1929 Studebaker President 8 Roadster

[29StudiePrez]

4 hours ago, 58L-Y8 said:

Going out on a limb here with limb saw in hand,  for what its worth,  I suggest you measure the width of the doors.   I think the forward half of the body from the cowl to just behind the rear door edge is from a '28 President FA State Tourer.  The doors look unusually wide for a factory roadster body.  

 

Is the rear section with the rumble seat opening of all-steel construction without wood framing?  It looks to be from the pictures.

A while back in the discussion I was going to mention that maybe someone combined the front half of a Tourer with the back rumble seat half of a Roadster or a Cabriolet but I thought that possibility was too far out there because it would mean someone would have had to have had both style of cars to cannabalize and destroy to make one. So i kept silent about that idea, but you bringing it up and mentioning maybe the front half used to be a Tourer would explain the wider doors, Roadster doors do appear narrower, the fact that it has the larger instrument dash and the tool door on the LHD drivers side. My 1929 President FE Seven passenger tourer had the same dash and tool door on the drivers side and the Tourer is the only model that had this feature. The roadsters never did. I think the key here is getting the door measurements of an FA tourer and comparing those measurements to the door of a Roadster. Also looking at the width of the body between the doors. I know from being an owner of a 1929 FE President Tourer that the touring cowl is unique and wider than any other cowl on other models. Im pretty sure the cowl and body is narrower on the Roadsters, I know it is on my 1929 President Cabriolet.  And in looking at the door size, and even the door lines of the Tourer vs the Roadster, especially down at the bottom, the corner of Franks door is rounded and I'm still trying to find a comparison picture of anything that compares (I think the FA Tourer was like this but I cant find a good picture to zoom in on vs a Roadster) but I think this may be the key to help solve the puzzle. 

Frank - there was a gentleman in Australia by the name of Peter Limon who had an All white 1928 FA President tourer he used for weddings down there, had a few other car as well. If you can track him down and that President to look at it might be helpful. Also the "pagoda" you keep refering to behind the 1929 Studebaker Indy 500 pace car was the observation tower for the Indy 500.

There is another possibility to all of this, in order for Studebaker to escape high  import taxes of complete cars, it was very common for them to ship just the chassis with front and rear fenders and the front section from the cowl forward, then once in Australia the bodies woukd be custom built there. However this theory would mean someone in Australia would have had to deliberately bought an FA chassis knowing the Roadsters in America were only made on the FB chassis, then once it was there had them build a Roadster body on the 131" frame. I see this less likely than the modifications to a 1928 FA Tourer. Plus since we know by the engine number of this car was sold in 1997 in America by BJ, that means in order for this to have been an Australian car originally with RHD with an Australian built body, that means at some time it would have had to be bought by a collector in Australia, shipped to the U.S., lived its life there for a while, then sold by BJ to the man Frank bought it from and shipped back to Australia where it ended up in the estate sale. Thats a lot of back and forth between continent's. I would suspect the alterations of this car from a Tourer to a Roadster occurred in the U.S. and then it was sold at the BJ auction, shipped to Australia and maybe changed to RHD at that time. Only way to know for sure on that part of the puzzle is to get some pictures or the cataloge from the 1997 BJ Auction or someone in our hobby who might have an auction catalog or attended and snapped some shots.

Edited March 23, 2020 by 29StudiePrez (see edit history)

[58L-Y8]

Large older luxury cars once they hit the used car market in the 1930's had very little resale value in spite of still being in good condition.  They were prime material for conversion to fire department crew cars and fire trucks by small fire departments who needed more capable equipment.  Their heavy chassis and large engines could carry the necessary equipment quickly in emergencies.  Other such large cars were converted to trucks as practical need dictated.   Not unlikely this '28 FA President tourer was one of thousands such conversions.  The upside is the chassis survived to this era when they could then be re-bodied as a passenger car open body style in collector demand.  How well that re-body craftsmanship is done varies greatly.

[Touts]

As I was dismantling the 1929 Studebaker 8 President Roadster on an incorrect 131” Chassis,  😳

I came across some BJ paperwork for consideration.

 

There is not much information only saying that it is a 2 Seat Roadster, but of course it has a Rumble Seat also.

 

Based on the excellent feedback received to date I’m now in a much better position to make a decision on the future of the car and would like to thank all.

