mercer09

The Sale of Car Titles is Prohibited

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was just told I would be banned for listing and selling of car titles.............

 

never knew this was a problem till today, so I am saying good bye. Was nice interacting with all of you the last few years, but I have no interest in censorship in this regard.

 

sad the group keeps getting smaller, but I guess it is the way it is.

 

a few of you should be quite happy!

 

take care.

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So is speeding, smoking marijuana (in some states), fibbing on taxes, cross walking and spitting in public. I guess we’re all guilty of something!

 Mercer, sorry to see you go!!!

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No, I support people that have a car in a titled state being able to actually “own” their car. 
 I’m sure you’ve bought parts for your car that actually weren’t on your car when it was originally purchased. Is that fraud? Are you part of a conspiracy? 
 Sometimes one needs to sit back, take a deep breath and let others live!

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Yachtflame,

I can no more condone or look the other way on the sale of titles than i can can stolen parts. Before you say "let others live" you need to consider that!

 

Merced09,

Yes. Title sales are illegal.

You were informed (privately) that if you continued you'd be banned.

Your stab at the forum usage seems petty, and also incorrect.

If you chose to leave the forum so be it. 

Otherwise, simply follow the forum rules, including refraining from attempting to sell car titles or any other illegal activity.

 

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Please don't leave us, Ronn. I didn't know anything about titles, so wasn't aware of any problem. I like your outlook on things, and I am very sure I would not be the only one to miss you. Of course since there are forum rules, that is the way it has to be. I don't see anyone asking you to leave, and you should stick around. You don't have to feel bad, or whatever, just stay with us and follow the forum rules. OK ?                       Just another one of your forum friends,     -    Cadillac Carl 

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Selling car titles on other Forums is also cause for getting Banned. Guess I'm lucky living in Connecticut there is no title BS. 

 

Bob 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Haisley said:

Can you sell a car without the title?

Well, without a (Government issued and approved) title how does one prove its theirs to sell and/or doesn’t have liens held against it.

Would you buy one without it ?
Can anyone one sell real estate without a clear deed or title ?

Edited by TTR (see edit history)
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Used to be,(maybe still is), cars could be sold and registered in Washington without title. Title would be issued after 3 years. I have done it. Works for a keeper, and sure helps if you know/trust the seller.    -   Carl 

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Posted (edited)

This is true but, you have to buy tags for it for those 3 years (plus a significant fee), and if someone shows up with a title, it's theirs. I wouldn't want to sink much money into it until I had clear title. Also, I don't think I would want to be caught hauling a car on a trailer in Washington that I couldn't prove I owned. You may recall that in the old days (and maybe still) you couldn't even GET RID of one without a title. Washington probably has the highest number of sawzalls per capita in the nation. Nuff said.

Edited by Bloo (see edit history)

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Posted (edited)

Mercer, I also would prefer you not go.

That said, in some states, it is illegal to sell an unattached old title as anything but a historic piece of paper. The problem here, is that there is no uniformity from state to state. In some ways that IS a wonderful thing. So many states have so many really BAD laws, especially concerning automobile titles, can you imagine what it would be like for all of us if all the worst laws were enacted for all states? Unfortunately, at least up to a few years ago, and I hear rumors still, a few states actually encourage residents to use unattached titles as the primary means of resurrecting a title for a car that has none. 

This is one area where Califunny (as much as I generally do not like the state!) is alright to deal with. A title CAN be LEGALLY "regenerated" by anyone that knows the basics of how. I am NOT an expert on all the various laws from state to state (hire a bunch of expensive attorneys if you want to know that much). But I have been connected to many hobbyists from coast to coast for most of fifty years. I listen. I hear horror stories in all extremes dealing with rules in one state not being compatible in other states. Many states had little or no title at all until only a few decades ago. Many states still don't require them for cars built before some given year.

What? Just because state "A" never issued a title or registration, or kept no records for something lost fifty years ago, the car should simply be scrapped? It cannot be owned or sold to an honest person two states over?

In some ways, I wish this problem could be corrected. Other ways, I sincerely fear what the universal rules could become. Personal property rights are among the most important of our Constitutional RIGHTS! Regardless of what governmental body is infringing on them.

 

I also KNOW that the AACA must tread lightly here. Peter G MUST do here what must be done for the betterment of the club coast to coast.

However, Mercer, I do like reading your posts and comments.

