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has anyone or know someone who installed  a newer LS 

 

motor and trans swap  thinking about doing it to my 57 Caballero 

aparis 416.JPG

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1 hour ago, sherwood3333 said:

I'm running stock drive train, 

 

On 3/28/2020 at 10:46 AM, sherwood3333 said:

Has anyone or know someone who installed a newer LS 

Motor and trans swap  thinking about doing it to my 57 Caballero

Would also need an open drive line, diff and rear suspension to replace the torque tube design.

A lot of work and $$$.  Failed conversions are out there.

 

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On 3/27/2020 at 6:46 PM, sherwood3333 said:

has anyone or know someone who installed  a newer LS 

 

motor and trans swap  thinking about doing it to my 57 Caballero 

aparis 416.JPG

please don't ruin a caballero wagon, you want a toy with a chevy engine, go get a chevy car.

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On 3/27/2020 at 6:46 PM, sherwood3333 said:

has anyone or know someone who installed  a newer LS 

 

motor and trans swap  thinking about doing it to my 57 Caballero 

aparis 416.JPG

Wow! What beauty! Just wondering what the goal is with swap? More power mileage and Overdrive? When the suspension changed in 57 they did some re-engjneering, including a two piece driveshaft to enable lowering the car. A guy emailed me and said he was converting to open drive, but couldnt get the car "in the weeds" with a one piece open driveshaft! Ive heard some folks do frame swaps, but at my age and barely enuff summer in MN to get the cars driven, I cant imagine a positive case of cost vs benefit to doin it, but if ya just wanta and you got $ burnin a hole, Im sure lots of specialty rod shops would love to take on the project. Good luck!

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A person I know put a newer Buick engine '' 425 nailhead'' with an 700R automatic trans in his 57 Cabaiiero.. under hood it look stock but with more power and and with a 4 spd auto trans . 

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When eliminating the Dynaflow with its inherent torque tube, you have no way of positioningthe rear end.  You'll have to install a 'torque tube elimination kit." If you Google "Buick torque tube elimination" you'll find a lot of info from guys who've been there.

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Why do people click on the MODIFIED; M-O-D-I-F-I-E-D section and then moan about modifications. Just ignore them and go with what is probably the best engine ever, the GM LS and LT (late model). If anyone knows of another engine that has 400+ horsepower, gets 25mpg, and lasts 300k miles let us know. Probably more swap information and support available than any engine ever. Go for it.

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7 hours ago, mcdarrunt said:

Why do people click on the MODIFIED; M-O-D-I-F-I-E-D section and then moan about modifications. Just ignore them and go with what is probably the best engine ever, the GM LS and LT (late model). If anyone knows of another engine that has 400+ horsepower, gets 25mpg, and lasts 300k miles let us know. Probably more swap information and support available than any engine ever. Go for it.

 

Vintage Evan!   That's my buddy!

 

  Ben

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10 hours ago, mcdarrunt said:

Why do people click on the MODIFIED; M-O-D-I-F-I-E-D section and then moan about modifications. Just ignore them and go with what is probably the best engine ever, the GM LS and LT (late model). If anyone knows of another engine that has 400+ horsepower, gets 25mpg, and lasts 300k miles let us know. Probably more swap information and support available than any engine ever. Go for it.

 

I'd say its more out of loyalty and frustration  with the lack of support for other engines.

It may take 3D printing of metals to be more common and cheaper, but how many people would be intrigued by the thought of a 425 with the same technology fueling a LS?? Hell, the 322 is pretty much the same cubes as the LS.....could 400+ HP be gotten out of one?? 

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Anybody can have an LS...not everyone can have a nailhead :D.

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What a guy does to his own car is his business. I am going to run EFI injection and a modern electronic ignition on my nailhead and I am really interested in how it turns out. In a wagon, I think the nailhead torque of a 401/425 would be a natural fit. 

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12 minutes ago, bhemi said:

What a guy does to his own car is his business. I am going to run EFI injection and a modern electronic ignition on my nailhead and I am really interested in how it turns out. In a wagon, I think the nailhead torque of a 401/425 would be a natural fit. 

 

 You WILL be happy, if my experience is any example. Not a  V8 but should make no difference in outcome.

 

  Ben

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Is the fact that he wants a popular LS powertrain combination (which others will know how to work on, especially the "young 'uns") considered a "modification" or is it that a Buick 425 would be considered an "upgrade"?  

 

To me, the idea of "LS-ing it" is not much different than a small block Chevy being the "go to" engine for ANY street rod, in prior times.  Fords included.  Whatever was popular in the particular era.