 

To date I’m reluctantly planning on having the body professionally stripped as mentioned as to inspect the original construction and possible past modifications.

 

On another note , could anyone post some information if any about Paint and Colours used on Studebakers of the 1920/1930 period colour.

 

I have not seen the combination colour or detailed information on the web.

Regards, Frank 

 

 

[29StudiePrez]

Frank,

Wow thats great to find that paperwork. I took the opportunity this morning to Call Barrett Jackson and speak with their office hoping to find more info on the car, background info and mainly an auction photo possibly showing if it was still LHD or RHD at that time.

Unfortunately they had no other details other than what we have already learned and what you have on that paperwork. They didnt even have a library of past Auction catalogs which I was hoping to see if the car had a picture of it in there. The only added information I got was that the Auction occurred on a Wednesday January 1st, 1997 in Scottsdale Arizona. I did put out some other inquiries to some hobbyist here in the U.S. and one gentleman I talked to didn't have a catalog from then but did attend that auction. He said he has pictures in storage in took while there, but was unsure if any of them included your car. I found a 1996 Catalog on Ebay, but not 1997. 

Someone out there must know of this car, ran across it, or have taken a picture of it before being sold in 1997. A prior picture would definitely help answer some questions, I'll keep nosing around and let you know if I discover anything. 

Also, here is another idea. Not sure how good, or far back Australian export/import records go, but if at anytime this actually had been imported or exported into Australia, either originally or if it went to the U.S. before the auction just to be sold after a few years to get returned, I wonder if you would be able to find any old records through Australian customs? Maybe not back to the 1920s, but possible it being shipped to the US in the 60s, 70s or 80s? Just an idea to pursue on your end.

Edited March 24, 2020 by 29StudiePrez (see edit history)

[29StudiePrez]

Also, I do have a paint chip chart as well as a stack of the real 3x5 paint chip cards, I will post some here but camera probably wont capture the colors as correctly as they appear in person but I'll post what I can. There also are several articles written in the past by knowledgeable members of the Antique Studebaker Club on original color combinations and colors for specific body types for specific years. I would recommend you join the ASC if you can. I think you have a great opportunity here to make something special of this car if you take what you have and make it as authentic as possible with all the correct period parts, paint colors etc. If you do decide to keep it RHD, since you have it apart now, you have the chance to make the conversion at least correct and authentic looking (like the items that should be on the drivers side (tail light, correct set up on the linkage for accelerator pedal, emergency brake etc, instruments in the correct order for the driver, tool door) and the items that belong on the passenger's side (Rumble seat step plats, Golf door and in the correct style back near the left rear fender etc). Just some random thoughts on what I'd do to make a gem out of that.

Edited March 24, 2020 by 29StudiePrez (see edit history)

[3macboys]

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AUCTION Catalogs useful tools or just pretty pictures?

By 1937hd45, February 23 in General Discussion

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Sorry I could't make that copy smaller but just maybe in the stack of catalogs on this thread is the one you are looking for here

[8E45E]

From the May, 1997 Cars & Parts magazine:

 

It is clearly RHD in the photo.

Edited March 24, 2020 by 8E45E (see edit history)

[29StudiePrez]

Wow. There it is. Still RHD in 1997. Excellent detective work 8E45E. At least that part of the puzzle is cleared up. So if it came to the U.S. from Australia before the BJ Auction then maybe Frank can find records of it leaving Australia from Customs. If not, then it could have returned to the U.S. from some other RHD country. I would think someone out there in the Hobby knows of this car, the past owner before the Auction and know of its origins. I cant imagine whoever owned it not being in contact with someone from the SDC or ASC.

Edited March 24, 2020 by 29StudiePrez (see edit history)

[mike6024]

'29 President Roadster side view

[Gunsmoke]

I don't think it has been mentioned the possibility of the car being a factory "prototype' that eventually sold? Longshot perhaps? That golf bag door has an unusual shape  sorta square with rounded corners. Any period car have one looking like that?  When it's open, does the area accessed look like it would take a set of clubs or are their things in the way (seat back, braces etc)? And the golf bag door looks so thick, most I have seen are only an inch thick or so. Makes me think it is home-made. Enjoying the puzzle.

