1929 Studebaker President 8 Roadster

[29StudiePrez]

3 minutes ago, 8E45E said:

I posted photos of a RHD 1939 Commander here-------->    https://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/forum/your-studebaker-forum/general-studebaker-specific-discussion/47733-39-40s-lets-see-em/page3

 

Craig

 

Not only are photos of any Australian or other RHD cars hard to find, pictures detailing the RHD setups are very scare. Unless there are some shop manuals out there for RHD cars that show any details on their driving setups?

This is where networking with other Australian Studebaker owners will be invaluable.

 

https://studebakercarclub.net/studebaker-in-australia/

[mike6024]

[8E45E]

Not so much the Shop Manuals, but many of the Chassis Parts catalogs often provide excellent illustrations of RHD componentry.  And the Body Catalogs will provide part numbers for any interior component that is unique to RHD vehicles.

 

Keep in mind, there are OTHER interesting items besides where the steering wheel is that are unique to certain countries.  For example, Australia specified AMBER rear turn signal lenses, which will make the rear wiring harness special for that particular market, just to name one difference.  (Check out the Australian-assembled '63 Lark in Post #26 here----->  https://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/forum/your-studebaker-forum/general-studebaker-specific-discussion/1823041-old-pictures-of-you-and-your-car-where-did-all-that-hair-go/page2 )

 

Craig

Edited March 27, 2020 by 8E45E (see edit history)

[Touts]

On 3/27/2020 at 7:37 AM, 29StudiePrez said:

Also the Touring cars had a hole on the top sill of the door that a post for the removable side windows sat down in, which the Roadster door did not have. So another way Frank can know if his front doors and cowl section is from a Tourer is when he strips his paint and see if its solid metal under there or if there is a hole that has been filled in.

 

There’s been so much information provided to date. I stayed up last night re reading the incredible and detailed comments provided.

 

StudiePrez contributed his thoughts on the history of this vehicle using his vast Studebaker knowledge and published his findings. 

 

He made specific references to the  Tourer Doors vs Roadster Doors theory.

 

So this morning I went out to investigate and was blown away.

 

Patched up Holes everywhere !!

“Two Holes” front and rear per door truly amazing in my opinion.

 

It could be a “Man” thing, however these Holes are an important piece of information and I guess consolidates  StudiePrez’s theory about the history of the vehicle.

 

I guess we can now conclude that The Roadster has Tourer Doors.

 

 

And there’s more 👇

 

 

I found a piece of paper that was handed to me when I bought the car and in shock, here in Australia 🇦🇺 

 

I’m including it as perhaps some valuable information may come of it. 

 

Summary 

Item : 

1929 Chassis No 10366 Studebaker President Roadster

 

Date:

14/11/97 

 

Recipient :

Mr AJ Lidden

 

Owner :

JW Shears

 

 

I’m not sure,  however I don’t believe that it was the receipt from the original USA owner from the BJ auction in the USA 🇺🇸 

 

Have a good one, frank 

 

PS, I’m going out to play with a piece of 4x2 and the Soft Top Bows as instructed by StudiePrez, I’ll keep you posted.

 

 

 

[Ozstatman]

Have heard Lidden bought many cars through "time payment". This receipt then appears to show Lidden wasn't the purchaser at the BJ Auction in early '97 as the receipt is dated Nov '97. Looks like Shears could have been the purchaser from BJ,  brought it to Australia, then on sold it.

[edinmass]

The holes that are filled in on the doors are for Dawson plugs, for the side curtains. With the touring car windshield and cowl, and the larger belt line used exclusively on the touring car, it was a given the doors were off the touring car. From the looks of the wood and latches they have had a hard life. 

[1937hd45]

 

From what I can see the Touring and Roadster doors have a unique to them selves belt molding design, two beads on the Roadster and no beads on the Touring. Bob 

Edited March 28, 2020 by 1937hd45 (see edit history)

[decostude]

Hi Touts,

I have just joined after following your quest for knowledge about your Studebaker President Eight. I have followed the blog and I am stunned at the amount of knowledge surrounding President Eight Roadsters. I agree with the contributors regarding the possible history of your car. Hence why I joined up today.   I am from New Zealand and I believe that I might own one of the rare five chassis that Studebaker exported in 1930. As you will see, the bodywork is very different from the originals. It has a New Zealand colonial-built body (done in 1930) where the rear bodywork is wider than the original and there is no "bump" at the bottom of the rumble seat. Also, the guards (fenders) are not so exposed as in the original President Eight roadster. This car survived the devastating 1931 Napier earthquake. I have all the original shipping documents including landed price and final building costs. I have personally known this car for 70 years and while it is not in the original Studebaker colours of the time, this colour scheme was chosen  by the previous owner 75 years ago.  I purchased the car 60 years ago and decided to retain the exact colour scheme. I have driven it in excess of  350000 miles including taking it to Australia in 1970 for a big rally. Like your car, mine has also caused a lot of comment over the years. My philosophy is if you like it, then enjoy it and drive it like you love it. Good luck on your rebuild and if I can be of any assistance, please give me a call.