 

The thing that I've been pondering is just how good an LS might be with a carb and dual-plane intake?  Or a dual-plane intake under a throttle body EFI with integrated ignition control?  Would it be better than a Nailhead with the same fuel/ignition system on it?  Of course, modern cyl head tech is better than anything back then, but taking the modern port EFI out of the mix, is it really worth it?  Just curious.

 

NTX5467

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that's kind of were I was going with swap, I like the EFI system, the 4 speed trans, also looking fore a great hwy car,  looks like I will have to swap out rear end, or would a frame swap be the better way to go,    thanks everyone for your feedback  

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A number of years ago a guy in California set his 57 Cabarello on a 79-80 era GM intermediate wagon chassis.  Open rear. Disk brakes, etc. He ran a dual quad 425 backed up by an ST400  switch pitch. 

 

It's been a looooong time since I even thought about him.  If I can dig up some old data on him, I'll let you know.

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I have seen a number of dyno tests comparing EFI and carburetors. The horsepower is pretty much the same and in some cases better with the carbs. The big issue is reliability and tuning. EFI wins hands down. It's just a little dull. I happen to think an LS is a great engine but it is plain ugly. A lot of work on LS swaps is done to hide the coils and plastic to make it pretty. 

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3 hours ago, bhemi said:

I have seen a number of dyno tests comparing EFI and carburetors. The horsepower is pretty much the same and in some cases better with the carbs. The big issue is reliability and tuning. EFI wins hands down. It's just a little dull. I happen to think an LS is a great engine but it is plain ugly. A lot of work on LS swaps is done to hide the coils and plastic to make it pretty. 

 

 

  Sometimes dull is good!  Kudos to those that keep carbs. I like my TBI  .

 

  Ben

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Well, if you're looking for EFI and electronic ignition, you CAN have that with your Nailhead too.  Pertronix and others should have distributors and many of the later self-learn EFIs have ignition control, too.  FirstBorn went with a system that (at least the earlier versions) based on the mid-80s GM computer and chips, for his EFI modification.

 

From what I've read in these forums, the "glory" of the self-learn EFIs can be variable!  Brand and software dependent, to say the least.  One guy put a name brand on his Buick Electra 430 and went from high-teens highway mileage (with the stock QJet and such) to no better than SINGLE DIGITS in one feld swoop.  Never could figure out why, either!  As some YouTube videos indicate, it's not all quite so plug-n-play as many make it out to be.  SO, research and shop well before laying out any money!!

 

I was considering one of the newer EFI units, but it would be hard to justify one with alleged fuel economy improvements.  Consider the existing rear axle ratio in your Buick, it would be a good candidate for a tHM200-4R upgrade.  EFI will not make any more power, per se, but what power it produces can be more responsive power on the road . . . dyno tests don't tell THAT story!  BOTH the self-learn TBI-style units and carbs are just air/fuel  mixers.  Which limits ultimate power production due to their capability one possible atomizing fuel better than the other one, one the same intake manifold.  A factory PORT fuel injection, sequential rather than "batch fire" is the best, but more expensive (needed to the tighter emissions controls of modern times, at the OEM level).

 

Using a more modern dual-plane intake with a more recent carb (Street Demon 650, electric choke, or Edelbrock AVS2 come to mind) can help without going all the way to EFI, while still having a more modern set-up under the hood.  Then a modern electronic ignition conversion will give you the more modern underhood things that "the young 'uns" are used to looking at, without the significant cost of a complete LS upgrade.

 

Frame swap?  Probably best with a GM frame rather than aftermarket, to me.  Better to possibly purchase "wear parts" for in the future.  From a local source rather than having to go to a "rod shop" or similar, with costs increasing for many reasons.

 

Much of the street rod stuff can look neat and be good, too.  BUT for the long term, staying close to OEM is probably the best way to go, if possible.  Parts can be sourced from "everywhere", usually, rather than just one source.

 

Lots of decisions.  Enjoy!

NTX5467

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A used GM frame is cheaper. It's basically a junk yard part. Most after market frame manufacturers use off the shelf components for the wear parts. I am using an Art Morrison builders frame for my '37. The front IFS is C6 Corvette, the rack is Opel, the brakes are Wilwood and the rear end is a Strange Engineering 9 inch with an Eaton TrueTrac . Those all have wide parts availability, probably better than an '80's or '90's chassis.  

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thanks again for all feed back, im thinking about using a 2010 suburban frame and drive train , wheelbase is 8" longer than the buicks. thinking it will give me the upgrades im looking for. 

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