Edited March 24, 2020 by Gunsmoke
added more detail (see edit history)

[Harry Studebaker Kramer]

Might be an idea to contact Greg Diffen from the Stude club in the UK..he is on facebook...I believe he may know some history on this vehicle from a post he commented on a few weeks ago..🤔

[29StudiePrez]

Frank, 

I don't have any 1928 Paint colors for Studebaker but I do have 1929. Here is a sample of what was available for 1929. I'm sure Richare Quinn "studeq" in this forum has literature that can help with knowing what was available then. He commented earlier so you can probably private message him. Not sure what colors on my charts may have carried over into '29 but this will at least give you an idea. Also there is a letter by the Studebaker Corporation sent out to dealers at that time that basically said that a Dealership shouldn't lose the sale of a car over a color, so a car could be ordered in primer and painted by the dealership to the customers request. So technically if you wanted to stay original and you saw a color combination you liked, using the colors available for that time, you still would be fine and historically correct. 

Edited March 24, 2020 by 29StudiePrez (see edit history)

[mike6024]

 

 George Hunt behind the wheel of the President “Speedway” Roadster with the AAA timing crew.

 

The first order of business to prepare for the run was to develop a 7 to 1 high compression cylinder head, a high-lift camshaft with .375 lift, a 3.47 rear axle and carburetor jet changes. For a production record to be recognized by the AAA it required a run of 100 of the modified roadsters to be built. Studebaker named the special car the “President Speedway” Roadster and offered it in grey or black with red chassis, wheels and leather upholstery and a flame red cylinder head. The 337 c.i. nine-main-bearing L-head eight produced 122 h.p.

 

http://theoldmotor.com/?p=152608

[29StudiePrez]

The test trials in this picture I believe were done in late 1931 and The President "Speedway " model came out in 1932 and I believe continued to 1933. Not the same as what we're looking at here in 1928. I'm still leaning towards this being a reconstructed 1928 FA Tourer.

[Touts]

The car car that I have referred to a couple of times is what l called the Pagoda Car until I was corrected.

My initial thoughts was that my car resembled this car with these simple observations.

1. I had no knowledge about Studebaker Wheelbase measurements.

2. The Pogoda car has the Spare Wheel mounted on the rear , not both sides like mine.

3.It has the same Bumper Bar.

4. It has the same Windshield 

5. Don’t mention the Headlight 8 Bar & Original Lights. 😡

6. It has the dropdown rear end and not the “Bump” type I noticed on some car types (I think there called an “All Seasons Roadster “)

 

I now have a passion for these cars and would like to base any restoration on the pagoda car.

 I’m not convinced that my car is any type of racer but I think it would look period and original if I went down that road even with the wheelbase issues in mind.

 

 

 

 

[edinmass]

While I would like a bunch more specific photos, I am starting to draw a conclusion of what the car is...........that being said, it still doesn’t make much sense. Like in many other parts of the car world, there are usually one or two people who focus on a small segment of the hobby, and have knowledge that is very limited and not often published. There must be one or two Stude people who are the go to people on 1928 cars........especially Presidents. 80 percent of the car makes sense, and 20 percent seems to be later changes and modifications. I am not ready to express my opinion yet, as I can’t prove it. First thing I would do is look in Studebaker club publications, as often unusual and large cars such as this one usually have had things posted about them in the club magazine. There is much more correct and “as built” on this car than I thought at the start of the inquiry. It’s unusual for a 1928 car, and it has grabbed my attention.........which is unusual. I would also look for 1928-1929 trade magazine publications for Australia and the motor shows listings. It is a neat and unusual Stude. I give it three thumbs up.👍👍👍
 

The three thumbs up rating implies that I think there is more correct and “right” about the car than I thought at the beginning of the post. 

Edited March 24, 2020 by edinmass (see edit history)

[29StudiePrez]

2 hours ago, Touts said:

The car car that I have referred to a couple of times is what l called the Pagoda Car until I was corrected.

My initial thoughts was that my car resembled this car with these simple observations.

1. I had no knowledge about Studebaker Wheelbase measurements.

2. The Pogoda car has the Spare Wheel mounted on the rear , not both sides like mine.

3.It has the same Bumper Bar.

4. It has the same Windshield 

5. Don’t mention the Headlight 8 Bar & Original Lights. 😡

6. It has the dropdown rear end and not the “Bump” type I noticed on some car types (I think there called an “All Seasons Roadster “)

 

I now have a passion for these cars and would like to base any restoration on the pagoda car.