Edited by wayne sheldon (see edit history)
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Stick around mercer09, I enjoy reading your posts. :)

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While I agree with prohibiting the sale of titles on these forums I believe you will find that selling titles is NOT illegal. What IS illegal is using a title for fraudulent purposes, a subtle but distinct difference. Same with VIN tags. It is not illegal to remove a VIN tag. It only becomes illegal if that tag is used for fraudulent purposes.

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Sorry to lose you here Ronn.  Hope you reconsider forum participation, your insight will be missed.

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It would be a lot more fun staying and doing work-arounds .............Bob

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I hate to see you go too, your knowledge and comments are appreciated. 
 

However, with the laws being different In almost every state and country this forum is being accessed in, it actually could happen that the club and forum wind up in the middle of Litigation regarding fraudulent claims of car ownership whereas the AACA could be held accountable if not totally disbanded should it continue to allow the activity to persist.

 

Nothing says if you have an old title without a car that the car doesn’t actually exist in a non-title state. Or even more likely is titled in a state under a warranty title which was forced through by many states so they could suck another $50 every time a car sold... believe me, I had quite the hassle getting one in Massachusetts when they revoked the 15 year rule!

 

 

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I agree that it would be a shame to leave over this. I have periodically taken breaks when the forum became a little too overwhelming for me, and I was always welcomed back with open arms by the good people here. This is a community and regardless of our differences, we seem to embrace each other here as fellow old car fans. That's rather rare, both in the real world and online. Yes, sometimes it may feel like you've got a target painted on your forehead, but the 10% rough areas are worth the 90% gold.

 

I would not, however, refer to this as censorship--it isn't the government telling you what you can say. The AACA gets to set their own rules for their forum--they're paying the bills. Censorship does not apply to private enterprise. There's a very big gray area around title sales and it can indeed lead to unethical and potentially illegal behavior. It's probably not a crime to sell them, but I would wager that many people buying them are not buying them for garage art. It's a legally ambiguous area that I'm sure the club doesn't want to be even tangentially involved in given the significant consequences. I was recently given a similar ultimatum here that was more or less phrased like the old time gangsters shaking people down by saying, "Gee, mister, wouldn't it be a shame if your shop burned down?" While it is almost always my first instinct to push back, it's important to remember this is the AACA's field and their equipment, so we gotta play by their rules. I accept that as a fair trade-off, even if I didn't particularly care for the way that message was delivered.

 

Enforcement of rules is why this place is good. Sometimes you don't agree with the rules, but that's how the world works. Sometimes you don't like the messenger, but not everyone is compatible with everyone else. You do the best you can and take the good where you can find it. As I said, the good here vastly outweighs the hassles, and your contributions have value.


Take a break, cool off, and come back. You will be welcomed.

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I’m just an observer on this one being from Uk and knowing  little about  US car title deeds , although I have four copies  , two for  cars since sold abroad and which now have new documents in their new countries. Therefore  , I wonder if similar transactions have generated similar unattached titles circulating the US for cars long since gone to American car lovers like me throughout the world and subsequently have passed car on again with their new title , not their old US original.

cheers

pilgrim

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It all started several year's ago when a well known car builder on the west coast was busted for using titles that he purchased to register the custom cars he was building. After that episode you couldn't find a title for sale. After a few years they started to reappear at some swap meets with a disclaimer that "titles were only to be purchased as a collectors item and not to register a vehicle". There are people that collect titles and don't use them for illegally registering a car. That being said, it's not illegal to sell a title. It is illegal to use the numbers on a purchased title to stamp those numbers into a chassis of a car and to sell or register the car. I can understand why the A.A.C.A does not someone using their site to promote something that could be used illegally.  I certainly wouldn't quit this site over this Mercer. Think about this, suppose someone did steal a car and re-stamp the chassis and register the car illegally. He could implicate you in the crime. Simply not worth it.

 

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If you ever tried to convince an agent at PennDot that all you had for your 1906 Buick was a bill of sale because the title had long ago dissappeared

you might look at this subject differently. Not usually a problem for most of the cars I see on owners lists.  Unfortunately another service to the hobby is gone.

 

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Posted (edited)

There are a few things that are not ideal with life in Canada. But a big bonus from what little I know about old cars and titles is that I am very glad that we do not use them here in Canada.  It really puts the owner of very old cars in a spot when you must have a title but in many cases they didn't even exist back beyond a certain point in time or in certain States, or with a certain age of car, .

 And I thought Kafka understood about all there was to know about dealing with bureaucracy. He could have written a few further volumes just about vintage cars and the DMV.

 

Greg in Canada

Edited by 1912Staver (see edit history)
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