful "glove box pamphlets" that gave the driver adjustment information, but doubt seriously that it worked. I have a difficult time getting enthused about a carburetor company that put an electrical resistance heating plate in the carburetor bowl on some models to preheat the fuel!

 

I do have a Fish carburetor to picture, and pictures of the very rare Pogue carburetor.

 

Also have a Kingston two-barrel prototype for the flathead Ford that was never produced.

 

And a bunch of other stuff. The initial exhibits are just from pictures that I already have on my computer.

 

Jon.

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I like the three barrels better.

Found my picture of the Pontiac dual quads and 2bbl manifold in Pete McCarthy's book. What carbs did it take ? (note the Pontiac part number, 9772128.

 

ponitiacdualquad2bbl.jpg

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1 hour ago, edinmass said:

Jon, I notice there is no Cadillac Johnson section...........which is appropriate, because to call that hopeless pile of trash a carburetor is a disservice to something that would actually function to control the air/fuel ratio..............like an old boot that you use to pour fuel into the intake manifold........😎

 

It is however great at transferring the contents of your gas tank onto the ground 

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Better than dipping your tie in TEL and waving it over a carb.

 

ps looks like the center carb might have been a Stromberg 97.

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Padgett - it wasn't a two-barrel! The two holes are connected to an 90 degree adapter that then is connected to a Carter type YH sidedraft carb (like the one I pictured for the 1953 Corvette). The carbs would have been Carter AFB's, either the 3443s (750 CFM) or the 3444s (675 CFM). 

 

There are some pictures of the complete setup with the adapter and the YH floating around. Google Pontiac bathtub. It should come up somewhere.

 

Jon.

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36 minutes ago, JV Puleo said:

Just out of curiosity, is there an updraft carburetor that can be used to replace the Johnson?


 

OK,  they suck. They are terrible, they shouldn’t be used on a lawnmower. All that said, with lots of work, you can get the car to start and run correctly........but if any other portion of the fuel system or ignition system has issues, you won’t be a happy camper. Dialing in a Cadillac from 1907-1935 4,8,12,or 16 can be very challenging. Fact is most people give up on them, and don’t work the entire car to solve all the issues. All Cadillacs have issues. And too many people run electric fuel pumps to cheat them out.......which is asking for a fire.......

Edited by edinmass (see edit history)
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Posted (edited)

Lincoln did not use Johnson, they used Stromberg, and it was an excellent carburetor, absolutely no need to replace.

 

We have not yet found an updraft that will function in place of the Johnson because of the rainbow manifold, at least on the later cars.

 

At one time we offered a pair of Zenith for the V-12 and V-16 (no rainbow).

 

Personally, I if had a 1925 or earlier, I would at least try to see if one of the Chevy Carter BB-1's would clear. The flange arrangement is different on the 1926 and newer such that an adapter would be required; but the late Chevy BB-1 should bolt to the 1925 and earlier, IF there is sufficient clearance.

 

While I like to keep the old cars stock if possible, I simply cannot recommend using a Johnson on a vehicle that is driven. I would rather have a non-original carburetor than an original molten stack of metal. Some of the zinc ally carburetors (the Stromberg U-2 is one) can be, and has been recast in better metal. Recasting the Johnson would only make for a more expensive Johnson.

 

I am certain that someone of Ed's talents could keep one running, at least for awhile, but I still wouldn't ride with him ;) if he were using a Johnson

 

Jon.

Edited by carbking (see edit history)
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padgett - if you haven't found it, go the the HAMB and search for: rare pontiac intake

 

There are several pictures in the thread.

 

Jon.