 I’m not convinced that my car is any type of racer but I think it would look period and original if I went down that road even with the wheelbase issues in mind.

 

 

 

 

Frank, 

The "Pagoda" car is one of the 1929 Roadsters featured at the Indy 500 that year to promote the Studebaker models. The "Pagoda" is the observation/comtrol tower for the Indianapolis Raceway in 1929.

The reason it has a rear mounted spare was because Studebaker did not offer sidemount fenders on the Roadster until late 1929 and 1930. Before that they were all rear mounted spares. 

The car in the picture with the Indy 500 tower in the background was not an Indy 500 race car, Studebaker was selected to be the Marquee for the pace car that year so they used the opportunity to promote sales for Studebaker. So they had 5 Studebaker FH Roadsters set up to be "Pace Cars" as well as 4 FE Tourers they used for the Pre- Indy 500 parade around the race track to chauffeur dignitaries and the Grand Marshall as well as one which was set up as a camera car. All were there to promote sales of Studebaker and show off there flagship President Models. So again, these are just promotion pictures of stock Studebaker Roadsters as they came off the assembly line and as you would have found them at the dealership. However if you look at the last picture I posted you will see that President Roadster is one of the actual pace cars. Studebaker took 5 stock Roadsters fitted them with different wheels which had larger brake drums and were fitted with larger hubcaps (Same wheels as the FE President Brougham) it also had a high compression head, high speed rear end and were all painted a special color combination of black and silver jist for the Indy 500. Studebaker promoted all these options, the high compression head, finned brake drums and high speed rear ends you could purchase for your new President if you wanted to spend the extra money.

 

Edited March 24, 2020 by 29StudiePrez (see edit history)

[8E45E]

4 hours ago, mike6024 said:

 

 George Hunt behind the wheel of the President “Speedway” Roadster with the AAA timing crew.

 

The first order of business to prepare for the run was to develop a 7 to 1 high compression cylinder head, a high-lift camshaft with .375 lift, a 3.47 rear axle and carburetor jet changes. For a production record to be recognized by the AAA it required a run of 100 of the modified roadsters to be built. Studebaker named the special car the “President Speedway” Roadster and offered it in grey or black with red chassis, wheels and leather upholstery and a flame red cylinder head. The 337 c.i. nine-main-bearing L-head eight produced 122 h.p.

 

http://theoldmotor.com/?p=152608

The 1931 President Four Seasons Roadster with the "Speedway" option was identifiable by its RED chassis and underbody components. https://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/forum/your-studebaker-forum/general-studebaker-specific-discussion/29712-more-eye-candy-12-16-prewar

 

Craig

[29StudiePrez]

Frank,

Here are some original pictures of Studebaker Roadsters. 

 

(Also Studebaker did not make the  "Four Season Roadster" until 1931 and it was the first year for the oval headlights)

[Touts]

Posted yesterday at 03:57 PM (edited)

The car is a Studebaker President though it does not have a standard body so I suspect the body was built in Australia. Looking at what is left of the serial plate I am guessing the car was assembled in the Walkerville, Ontario Canada plant and not the main plant in South Bend, Indiana. There was nothing particularly unique about the right hand drive (RHD) as Studebaker assembled them routinely for European, African and Down Under markets. There are no production figures by body style and none for the RHD option. In addition to the non-standard body the headlights and cowl lights are also non-standard. As to whether a 1928 or 1929 very simple to determine by the wheelbase (131" on the '28 FB and 135" on the '29 FH). This can also be determined by the engine number that is STAMPED INTO the block on left front. '28 had a FB prefix, '29 had FH. One last determining feature is the date code on the block. Check the left side and look for a letter followed by two numbers. That will indicate the month and year the block was cast. I am attaching images of both the FB and FH roadsters with standard Studebaker roadster bodies. Have many more plus lots of technical data. 

 

Thank you Studeq for your valued contribution.
 

I understand that cars were imported into Australia from the United Kingdom after the 2nd WW to minimise taxes, these were called CKD (Completely Knocked Down) cars . I was not aware that this was the case in the 1920’s.

