Early (Pre-1910?) Two Seater

[Steve Hagy]

Hello!

 

Another fire chief has a new ride that he can drive and head to blazes in style.  If only I knew what it was.  As always I would like to know the year, make, model and style of car.  The hub cap has lettering above and below.  Above begins with a "T" and below starts with an "N".  I look forward to hearing from dozens of people!

 

Thank you.

 

Steve

[dustycrusty]

I wouldn't give too much gravitas to a poor resolution reading of a hubcap glinting in the sun. the "T" could actually be a "P", and the "N" an "H", then  it *could* be a Pope Hartford- they were used as the basis for a few conversions in that era.

 

Of course if it is actually a "T" & "N",  then it might be a rare example of that infamous early automobile marketing miss-step, the Thomas Non-Flyer  !!!

[1912Staver]

Here are a couple of other V.F.D. Chief's cars. Not sure if it is the same V.F.D. , Vancouver Canada fire dept. in these two photos from the Vancouver City Archives.

Definitely not the same vehicle however.  It also looks like all of Vancouver Canada's early vehicles were white so probably not the same department.

Greg

Edited March 24, 2020 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[nzcarnerd]

Whatever the mystery car is it is not that big, maybe 20hp or so, unlike some of the big stuff some fire chiefs used. Note one distinctive feature - the small curve of the front edge of the rear fender where it blends into the running boards. Something not seen on many cars.

 

[Steve Hagy]

8 hours ago, 1912Staver said:

Here are a couple of other V.F.D. Chief's cars. Not sure if it is the same V.F.D. , Vancouver Canada fire dept. in these two photos from the Vancouver City Archives.

Definitely not the same vehicle however.  It also looks like all of Vancouver Canada's early vehicles were white so probably not the same department.

Greg

Thanks for posting those pictures.  The Vancouver F.D. was an early advocate of making the transition to motorized fire apparatus and their newfangled machines kept photographers busy.  The two Seagrave rigs shown in the middle of the picture I'm posting were the first motorized fire apparatus built by that firm and were delivered in 1907.  The aerial truck on the right was manufactured by Webb using a Couple Gear chassis and is a 1912 delivery.  What I don't know is the year, make and model of the Chief's car that is shown in your first photo and the one I have posted.  Do you know what it is?

[Steve Hagy]

3 hours ago, nzcarnerd said:

Whatever the mystery car is it is not that big, maybe 20hp or so, unlike some of the big stuff some fire chiefs used. Note one distinctive feature - the small curve of the front edge of the rear fender where it blends into the running boards. Something not seen on many cars.

 

Thank you for the information.  I thought the car was most likely a low budget model.  Without a rear seat and the platform body I would expect that this car would eventually have a chemical tank mounted on the rear.  I'm going to mess around later and try and get a better scan of the hub cap.

[Steve Hagy]

Attached is a better scan of the hub cap.  The writing on the top begins with a"T" and it appears there is an "A" near the end of the writing.  On the lower portion of the cap the writing begins with an "N".  Hope this gets an identification!

[nzcarnerd]

27 minutes ago, Steve Hagy said:

Attached is a better scan of the hub cap.  The writing on the top begins with a"T" and it appears there is an "A" near the end of the writing.  On the lower portion of the cap the writing begins with an "N".  Hope this gets an identification!

 

Or could it simply be Timken Bearings?

[AHa]

The radiator cap  and badge on the white car resembles a Stoddard Dayton. I'd say 1912.

[nzcarnerd]

I am intrigued that our mystery car has no rear bodywork. maybe it was intended as a tug for a piece of equipment?

[nzcarnerd]

Just now, AHa said:

The radiator cap  and badge on the white car resembles a Stoddard Dayton. I'd say 1912.

 

Looks like a 'bucket fill' cap as Overland used, among a few others no doubt.

[1912Staver]

I have thought Stoddard Dayton as well AHa. Somewhere in my " Book room " turned total jumble during extensive house renovations I have of a copy of " It started with a Ronald " that examines Vancouver's Fire Engines from the early days.

It's been several years since I last looked through it and I can't remember if the Chief's cars are covered.

 

Greg in Canada

[AHa]

Overlands radiator badge was two colors instead of the all white stoddard dayton badge. There was one other make of car that used that style of radiator cap though I believe.

[nzcarnerd]

37 minutes ago, AHa said:

Overlands radiator badge was two colors instead of the all white stoddard dayton badge. There was one other make of car that used that style of radiator cap though I believe.

I wasn't suggesting that the car might be an Overland, just pointing out that the bucket fill cap was an Overland feature 

 

[AHa]

I wasn't offended and am not sure it is S/D either. The OP car's body I think is a detachable, sometimes called a double bucket roadster. It could have a second seat that would attach to the rear deck. As previously suggested the rear fender attachment to the running board is an identifying feature but for the life of me I cannot remember the make that did that.

[nzcarnerd]

2 hours ago, AHa said:

I wasn't offended and am not sure it is S/D either. The OP car's body I think is a detachable, sometimes called a double bucket roadster. It could have a second seat that would attach to the rear deck. As previously suggested the rear fender attachment to the running board is an identifying feature but for the life of me I cannot remember the make that did that.

 

As it happens it was a Dodge feature for many years, but of course that was later than this.

[gossp]

it looks a lot like the 10 Marion in the standard catalog. Front fenders and 12 spoke wheels don’t really work. 
 

marmon also used that fender design. Looks like we are looking for a car buying fenders out of Indiana at least. 

Edited March 31, 2020 by gossp (see edit history)

[gossp]

I will add Oakland and overland to my list of cars that toss out some similarities. If Oakland fits in that era Cartercar would also need looked at, but I think we would see the friction drive hanging below if that were the case. 

[Ariejan NL]

The car is a 1909 Buick touring car, but the rear seat has been taken off.

[ArticiferTom]

You may be miss reading the lower N as the beginning of a word . If the cap was rolled other way .  It is last letter of the word . It could be second or first word .

[Ariejan NL]

The word at the bottom of the wheel hub reads 'MICHIGAN'. If you rotate it 180 degrees you can read 'BUICK'. The k is a bit fuzzy, but the first four letters are quite clear.