David Lane <decostude@gmail.com>

 

 

[Ozstatman]

14 minutes ago, decostude said:

 My philosophy is if you like it, then enjoy it and drive it like you love it.

 

 

David,

Great looking car and perfect philosophy.

Question, what is that on the middle of the headlight bar? Looks like an animal of some kind.

[Touts]

Yes that’s all true. I don’t know 😷

 

From my perspective based on my original post in which I just queried the RHD/LHD setup on the vehicle. The subsequent response has floored me.

 

During this process I have had a good opportunity to lightly dismantle the vehicle for the Studebaker Experts to forensically analyse the subject vehicle with astounding results.

 

I mean,  to come up with the fact that it was, a seven seat State Tourer and now it’s a 2 Seat... ish Roadster  and all the bits in between is out there from where I’m sitting, sorry StudiePrez.

 

During my light dismantling,  I came up with the same conclusion that the car has had a hard life and in desperate need of TLC. 

If only cars could talk.

I guess they do for those who can communicate 🤔

 

Anyway from another perspective, The car is in remarkably good condition for E90yr age as far as I can see. There is virtually no rust , the Chassis is in excellent condition and of course it’s metamorphosis.

 

I don’t think it is something that is beyond human capabilities to restore especially knowing what Joe has accomplished.

 

My only significant challenge is twofold.

 

1. To understand what I have and what needs to be rightfully done.

 

2. To source all the correct parts needed to bring this car back to where it deserves to be.

 

I’m sure you all understand perfectly.

frank

 

Photo 1.

Rooftop View to show “New” Roadster lines

 

Photo 2.

Soft Top Bows

Photo 3. More Frame Bows

 

Photo 4. Soft Top requiring significant imagination.

 

[mike6024]

What I find rather shocking is that this was originally a RHD vehicle, and the pedal arrangement with the accelerator in between the brake and clutch is the way it would have been done originally. To me it looks quite dangerous.

 

Maybe a better configuration is possible. Drink-driving device.

[Ozstatman]

Just now, mike6024 said:

 Drink-driving device.

Yeah, you'd have to be drinking to even think to drive it like that! 

 

Frank, 

Presume you've tried the seating/peddle arrangement before you started disassembly? What did it that feel/fit like with that set-up?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

!~!

 

[decostude]

1 hour ago, Ozstatman said:

David,

Great looking car and perfect philosophy.

Question, what is that on the middle of the headlight bar? Looks like an animal of some kind.

It's an American Bald Headed Eagle which has a "Hall Mark" number stamped underneath the round ball. I have checked the "DR" catalogues and while they show eagles as accessories, they are not numbered. Many years ago I spoke to the original importer and owner (who has since passed on) and he confirmed that it was there but he couldn't remember exactly how it got there. 

 

[Ozstatman]

2 minutes ago, decostude said:

It's an American Bald Headed Eagle which has a "Hall Mark" number stamped underneath the round ball. I have checked the "DR" catalogues and while they show eagles as accessories, they are not numbered. Many years ago I spoke to the original importer and owner (who has since passed on) and he confirmed that it was there but he couldn't remember exactly how it got there. 

 

[decostude]

19 hours ago, 29StudiePrez said:

In regard to your top bows as seen in your picture. These are touring bows not Roadster bows. Either one are extremely hard to find it you dont have them. You are also missing a threaded bolt that sticks out from the body that a large chrome button screws onto that is for the top bow to attach to. See attaches pic. The Roadster bows would not have that extra long section between the front bow which rests on top of the front windshield to the second bow which comes up from the button. Take a 2x4 the width of the bottom of the center top bow and put two bolt in the ends so you can attach the end of the center bow to it so it will hold it in place. Refer to the pics I'm posting to get an idea of how they sit and lay that 2x4 with the ends of the bow that are now bolted to it and lay it across the body just behind the door where that button should be. As you unfold those bows toward the front windshield that folding part in the middle of that long section is going to snap up in place and make that whole length straight. Now, if the center bow is along the width of the body where the burron should be, if its Roadster bows the front will rest on top of the windshield. If on your car the front of the folding top is way past it then they are too long and go to the tourer body. So remember the 1st bow angles back, the second bow angles foward and the end bow rests on the top of the windshield. And you having the bottom ends of the second bow attached to the ends of a 2x4 laying across the body behind the door opening at the button location will help hold it in place for this experiment, you may want to take a bungy cord or string to put on the 1st bow that is angling towards the back bumper to hold it in place to keep it from moving forward. Its the top material sewn onto this back bow and that snaps along the back wood that keeps the rear bow from moving any further than what its supposed to. Once you have the bows unfolded and in place, take a side shot of where it all lands so we can see if they fold out correctly for a Roadster or last the windshield for a tourer. You may need a second hand to help.