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4 hours ago, edinmass said:

Jon, I notice there is no Cadillac Johnson section...........which is appropriate, because to call that hopeless pile of trash a carburetor is a disservice to something that would actually function to control the air/fuel ratio..............like an old boot that you use to pour fuel into the intake manifold........😎

I leave the brass needle holder on the bench when resembling the Johnson  for the 1930 353 /355. My flooding problems seem to go away then and my carb has been this way for 8 years now. Just let the needle float free and use pure gas so there is no residue build up. I did this to another car on the Glidden tour 4 years ago having flooding problems and was towed back before I helped him out. I cursed the shop that put his carb on as they used studs rather than screws so I had to pull the intake to get it off. His problem went away after the retainer was left out  

Edited by Joe in Canada (see edit history)
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Posted (edited)

Pfeil - from my website: "

Fast forward to the mid-1950’s and the horsepower wars, plus the emergence of local dragstrips throughout the country. The racing sanctioning bodies often would allow internal engine modifications (camshaft, compression, etc.) but REQUIRE the use of the original carburetor(s). Thus the car manufacturers would offer twin 4-barrel setups with progressive linkage so that they could use carburetors THAT WERE TOO LARGE FOR NORMAL DRIVING. During normal street use, the engine would run only on the primary carb, and engage the secondary carb only under “spirited” street driving; BUT the larger carbs were present to provide sufficient airflow for engine modifications of larger camshafts, increased compression, etc. Street drivability with progressive linkage will never be as crisp as using solid linkage."

 

The 1956 Pontiac used solid linkage, with idle screws and choke assemblies on both carbs. The carbs were sized to the demand of the engine.

 

I do not know why Pontiac used idle circuits on both the 3433s and 3435s; but the Pontiac SD engineers were pretty sharp dudes! GUESSING the street idle would have been better.

 

I have twin 625's on my 390 shop truck; with solid linkage, idle and chokes on both.

 

Jon.

Edited by carbking (see edit history)
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I like that concept a lot! I see you also have an extensive selection of automotive trading cards and comics available for purchase, once I finish figuring out what I have, hopefully by this summer, I will be filling in some holes with you. 

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7 hours ago, carbking said:

Personally, I if had a 1925 or earlier, I would at least try to see if one of the Chevy Carter BB-1's would clear. The flange arrangement is different on the 1926 and newer such that an adapter would be required; but the late Chevy BB-1 should bolt to the 1925 and earlier, IF there is sufficient clearance.

 

 

I reckon if you were clever with an adaptor you could probably get a carb on each of the banks and not worry about the cross over (I've got a plate over my exhaust tube internally as it doesn't it).

 

These motors are finnicky across the board, the electrical system is also a dual point setup that is fiddly to get right and the manual interchanges what they call cylinder 1 in places.... 

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15 hours ago, edinmass said:

Jon, I notice there is no Cadillac Johnson section...........which is appropriate, because to call that hopeless pile of trash a carburetor is a disservice to something that would actually function to control the air/fuel ratio..............like an old boot that you use to pour fuel into the intake manifold........😎

Ed

The Johnson carburetor on our 1913 Cadillac has provided us with many trouble free miles. All I can say is:

 

My name is Raymond J. Johnson, Jr."

"Now you can call me Ray, or you can call me J, or you can call me Johnny, or you can call me Sonny, or you can call me Junie, or you can call me Junior; now you can call me Ray J, or you can call me RJ, or you can call me RJJ, or you can call me RJJ Jr, but you doesn't hasta call me Johnson!"

 

Best

Charley

IMG_20200329_204226213.jpg

IMG_20200329_204203847.jpg

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Hi Jon, any Miller / Master or the later Miller Hi Speed material ? I have a couple of Masters and a Hi Speed in my filing cabinet drawer where I keep a few interesting carbs I have picked up over the years.

 

Thanks , Greg

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Greg - I have some of the Masters. Will be adding exhibits as time permits. The initial posting was stuff of which I already had pictures.

 

Thanks, Jon.

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Very cool, Jon. Thanks for doing this. One small correction to the writeup about the Olds Jetfire sidedraft carb and turbo. There was no pump for the Turbo Rocket Fluid. Boost pressure was applied to the fluid tank, allowing the fluid to be injected passively in response to need. There was a regulator valve that was also referenced to boost pressure moderated by venturi vacuum.

 

450192d1323661538-gms-oem-preturbo-metha

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Thanks Joe - so the little double brass tank with the funny looking figure 8 diaphragms that I hand cut, that I have always called a pump, is actually a fluid control valve?