 

My initial concern was the LHD/RHD issue however what soon became apparent was that the wheelbase on this car is an original 131” Chassis.  This appears to incorrect and Inconsistent for the 1928 / 1929 Studebaker 8 Roadster . 

We now know that the car was purchased in the USA @ a BJ Auction Arizona in January 1997 and imported to Australia by a major collector. I was stored and sold again at auction 2020 and I became the new custodian.

 

Whilst there are many theories the baffling question remains, “What is a “questionable“ Roadster 8 body doing on an original 131” Chassis and if Studebaker didn’t put it on who did. 

I suggest that someone would know something and I’m hoping they will come forward with the missing information as this will contribute its future, I’m sure the answer is in the USA or in the RHD country prior it’s importation.

 

Your reputation proceeds you and I am great full for any contribution.

frank 

[1937hd45]

My Studebaker knowledge is very limited, just wonder if the factory modified things when they were racing the cars on the board track at Atlantic City. Bob 

[29StudiePrez]

1 hour ago, 1937hd45 said:

My Studebaker knowledge is very limited, just wonder if the factory modified things when they were racing the cars on the board track at Atlantic City. Bob 

Not sure in that particular case but in most of the situations where you see the car looks like they just drove it off the showroom, Studebaker spent a lot of time and resources running stock factory cars to set various speed and endurance records to promote the Marquee to the buying public. And you can tell by the amount of bragging they did in their advertising. Everything from having gone the fastest, furthest, longest and even the highest (climbing Pikes Peak) The Studebaker race cars that are the style of race cars you think of in the traditional sense looked like they do in this pic which is of two Studebaker Indy 500 cars.

[1937hd45]

Sorry if I'm taking this post sideways, just sharing stuff I've had for years. Note that the race motor was a $750.00 factory option, wonder if that was a first in the industry?  Bob 

Edited March 24, 2020 by 1937hd45 (see edit history)

[29StudiePrez]

Yeah Bob, stop distracting everyone.

🤣😂🤣

Could be. I know because of the Indy 500 they were promoting more items that were performance related other than using the speed and endurance records for sales.

As an exmaple my 1929 President FE Tourer came with "finned" brake drums for heat displacement on high speed braking and it came with a 3:1 high speed gear ratio. The other option was a High Compression head and they had 3 you could have had on the car. The standard head was painted green like the motor, the next one up in compression the head was painted Orange and the highest was painted a light blue. I theorize this was done so mechanics at the dealership when they opened the hood could easily know what engine they were working with. Unfortunately my car didnt get a high compression head just the optional brakes and rear end. But that alone allowed me to crusie comfortably at 55-65mph on the Freeway.

Edited March 24, 2020 by 29StudiePrez (see edit history)

[8E45E]

1 hour ago, 1937hd45 said:

Sorry if I'm taking this post sideways, just sharing stuff I've had for years. Note that the race motor was a $750.00 factory option, wonder if that was a first in the industry?  Bob 

 

More on that engine here: https://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/forum/your-studebaker-forum/general-studebaker-specific-discussion/68336-1930s-studebaker-racing-engine-photos-i-found?66720-1930s-studebaker-racing-engine-photos-I-found=

 

Craig

[nzcarnerd]

7 hours ago, Touts said:

Posted yesterday at 03:57 PM (edited)

The car is a Studebaker President though it does not have a standard body so I suspect the body was built in Australia. Looking at what is left of the serial plate I am guessing the car was assembled in the Walkerville, Ontario Canada plant and not the main plant in South Bend, Indiana. There was nothing particularly unique about the right hand drive (RHD) as Studebaker assembled them routinely for European, African and Down Under markets. There are no production figures by body style and none for the RHD option. In addition to the non-standard body the headlights and cowl lights are also non-standard. As to whether a 1928 or 1929 very simple to determine by the wheelbase (131" on the '28 FB and 135" on the '29 FH). This can also be determined by the engine number that is STAMPED INTO the block on left front. '28 had a FB prefix, '29 had FH. One last determining feature is the date code on the block. Check the left side and look for a letter followed by two numbers. That will indicate the month and year the block was cast. I am attaching images of both the FB and FH roadsters with standard Studebaker roadster bodies. Have many more plus lots of technical data. 

 

Thank you Studeq for your valued contribution.
 

I understand that cars were imported into Australia from the United Kingdom after the 2nd WW to minimise taxes, these were called CKD (Completely Knocked Down) cars . I was not aware that this was the case in the 1920’s.