Your proportions to the height of the top bow as well as the placement of the rear bow is perfect. I always remembered the rule in making bows for tops. About 1922 the back bow was starting to move forwards. By 1930 it was approximately 1 inch forward of a vertical line. By 1935 the bow had moved forward by in some cases several inches. The rag top was following the fashion of the roof lines of coupes and by 1940 they had stopped there migration forward.  So important to get this right.

[Touts]

11 hours ago, mike6024 said:

What I find rather shocking is that this was originally a RHD vehicle, and the pedal arrangement with the accelerator in between the brake and clutch is the way it would have been done originally. To me it looks quite dangerous.

 

Maybe a better configuration is possible. Drink-driving device.

 

Thanks Mike, I guess if I had a few drinks and drove off then I’d put the Brake on, and that can’t be bad.

 

I must confess that when I watched StudiePrez ‘s YouTube presentation I became a little concerned particularly in relation to my accelerator linkages.

 

I see the issue in relation to the Pedals to be challenging because I don’t think it’s complete.

 

I now believe that I missed an opportunity by not buying a period donor RHD wreck that had linkages that I could use.

 

The auction that I bought the car from had many wrecks that went cheap as Ozstatman previously mentioned.

 

Actually I’m watching another auction where there is an old original RHD Chevrolet. It would be interesting to see if I could use it’s linkages etc off a different manufacturer.

Unfortunately I’m unable to fly to Victoria to Inspect it due to the current C-19  health restrictions.

 

Welcome to the Forum Post DecoStude👌🏻 Thank you for your valued comments. That is a gorgeous looking President you have there and your enjoying it, that’s great.

I really enjoyed putting the Soft Top Bows on today. I was surprised how good it could look considering it too must have been modified I suspect.

 

Let me see if I’ve got this right, 

please feel free to correct.

 

> Modified 1928 RHD Studebaker President 8 State Tourer-Roadster FA-T2

131” Chassis

Duel Side Mount Wire Wheels 

 

I have a hypothetical question to put to the panel of experts that has been bugging me.

If Studebaker in the early years was a premium car maker that had developed the FA-T1 and built at least one the FA-T2 Tourer,  and that Tourer was subsequently damaged early in it’s life and then converted into a Roadster.

 

Q: Would Studebaker Indiana/ Canada have participated in anyway in the reconstruction, design or modification of the now damaged FA-T2 Tourer to a Roadster ? 

 

It it just seem to me, not ever seeing a Tourer in real life,  that the lines of My Roadster is too good to be done without the assistance of Studebaker.

The actual construction quality remains questionable I agree. 

I still can’t comprehend what happened to this car to end up this configuration . I guess we may never Know.

 

I’ve now booked the car in at Joes for it’s Body off restoration in 3 weeks. Should be interesting, I’m looking forward to it. I don’t want this to be a drawn out restoration.

I’ll keep you posted.

Frank.

 

 

[Touts]

11 hours ago, mike6024 said:

What I find rather shocking is that this was originally a RHD vehicle, and the pedal arrangement with the accelerator in between the brake and clutch is the way it would have been done originally. To me it looks quite dangerous.

 

Maybe a better configuration is possible. Drink-driving device.

 

Thanks Mike, I guess if I had a few drinks and drove off then I’d put the Brake on, and that can’t be bad.

 

I must confess that when I watched StudiePrez ‘s YouTube presentation I became a little concerned particularly in relation to my accelerator linkages.

 

I see the issue in relation to the Pedals to be challenging because I don’t think it’s complete.

 

I now believe that I missed an opportunity by not buying a period donor RHD wreck that had linkages that I could use.

 

The auction that I bought the car from had many wrecks that went cheap as Ozstatman previously mentioned.

 

Actually I’m watching another auction where there is an old original RHD Chevrolet. It would be interesting to see if I could use it’s linkages etc off a different manufacturer.

Unfortunately I’m unable to fly to Victoria to Inspect it due to the current C-19  health restrictions.

 

Welcome to the Forum Post DecoStude👌🏻 Thank you for your valued comments. That is a gorgeous looking President you have there and your enjoying it, that’s great.

I really enjoyed putting the Soft Top Bows on today. I was surprised how good it could look considering it too must have been modified I suspect.

 

Let me see if I’ve got this right, 

please feel free to correct.

 

> Modified 1928 RHD Studebaker President 8 State Tourer-Roadster FA-T2

131” Chassis

Duel Side Mount Wire Wheels 

 

I have a hypothetical question to put to the panel of experts that has been bugging me.

If Studebaker in the early years was a premium car maker that had developed the FA-T1 and built at least one the FA-T2 Tourer,  and that Tourer was subsequently damaged early in it’s life and then converted into a Roadster.

 

Q: Would Studebaker Indiana/ Canada have participated in anyway in the reconstruction, design or modification of the now damaged FA-T2 Tourer to a Roadster ? 

 

It it just seem to me, not ever seeing a Tourer in real life,  that the lines of My Roadster is too good to be done without the assistance of Studebaker.