 

On another note, looking for my picture of the AA carb to post, but haven't found it yet. May have to take another. I am not certain if I still have a BB or not.

 

Still a lot of exhibits to add, but can only do so much at one time.

 

Jon.

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I have added several new exhibits today, and that will conclude the initial exhibits. Others will be added in the future.

 

Today's additions include:

 

Correcting the alcohol pump to alcohol control valve per Joe P.'s suggestion. Thank you Joe.

Pictures of the infamous Rochester type AA, and the one year only Rochester BB

The 1918 Oldsmobile 2-barrel that some enthusiasts keep calling a 4-barrel

Some rotary throttle carbs, including a prototype with gear drive on the throttle

The aftermarket Riley and Flynn high performance carburetors.

The Detroit Lubricator type 51 Cadillac V-12 carb.

The "high mileage" (along with a tooth fairy ;) ) Pogue and Fish carburetors.

 

Jon

 

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21 hours ago, carbking said:

Thanks Joe - so the little double brass tank with the funny looking figure 8 diaphragms that I hand cut, that I have always called a pump, is actually a fluid control valve?

 

That is correct.

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Here are a few photo's of my Miller HI-POWER. Note in my first post I called it a HI -Speed, memory plays tricks. I believe it was primarily sold along with the Miller head conversion for Model A Ford engines rather than any of Miller's

much more exotic racing engines. And thanks for the Master information you have added. Have you ever seen any material to support the story that it was at first a Miller product that was sold to Master ?

 

Greg

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DSC_9950 (2).JPG

Edited by 1912Staver (see edit history)
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According to Autoweek, Harry Miller founded the Miller Carburetor Company in 1909, sold the business in 1912, and founded the Master Carburetor Company in 1913.

 

I have never seen any factory Miller carburetor literature.

 

I do have quite a bit of Master carburetor literature, beginning in 1915, and the last dated one in 1918; so evidently, they were around for awhile.

 

We have sold quite a few conventional throttle carburetors to some pretty good restoration shops that were unable to make a rotary throttle carburetor work except idle and wide open throttle.

 

Jon.

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  • 2 months later...
On 3/29/2020 at 3:50 PM, carbking said:

Lincoln did not use Johnson, they used Stromberg, and it was an excellent carburetor, absolutely no need to replace.

 

We have not yet found an updraft that will function in place of the Johnson because of the rainbow manifold, at least on the later cars.

 

At one time we offered a pair of Zenith for the V-12 and V-16 (no rainbow).

 

Personally, I if had a 1925 or earlier, I would at least try to see if one of the Chevy Carter BB-1's would clear. The flange arrangement is different on the 1926 and newer such that an adapter would be required; but the late Chevy BB-1 should bolt to the 1925 and earlier, IF there is sufficient clearance.

 

While I like to keep the old cars stock if possible, I simply cannot recommend using a Johnson on a vehicle that is driven. I would rather have a non-original carburetor than an original molten stack of metal. Some of the zinc ally carburetors (the Stromberg U-2 is one) can be, and has been recast in better metal. Recasting the Johnson would only make for a more expensive Johnson.

 

I am certain that someone of Ed's talents could keep one running, at least for awhile, but I still wouldn't ride with him ;) if he were using a Johnson

 

Jon.

 

Jon: How can we check if a BB-1 will clear? I am running a Johnson on a 1924 Cadillac V63.

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When trying to adapt a non-original carburetor, one needs to make a "picture" of the area beneath the intake manifold, with dimensions to the nearest obstruction in all directions. The "picture" must be indexed on the center of the hole in the intake (easier to simply measure the center to center on the mounting holes, then measure from one or the other and add or subtract the radius).

 

One can then do the same for the carburetor.

 

If the carburetor picture fits inside the picture under the manifold, the carburetor will fit.

 

Jon.

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Is there any material you need ? I don't want to open a can of worms but I do have some DB bulletines on Zenith updrafts that might be helpful to others (as an example), and I know your site has a lot of traffic from guys looking for that type of thing.

 

 

Edited by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)
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