 

My initial concern was the LHD/RHD issue however what soon became apparent was that the wheelbase on this car is an original 131” Chassis.  This appears to incorrect and Inconsistent for the 1928 / 1929 Studebaker 8 Roadster . 

We now know that the car was purchased in the USA @ a BJ Auction Arizona in January 1997 and imported to Australia by a major collector. I was stored and sold again at auction 2020 and I became the new custodian.

 

Whilst there are many theories the baffling question remains, “What is a “questionable“ Roadster 8 body doing on an original 131” Chassis and if Studebaker didn’t put it on who did. 

I suggest that someone would know something and I’m hoping they will come forward with the missing information as this will contribute its future, I’m sure the answer is in the USA or in the RHD country prior it’s importation.

 

Your reputation proceeds you and I am great full for any contribution.

frank 

 

You said - "I understand that cars were imported into Australia from the United Kingdom after the 2nd WW to minimise taxes, these were called CKD (Completely Knocked Down) cars . I was not aware that this was the case in the 1920’s."

 

Beginning in the 1920s New Zealand imported most of its lower price American cars from Canada to get a more favorable import duty rate. This only applied to Fords, Chevrolets and Plymouths (and maybe the early DeSotos) though.

 

New Zealand had a different system to Australia in that Australia imported many cars in chassis form and had bodies built locally. New Zealand didn't have a large scale body building operation so many cars arrived CKD, as you noted.  GM began local assembly in 1926 but there were no locally assembled Chrysler products before 1935.

 

Post WW2 our Canadian-built GM cars arrived SKD - semi knocked down, with the bodies painted and trimmed. The numbers involved were smaller than pre WW2 as British cars gained a larger market share. I do know that in the 1960s the Australian import system for Canadian GM models was quite different to NZ with a much greater percentage of local content.

 

As far as Studebakers are concerned, as far as I know the cars sold in NZ all came from South Bend, even though they had a factory in Canada. I have not seen a car with a Canadian serial number. I suspect the same would apply to Canada.

 

As was noted elsewhere there are no surviving records of Studebaker's right hand drive production numbers. Unfortunately here in NZ there are no detailed records of import figures, only calendar year total by makes of new registrations. Even those figures only date back to 1925, the first year of a national registration system.

[29StudiePrez]

1928 Studebaker "FB" President Roadster I pulled out of a barn in Elk Grove, California. That was about 30yrs ago.

[Ozstatman]

The body could be Australian built "back in the day", although I doubt a reputable builder like Holdens or TJ Richards would have produced the rear rumble seat section without drainage channels. The reason I mention TJ Richards is that they did do Studebaker bodies, at least in the later '30's. with the same bodies built on late '30's Packards as well as on late '30's Studebakers. Basically the same body from the windscreen back. By coincidence there was a '39 TJR bodied Packard at the same auction. Very rusty, went for AUD $100 to a scrapper.

 

And while I'm somewhat  will just throw in a couple of photos of a mates RHD Detroit built '34 Packard chassis. Aside from the RHD steering all the linkages for brakes and clutch are actuated by a series of rods and levers from the RHD pedals to the still set up LHD clutch and brake controls.

 

[29StudiePrez]

Frank,

This is what the correct radiator badge/emblem looks like that you would need for your radiator. The one that says "Made in USA" (it is supposed to be chromed) was the one Studebaker put on their export models, the one without that was a regular US built car for domestic sales. 

The last pic is what the tag looks like that attaches to the firewall that tells what model it is and what number it was of those models made. On this tag its an "FA" Sedan and was the 382nd built. Since your is a Roadster it would be "FA R-2" in reality if yours started out as a 1928 Touring it would have said "FA T-2" which would have been FA President Touring Dual sidemount.

[mike6024]

It looks like the distance between the front edge of Frank's golf door, and the rear edge of the (front) door is about the same as the distance between the front and rear doors of a Tourer. I suppose everyone has noticed this already, but i thought it was worth mentioning explicitly. Do these pictures suggest the golf door could have been made by using a portion of the rear door of a 4-door Touring?