The actual construction quality remains questionable I agree. 

I still can’t comprehend what happened to this car to end up this configuration . I guess we may never Know.

 

I’ve now booked the car in at Joes for it’s Body off restoration in 3 weeks. Should be interesting, I’m looking forward to it. I don’t want this to be a drawn out restoration.

I’ll keep you posted.

Frank.

 

 

[29StudiePrez]

Frank,

Since decostude is the closest to you then anyone else who has an original built for Australia roadster his car is a great resource to mirror your car off of (if keeping the Roadster body is the goal). Also maybe he can assist right now (since we're all on "Shelter in Place" orders due to this Pandemic) and post some good pictures of his floor board area and linkage assembly on the bell housing showing his brake/clutch/accelerator set up as well as his starter and carburetor controls and linkage. You are going to have to see all of this because I'm not sure all your linkage and controls from your steering wheel and the bottom at the end of your steering box has the linkage set up correctly or original for the spark advance, throttle control and headlights are connected or set up right?

If he has time, maybe he can post some pics.

 

Also maybe he can post the measurements or a drawing of his Golf Club door so you know what is the original size and dimensions. (I can do likewise to compare even though mine is a Cabriolet)

 

Does anyone know if Peter Limon down there who has a 1928 President FA-T1 Tourer is still around or where his car is at? This also would be a good reference closer to you to maybe look at in person or get close up photos.

 

And one last thing, we need to find you correct Studebaker Running board step plates since yours are incorrect.

[29StudiePrez]

Frank, 

On the Subject of when and who eventually converted the Tourer to a Roadster body and if Studebaker may have had a hand in it?. This would be my best guess;

If the Tourer had been wrecked back when Studebaker was around in the first few decades after being new then I believe something as simple as putting on the correct rumble seat step plates, correct rumble seat hinges, Golf Club door, rumble seat lid and construction of gutters, these details and parts when they were more apt to be available would have been done. 

Studebaker or even a reputable custom body builder in that era or at least the first 20yrs of its life would have been more "Attention to detail" oriented and with correct parts.

So if not them then who?

I would theorize (just my guess) that one possibility is this ... since the Tourer is missing the original outside door handles, hubcaps, cowl lights, radiator, Radiator cap and emblem, President headlights, windshield wipers, windshield handle for the bottom of the windshield, all three steering wheel control levers (Spark, light and throttle), correct radiator emblem, President dash emblem as well as "Body Built by Studebaker" metal dash tag etc. etc. Just to name what I can see, many of these minor items, even as simple as the Metal President dash tag and the correct radiator emblem removed are indicative to me that some damage happened to the rear body of the Tourer and it may have sat in either a salvage yard or someone elses yard for a while, or maybe inside somewhere, a barn or shed etc. and got canabalized over the years as it sat.

 

I would guess that maybe sometime in the 60's when people out there who had some experience and knowledge with working on the older stuff was more common place with wood bodies and metal work (and the old car hobby was becoming more popular and cars in the 30's were more affordable like today with someone being able to get into a 1990s car vs a 1930s) someone came across the car and decided to try and make something of it. They or someone they knew had enough talent to do a decent job of making a rear body section, and they added what parts they found that served its purpose at the time to get it on the road and running to have fun with, without being real concerned with the exact details. They made it work, they found a radiator that fit from an earlier 1st model FA, the radiator and emblem, headlights, cowl lights, found some other door handles, step plates etc. Whatever it took to make it work and "look" decent and presentable to serve the purpose. They didn't take the time to find all the correct items that had been taken or were correct for the 1928 FA Model.

 

This was a project taken on by an individual not Studebaker or a shop who came across what was left of probably a wrecked tourer that got picked over. No other explanation would be logical, little items, even as simple as the metal dash tags like "President" wouldnt be missing unless it had been sitting for a while and gotten picked apart.

 

If the Tourer would have had the back end damaged and then the owner either through personal funds or insurance had Studebaker or a body shop involved in rebuilding the back half and modiying the top bows to fit the body all those other items listed above as missing would have remained on the car as it passed from owner to owner through the years. 

 

Its my opinion that this car, that was damaged at some point and time, sat for a while, and someone came along in the 50-s, 60s or 70s and tried to resurrect what was left and made it into what it is now and wasnt that concerned with all the little details, which in itself may indicate this was done more to make it a functional and "presentable" or fun car, than a collector car because if it had been done by a collector then more attention to correct details might have been done, and original parts found and replaced.

Just my guess.

Edited March 28, 2020 by 29StudiePrez (see edit history)

[edinmass]

14 hours ago, mike6024 said:

What I find rather shocking is that this was originally a RHD vehicle, and the pedal arrangement with the accelerator in between the brake and clutch is the way it would have been done originally. To me it looks quite dangerous.

 

Maybe a better configuration is possible. Drink-driving device.

 

 

The gas pedal in the center on a RHD car was the normal or stock position for it from 1904 to 1915, so I is nothing out of the ordinary.

[29StudiePrez]

18 hours ago, Ozstatman said:

Have heard Lidden bought many cars through "time payment". This receipt then appears to show Lidden wasn't the purchaser at the BJ Auction in early '97 as the receipt is dated Nov '97. Looks like Shears could have been the purchaser from BJ,  brought it to Australia, then on sold it.

So if Shear is the one who Bought the car in January of '97 at BJ Scottsdale for $26k then shipped it to Australia and then in Nov.'97 sold it to Lidden for $35k,  not a bad turn over and that was a decent amount of money in '97 for a Studebaker. If either of these gentleman are alive still maybe one had knowledge of where the car came from?

I wonder if "JW Shear" is related to Doug Shear of Australia who created Uncle Tobys and Berri fruit juice businesses in the 1990s? Doug Shear would be 73 now. Is Lidden the one who's collection was being sold off in the estate sale Frank bought the car from?

[29StudiePrez]

18 minutes ago, edinmass said:

 

 

The gas pedal in the center on a RHD car was the normal or stock position for it from 1904 to 1915, so I is nothing out of the ordinary.

Being someone from America who is not accustomed to RHD cars the whole concept is alien. But you know this whole problem is because of the accelerator placement. If LHD cars have the accelerator pedal on the Right, then RHD cars should have the accelerator pedal to the left and drivers should learn to accelerate with their left foot ....lol

But seriously, i wonder why the clutch and brake pedal shafts couldn't have been designed and bent or angled more towards the left to make enough room on the right for an accelerator pedal? What are modern RHD cars like?

Edited March 28, 2020 by 29StudiePrez (see edit history)

[58L-Y8]

For what its worth, Forney's Transportation Museum in Denver, Colorado used to display a '37-'39 Lincoln K which had the rear portions of a late '20's Studebaker roadster body from the cowl rearward grafted onto the Lincoln K cowl.  It was easy to identify by the unique shaping Studebaker employed on the body sides as they taper over and down around the rear fenders. You might contact them for photos of the rear body on that Lincoln.

[Buffalowed Bill]

IMO the way in which you proceed with a restoration will depend on the history of the car. as well as the availability of parts and what you want the car to be. The simplest, and maybe most economical, way to proceed is to work with what you have. We know that the car has been in this configuration for decades. The BJ auction photos seem to show a well worn car, in it's present configuration. We agree that the in it's roadster configuration the car has an appealing look, but we also know that it wasn't always a roadster. Returning the car to the configuration of either  with the 121" WB or 125" WB is going to be a real choir. If you are determined to return it to what it might have been, it seems to me, that a touring car (open touring car) would seem to make some sense. Either way altering it's present configuration is bound to be a monumental task.

 

A thought just occurred to me. Does anybody know how close the kinship is between the open Studebaker open touring car body, and that of the 133" WB Pierce Arrow touring car? There are more PA's that have survived then there are Presidents. Rex if you're lurking out there why don't you jump into the fray?

 

Bill

 

 

[Ozstatman]

3 hours ago, 29StudiePrez said:

Is Lidden the one who's collection was being sold off in the estate sale Frank bought the car from?

 Yes, Lidden passed away April 2016.

[Touts]

Thank you again StudiePrez ,  your depth of Studebaker knowledge is amazing and an asset to the Studebaker community.

Your a Legend.

 

As it would be my intention to do my best I can in restoring this car to its correct specifications, it’s obvious that I’m going to experience the same problems that past persons did when it was a Tourer being modified to a Roadster.

With what unique and limited parts that would be available,  I guess it would be a monumental challenge, probably a nearly impossible goal to achieve..... “Giving it a Go” is what Americans, Aussies & Kiwis are famous for.

The vehicle is in need of serious attention if it is going to survive another E90yrs. I’m going to give it a Shot.

I can’t think of anything better to do in my spare time .

 

I guess that Joe has his work cut out for him 🤫

 

I concur that DecoStude could be an invaluable contributor as he is a justifiably proud owner of a very special vehicle. 

He is also in the same Hemisphere and possible Headsphere as me 🥴

 

I have tried to make contact with Peter Limon with no success.

I do not have a Facebook account and asked Michael, my Car Guy Son in Law to try and contact him. 

 

Question to DecoStude

Q: RU the only owner of a Studebaker Roadster in the “Local”

area ?

I have scanned the Local Studebaker Clubs photo gallery and haven seen any.

 

Also if anyone has time could you please post some “detailed” information on the President Roadster’s Rumble Seat Flip-Up Door as I want one ☝️ 

Frank

 

Photo 1. One of only Two known FA - T1 in the World ... Impressive.