 

Edited March 25, 2020 by mike6024 (see edit history)

[29StudiePrez]

All things considered I'm pretty certain that this was originally an FA Tourer, the front half with the 5 instrument dash, the front sidemount fenders, the area on the underside where Frank pointed out the uneven line or buldge in the body line, the width of the body and cowl vs the narrow style of a Roadster. And on the rear of the body Studebaker would have placed the golf door on the passenger side and it would have been squared off with one corner following the fender line and back towards the rear fender, the lack of channeling around the opening of the Rumble seat, no second lid, and I'd bet the top bows aren't matching up like they should.

If I was Frank I'd take on the theme with this car of restoring it to the Standards that Studebaker would have taken had it been imported into Australia as a CKD (Completely Knocked Down) and having had the body custom built. I'd make sure all the correct RHD features were all in place as they would have been originally, tail light on drivers side,.step plates and golf door on the passenger's side etc. I'd make it so even the best expert would be scratching there head and wondering and leave no loose ends like all of us have detected. Just my opinion. I think rhe whole process to put the car in that state and condition would be a fun, challenging and rewarding endeavor.

[Touts]

Today I had a long conversation with Joe, he is an Old School, Car  Body guy who has done some great work for me over the years.

 

I don’t think he is fully aware of what I have install for him but he says he is up for the challenge, now I dragged him back out of retirement.

 

He does not see any problem with the Rain Channels and the Golf Door area.

 

I’ve reluctantly decided to have the car stripped as I hope it would expose more history information to the areas discussed.

 

I’m planning on doing what StudiePrez posted and try to restore the Studebaker 8 President 131” back to as original as I can.

 

The basis of my planned restoration is the Pagoda Car,  Correctly known as The Indy Speedster Car maintaining the 131” Chassis of coarse.

 

In relation to its authenticity I am confused with the front Emblem .

it currently has the pictured Emblem. Is this correct understanding that I still don’t know what it is or where it came from.

“The Made in USA” 🇺🇸 Inscription I believe were used on export models which may hold a clue.

 

Please don’t mention the missing Winged Radiator Cap.😡

 

This remarkable Forum has shown me  why Car Guys do what they do. Thanks for you contributions.

frank

 

[Harry Studebaker Kramer]

Hi Frank

Have you contacted Greg Diffen in the UK..🤔

[8E45E]

4 hours ago, 29StudiePrez said:

All things considered I'm pretty certain that this was originally an FA Tourer, the front half with the 5 instrument dash, the front sidemount fenders, the area on the underside where Frank pointed out the uneven line or buldge in the body line, the width of the body and cowl vs the narrow style of a Roadster. And on the rear of the body Studebaker would have placed the golf door on the passenger side and it would have been squared off with one corner following the fender line and back towards the rear fender, the lack of channeling around the opening of the Rumble seat, no second lid, and I'd bet the top bows aren't matching up like they should.

If I was Frank I'd take on the theme with this car of restoring it to the Standards that Studebaker would have taken had it been imported into Australia as a CKD (Completely Knocked Down) and having had the body custom built. I'd make sure all the correct RHD features were all in place as they would have been originally, tail light on drivers side,.step plates and golf door on the passenger's side etc. I'd make it so even the best expert would be scratching there head and wondering and leave no loose ends like all of us have detected. Just my opinion. I think rhe whole process to put the car in that state and condition would be a fun, challenging and rewarding endeavor.

If this car is actually a home-built conversion from two different cars, someone sure took an incredible amount of time to make it appear like a factory offering to the point where everyone is speculating what it really is at present.  

 

On the other hand, if it was made by a little-known local body builder, it would be a shame to alter it to a 'stock' President body and then find that out afterwards.

 

Craig

[edinmass]

It’s certain the front cowl and windshield are 1928 Touring. Unless we see all the wood in the doors it will be hard to figure out if the car was shipped as a RHD chassis with cowl and fenders. The wood will tell the tale........that said, if it’s done at any small shop or down under body builder, they did a fantastic job on the scale, and overall lines. While the car has certainly suffered from a hack tractor mechanic at some time in its past, the belt line and style are above average for any 1928 car....."and that’s a rather big statement”. Study the car, the belt line, and proportions.........it’s very well done. With all the interior removed, and detailed wood and iron bracket photos, it should be easy to give a definitive answer on if it was a factory special, or local coachwork. Best guess is the tub and rear body is not made in South Bend. After a project like that, they would not be able to sell the smaller cars if a prospective buyer saw this one. 