 

 

Photo 2. Trying to locate the FA-T1 

 

 

Photo 3. The last known owner of the FA -T1 .... Australia 

 

 

[Touts]

1 hour ago, Buffalowed Bill said:

IMO the way in which you proceed with a restoration will depend on the history of the car. as well as the availability of parts and what you want the car to be. The simplest, and maybe most economical, way to proceed is to work with what you have. We know that the car has been in this configuration for decades. The BJ auction photos seem to show a well worn car, in it's present configuration. We agree that the in it's roadster configuration the car has an appealing look, but we also know that it wasn't always a roadster. Returning the car to the configuration of either  with the 121" WB or 125" WB is going to be a real choir. If you are determined to return it to what it might have been, it seems to me, that a touring car (open touring car) would seem to make some sense. Either way altering it's present configuration is bound to be a monumental task.

 

A thought just occurred to me. Does anybody know how close the kinship is between the open Studebaker open touring car body, and that of the 133" WB Pierce Arrow touring car? There are more PA's that have survived then there are Presidents. Rex if you're lurking out there why don't you jump into the fray?

 

Bill

 

 

 

Thank you Bill, I’ve followed your contributions with great respect.

 

As I am an amateur I’m dependent on the contributors to a large degree.

 

I believe it would be beyond my capabilities to return it to its initial Tourer configuration.

 

It is for this reason I’ve decided to “Draw a Line in the Sand”  and work with what I have . 

 

It it is what it is .

 

The other reason is that it that looks so cool being a really Big Roadster. In it’s restored state it would be a unique head turner even though I consider myself a private person.

 

I like what StudiePrez said earlier,

”That if it was restored to correct RHD Studebaker Roadster specifications, it would make some experts scratching their heads”

So cool, I want that photo !

 

Photo 1. OMG - Posted my First Forum Post and look what’s happened to my screen time 😷

 

[Ozstatman]

Frank,

 

Tried to call the number shown in the 2001 Ad for the Sale of the 28 FA President Touring Car but couldn't connect.

 

Also tried sending an email to the address shown in the ad, but it bounced back!

Edited March 28, 2020 by Ozstatman (see edit history)

[Touts]

Thanks Mal,

 

I’m hoping that due to the current health warning that people would be using social media.

 

I feel that this Studebaker Forum has obviously brought out the Big Boys in the Studebaker world.

 

 I feel that with some luck the message may get around that specific information is urgently required to document some Studebaker history.

 

In relation to your Posts you have referred to a Mr Lidden RIP, who you mentioned was the gentleman who’s collection was auctioned and where I obtained the car from 

I am a little confused.

 

I have attached a link from the ABC Australia national TV broadcaster that may be of interest related to this matter.

 

My question is :

 

Q: Is Mr Liddon RIP? And Mr Jon Blaikie RIP, one of the same persons or are there two major collectors with farms ?

 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-08-13/collector-jon-blaikie-shows-off-his-cars-and-peacocks/8799796 

 

If that is correct then could you shed some light on Mr Jon Blakie RIP  ? 

 

Frank 

 

Photo : Screen Shot of ABC article

 

[Ozstatman]

Frank,

 

Lidden passed away April 2016.

 

Looking at the ABC story, Blaikie is in Adelaide SA while Lidden was centered in the Southern Highlands area of NSW.

 

Lidden had been collecting for about 50 years, ever since he was a university student, and had  something like 700+ cars in his collection and a similar number of motorcycles. The vehicles auctioned at Robertson were the low end of the collection. Lidden had a number of properties around the Southern Highlands where he stored the cars including the Robertson farm. The best part of the collection was located at Mittagong where, I understand, about 350 of the cars and most of the motorcycles remain.

Edited March 29, 2020 by Ozstatman (see edit history)

[edinmass]

3 hours ago, Buffalowed Bill said:

IMO the way in which you proceed with a restoration will depend on the history of the car. as well as the availability of parts and what you want the car to be. The simplest, and maybe most economical, way to proceed is to work with what you have. We know that the car has been in this configuration for decades. The BJ auction photos seem to show a well worn car, in it's present configuration. We agree that the in it's roadster configuration the car has an appealing look, but we also know that it wasn't always a roadster. Returning the car to the configuration of either  with the 121" WB or 125" WB is going to be a real choir. If you are determined to return it to what it might have been, it seems to me, that a touring car (open touring car) would seem to make some sense. Either way altering it's present configuration is bound to be a monumental task.

 

A thought just occurred to me. Does anybody know how close the kinship is between the open Studebaker open touring car body, and that of the 133" WB Pierce Arrow touring car? There are more PA's that have survived then there are Presidents. Rex if you're lurking out there why don't you jump into the fray?

 

Bill

 

 

 

There is no relationship between them, at all.

[Grimy]

7 hours ago, edinmass said:

 

The gas pedal in the center on a RHD car was the normal or stock position for it from 1904 to 1915, so I is nothing out of the ordinary.

On Pierce-Arrows, gas pedal was in the center through 1920, the last of the factory RHD models.  Ed, you should know that!  🙂

 

When you come to Califunny, you can drive my 1918 48 dual valve like you stole it.  Just be sure to bring a documentation of a negative COVID-19 test no older than 12 hrs before you got on the plane....

[Touts]

41 minutes ago, Grimy said:

On Pierce-Arrows, gas pedal was in the center through 1920, the last of the factory RHD models.  Ed, you should know that!  🙂

 

When you come to Califunny, you can drive my 1918 48 dual valve like you stole it.  Just be sure to bring a documentation of a negative COVID-19 test no older than 12 hrs before you got on the plane....

 

Im going to put myself out there. I think having the gas ⛽️ Pedal in the middle is pretty cool.

It’s a great conversation topic amongst the non car people and I think it works with a little situational awareness.

So having said that I think I

would like to keep it the same position after the restoration, * if I’m allowed. 

It may need some additional engineering though.

I’ll still comply with the Drink Driving regulations , Cheers 

Frank

Photo 1: Subject Fuel ⛽️ Pedal

 

 

 

 

Photo 2: Clutch and Brake Mechanism.

 

 

 

Photo 3: Steering Column Showing that it is not centred around the Dashboard Arch . 

 

[Touts]

2 hours ago, Ozstatman said:

Frank,

 

Lidden passed away April 2016.

 

Looking at the ABC story, Blaikie is in Adelaide SA while Lidden was centered in the Southern Highlands area of NSW.

 

Lidden had been collecting for about 50 years, ever since he was a university student, and had  something like 700+ cars in his collection and a similar number of motorcycles. The vehicles auctioned at Robertson were the low end of the collection. Lidden had a number of properties around the Southern Highlands where he stored the cars including the Robertson farm. The best part of the collection was located at Mittagong where, I understand, about 350 of the cars and most of the motorcycles remain.

 

Thank you for clearing that up .

I would love to check out his Shed!! 

Great to know that we are not alone.

frank

[frededwarrds]

Hi Touts, my apologies for butting in regards to this topic. As an avid follower of the forum , never  have I seen such a large response in to a topic! It must be the virus!  My 2 bobs worth (20 cents?) ..it is  well  known here in  Aussieland  that commonwealth countries had up 100% import duties on imported cars. To import them they needed 50% (?) local content?  I’m  sure it still applied well into the 1930s and beyond. Your car was  sold during very hard times . Maybe  the car was damaged and converted. ...Or it may have been imported  with no body past the front doors.. Australia locally made open tourer cars into the mid 30’s long after USA generally went to sedans. As well, Studebaker was a bit up market for the average joe blow.  I’m sure it was the same in the states, if a dealer could move a NOS car by ‘upgrading ‘ it a bit ,and offering a deal, they wouldn’t hesitate for a minute. As for the well built rear section. Holden and TJ Richards were the larger volume body makers. In QLD, HOPE , made bodies for Morris. One other is Martin and King. Many RRs  had these. Mind you their style I personally think was on par with a 5 year old looking at a cardboard box!. Each to there own. There were many others in the  business as well.  Someone must know of these better than I. Not relevant here regarding the relationship between PA and Studebaker cars , with the small numbers made here , body builders would often mix and match body styles with whatever fitted a particular car. We really didn’t have enough volume. And times were hard.  My father who did his apprenticeship with Model Ts would travel to the Melbourne city car auctions for some entertainment with friends. Has this changed? He saw a fairly new RR  and Stanley  sell for 15 pounds each. He cursed he he didn’t have enough to buy the Stanley!. Back to the topic. One last consideration is about year of manufacture. I know with Indian motorcycles of that era , particularly down here, many are transition models. Parts are on them from previous models from new. The RH golf door on a RH car?  The  RH  28 Stutz coupe had a RH golf door. Stutz designed the car and engine to be left or right hand drive. They swapped the linkage over that went through the centre of the cylinder block. Carby and dizzy were on opposite sides.  Easy. I would stick with the body it has unless I had much more local info. Which means this topic won’t be over for a while. Good luck. Nice car. Fred. 

[29StudiePrez]

6 minutes ago, Touts said:

 

Im going to put myself out there. I think having the gas ⛽️ Pedal in the middle is pretty cool.

It’s a great conversation topic amongst the non car people and I think it works with a little situational awareness.

So having said that I think I

would like to keep it the same position after the restoration, * if I’m allowed. 

It may need some additional engineering though.

I’ll still comply with the Drink Driving regulations , Cheers 

Frank

Photo 1: Subject Fuel ⛽️ Pedal

 

 

 

 

Photo 2: Clutch and Brake Mechanism.

 

 

 

Photo 3: Steering Column Showing that it is not centred around the Dashboard Arch . 

 

Looking at these pics of the arrangement, why couldnt the clutch and brake pedal designs have been made to have the arms made or bent in a configuration to shift the pedals more over to the left to make room for a normal gas pedal to the right? Attached just for reference on the subject is the pedals on a RHD 1929 Dictator Cabriolet in New Zeland that was recently posted in a Studebaker FB group and my contribution to the photo to suggest where there would be enough room to put one. I'm glad all you guys down under are use to the anti drinking and driving set up, that would drive me nuts ....lol

[Grimy]

1 hour ago, Touts said:

I'm going to put myself out there. I think having the gas ⛽️ Pedal in the middle is pretty cool.