Edited March 25, 2020 by edinmass (see edit history)

[29StudiePrez]

3 hours ago, Harry Studebaker Kramer said:

Hi Frank

Have you contacted Greg Diffen in the UK..🤔

I have tried but have received no reply back. I asked him if he any knowledge or knew of the car and its its history or origins.

 

[29StudiePrez]

6 hours ago, Touts said:

Today I had a long conversation with Joe, he is an Old School, Car  Body guy who has done some great work for me over the years.

 

I don’t think he is fully aware of what I have install for him but he says he is up for the challenge, now I dragged him back out of retirement.

 

He does not see any problem with the Rain Channels and the Golf Door area.

 

I’ve reluctantly decided to have the car stripped as I hope it would expose more history information to the areas discussed.

 

I’m planning on doing what StudiePrez posted and try to restore the Studebaker 8 President 131” back to as original as I can.

 

The basis of my planned restoration is the Pagoda Car,  Correctly known as The Indy Speedster Car maintaining the 131” Chassis of coarse.

 

In relation to its authenticity I am confused with the front Emblem .

it currently has the pictured Emblem. Is this correct understanding that I still don’t know what it is or where it came from.

“The Made in USA” 🇺🇸 Inscription I believe were used on export models which may hold a clue.

 

Please don’t mention the missing Winged Radiator Cap.😡

 

This remarkable Forum has shown me  why Car Guys do what they do. Thanks for you contributions.

frank

 

 

Frank,

You want the good news or the bad news first?

Let's start with the good news so you begin the conversation happy. You have the correct radiator shell.

However, it will do you No good to buy a winged radiator cap (Oops sorry ..... I mentioned it) but like I was saying, it's going to do you no good to buy the correct Radiator cap because it is a twist on style cap with tabs inside the cap twist onto the radiator neck. The neck of the radiator you have is threaded. This would have been for earlier and  Pre-1928 Studebakers. The first FA Presidents had a threaded neck and the Radiator Cap, or hood ornament was the "Atalanta Goddess" and it was a threaded onto what you have and did not have the winged theme.

Now, in addition to that, the Radiator badge or emblem you have is incorrect for the radiator shell you have (which is correct for late '28) The badge or emblem that is on it was used on the earlier Studebaker President and others with the rounded radiator shells and threaded radiator necks.

 

So all of this means that your now going to need a President Radiator without the threaded neck but the twist on style neck.

 

Here is a video I made to help explain;

 

Edited March 25, 2020 by 29StudiePrez (see edit history)

[Buffalowed Bill]

Ed,

 

You hit on something that I had noticed from about the time of the first posting. By drawing the body lines out an additional 10," it made the lines flow much better. As I mentioned on the Pierce Arrow forum, it has always been obvious that the body of the Studebaker/Pierce Arrow was transitional, the beginning of which was the short WB 1928 President. In the President and the chassis and the rear body  was gradually walked out from 121" to 125" to 130" and finally to 135." But it's always been obvious to me, that although they continued with much of the same styling, each iteration produced a different look. By 1931 the resulting 130' WB convertible (now with roll up windows) had achieved much of what this car's styling exercise seemed to capture. Whether the look was by design, or just the nature of the project of melding two different cars together, I think that we agree, that  the look is still stunning. 

 

Bill

[studeq]

On 3/24/2020 at 1:42 AM, 29StudiePrez said:

The test trials in this picture I believe were done in late 1931 and The President "Speedway " model came out in 1932 and I believe continued to 1933. Not the same as what we're looking at here in 1928. I'm still leaning towards this being a reconstructed 1928 FA Tourer.

Actually the "Speedway" option was a '31 President roadster only offering (see sales letter below). I covered this topic in my article on the '31s in the May/June 1997 issue of the Antique Studebaker Review. It was not carried over to '32. In 1933 the long wheelbase 336 c.i. President was an actual model name. Confusing but needs to be clarified.  

[29StudiePrez]

1 hour ago, mike6024 said:

These are for sale at $25 for all four, damage included. Would they work?

 

No. If you look at these better they are for 1929 wood spoke wheel tires, protrude out from the wheel and have a square area on the throat you use a hubcap wrench to tighten them down with and they screw on. The ones that go on Frank's car as more flat and snap in. See pics.