It’s a great conversation topic amongst the non car people and I think it works with a little situational awareness.

Today, it's an excellent anti-theft measure, too!

[decostude]

Regarding the centre accelerator pedal, my 1930 LHD President chassis arrived in NZ with a centre button pedal confrigeration (different again from the one currently disscussed) and on the instructions of the owner to the builders of the  body, requested that it be modified and shifted out to the right hand side of the foot brake pedal. His great fear was slamming hard down on the foot brake and possibily connecting with the accelerator pedal. 

[29StudiePrez]

22 minutes ago, decostude said:

Regarding the centre accelerator pedal, my 1930 LHD President chassis arrived in NZ with a centre button pedal confrigeration (different again from the one currently disscussed) and on the instructions of the owner to the builders of the  body, requested that it be modified and shifted out to the right hand side of the foot brake pedal. His great fear was slamming hard down on the foot brake and possibily connecting with the accelerator pedal. 

So because it was being shipped to NZ and that was the standard set up with RHD drive cars, they went ahead and set it up that way anyway?. Very Interesting. Your fortunate you had that original paperwork or we'd all be scratching our heads and engaging in that discussion. I dont blame the original customer. Would have done the same thing. 🤣

 

Edited March 29, 2020 by 29StudiePrez (see edit history)

[Touts]

2 hours ago, frededwarrds said:

Hi Touts, my apologies for butting in regards to this topic. As an avid follower of the forum , never  have I seen such a large response in to a topic! It must be the virus!  My 2 bobs worth (20 cents?) ..it is  well  known here in  Aussieland  that commonwealth countries had up 100% import duties on imported cars. To import them they needed 50% (?) local content?  I’m  sure it still applied well into the 1930s and beyond. Your car was  sold during very hard times . Maybe  the car was damaged and converted. ...Or it may have been imported  with no body past the front doors.. Australia locally made open tourer cars into the mid 30’s long after USA generally went to sedans. As well, Studebaker was a bit up market for the average joe blow.  I’m sure it was the same in the states, if a dealer could move a NOS car by ‘upgrading ‘ it a bit ,and offering a deal, they wouldn’t hesitate for a minute. As for the well built rear section. Holden and TJ Richards were the larger volume body makers. In QLD, HOPE , made bodies for Morris. One other is Martin and King. Many RRs  had these. Mind you their style I personally think was on par with a 5 year old looking at a cardboard box!. Each to there own. There were many others in the  business as well.  Someone must know of these better than I. Not relevant here regarding the relationship between PA and Studebaker cars , with the small numbers made here , body builders would often mix and match body styles with whatever fitted a particular car. We really didn’t have enough volume. And times were hard.  My father who did his apprenticeship with Model Ts would travel to the Melbourne city car auctions for some entertainment with friends. Has this changed? He saw a fairly new RR  and Stanley  sell for 15 pounds each. He cursed he he didn’t have enough to buy the Stanley!. Back to the topic. One last consideration is about year of manufacture. I know with Indian motorcycles of that era , particularly down here, many are transition models. Parts are on them from previous models from new. The RH golf door on a RH car?  The  RH  28 Stutz coupe had a RH golf door. Stutz designed the car and engine to be left or right hand drive. They swapped the linkage over that went through the centre of the cylinder block. Carby and dizzy were on opposite sides.  Easy. I would stick with the body it has unless I had much more local info. Which means this topic won’t be over for a while. Good luck. Nice car. Fred. 

 

Thank you Fred for your 13 🇺🇸 USA Cents worth, based on today’s exchange rate.

That is a great contribution.

 

With that in mind, when one considers the now documented financial history of this 1928 131” Studebaker 8 State Tourer / Modified Roadster (that’s a mouthful)

I’m amazed that it is here in Australia 🇦🇺 on my drive awaiting restoration at all.

 

What with Exchange Rates, Taxes , Duties, Freight and Local Road Compliance (including the drink driving optional extra) that you correctly refer to , I’m not surprised Australians have not had the pleasure of that level of motoring.

 

So, I’m going to say it .

 

When I first posted this topic on the Forum in regards to the Studebaker LHD/RHD availability ex factory, It was not long before I realised that I was communicating with a special group of knowledgeable, passionate Studebaker folk.

It was also observed at the auction when I bought the car.

 

So I’m getting there.

 

If you read this thread, there was some initial information transfer .

You will see that StudiePrez hit it on the head.

 

My question is .

 

Q: With the car transferring to multiple known, and now documented owners,

Why didn’t anyone put a tape measure on the Wheelbase of a Studebaker 8 President as StudiePrez noted ?

 

Really it blows my mind . It’s a Big Car . I have a Mercedes W140 S500 L and this Studebaker 2 + 2 Roadster is probably longer .

 

That’s amazing congratulations to the Studebaker Forensic Forum Folk. 

Frank