The perfect tour car

[John_Mereness]

Some sort of a Ford product in a a Station Wagon.

[Taylormade]

This is the type of buggy I rode in back in 1952 when we first visited Silver Lake.  I took these shots a few years ago when they had the car out on display.

 

 

 

 

These are screenshots from 8mm movies we took in the late fifties of our Ford dune buggy at our cottage.  I thought it was a 37, but it was a 38 based on these pictures. Sorry for the poor quality, but you get the idea.  Bus seats, no seatbelts, we drove around the dunes like maniacs - I guess I'm lucky to be alive.  That's me waving from the front passenger seat  in the third photo and my brother Bob behind me.  Just what everyone wants to see - my old home movies.

 

 

 

 

 

[JACK M]

19 hours ago, Bloo said:

the ones that take the longest jaunts, and have the least trouble seem to be the rat rods. Go figure...

 

 

Right on Bloo.

I have driven this one all over the NW with minimum problems.

I did have some weird stuff happen when I got into a torrential rain storm once.

Its main problem is that I need to go for a 15 minute walk every 150 miles or so. (no seat springs)

 

 

For the OP, The big thing these days are old busses with Cummins engines.

I think those old trolleys are a hoot as well.

Around here its wine tours, The county is riddled with stretch limos and short busses every weekend.

I could build something that would keep me busy full time If I was inclined to go to work.

Edited March 15, 2020 by JACK M (see edit history)

[Taylormade]

2 hours ago, John_Mereness said:

Some sort of a Ford product in a a Station Wagon.

They went from Model As to 34 Fords to Studebaker trucks.

 

 

 

 

[JamesR]

21 hours ago, TerryB said:

Sounds like it would have to be one expensive ride for the passengers for you to make any money in the venture.  To build a reliable car with a hint of old fashioned fun seems like you would need at least a mid 1930s car.  A woody wagon might be a place to start to get nostalgia and room for people.

 

The other night I saw an old movie on youtube that had a great big '39 Cadillac woody in it and I thought, what a great tour vehicle. It looked like the wagon had three full rows of seating with some storage in the back. If you were to throw a couple of comfy jump seats in the storage area, you could have enough room for maybe 9 passengers, plus the driver. I think the '39 Woody had a V-8 in it originally, so maybe a SBC drivetrain wouldn't be too out of character. (I also prefer original, though.)

 

 

 

 

[chistech]

I really think Boston has a great idea. It sounds like he’s got a lot of the particulars in order. With any business venture, there’s always the need for the upfront capital to cover those start up costs. If custom cars are made or cars altered to look old, I’d bet the cost would be at least $25k each. Because of this, it seems a logical suggestion to go with the the Model Ts. Boston could purchase three reliable cars for the price of one and they fit the part exactly. They’re not close to being old, they’re not like an antique car, they are simply old, true antique cars. So for less than $75k, a fleet of 6-8 cars could be put into service with a modern support vehicle and trailer. Doing it any other way and a person would be hard pressed to get 2 cars and a support vehicle for the same $75K.
      We have a historic area here on the coast featuring the original buildings and cobble stone streets dating back to the whaling industry here on the coast of MA. Lots of good harbor side restaurants along with an excellent whaling museum.  Boston has put an idea in my head about an antique tour, taxi type service. Now I have some things to look in to! 

Edited March 15, 2020 by chistech (see edit history)

[gossp]

While I don’t disagree with the financial analysis on using model T’s, I think model A’s just as reliable and a lot easier to maintain. The upfront cost would be double for open cars but likely cheaper in the long run.  Also, finding drivers will be much easier. Car guys will know you are running a slightly newer car but to the general public anything with an exposed vertical radiator is ancient.  As for reliability.... many people in the old car hobby could summarize their experience as: working on other cars and driving model A’s. 

[Bloo]

That's true, but anyone can drive a Model T after a lesson or two. Drivers who are not hardcore car nuts would probably have a tougher time with the unsynchronized 3 speed in a Model A. Mitchell makes synchronized gears that will go in a Model A transmission case, but it raises the cost.

 

I do like the idea of a Model A.

[3macboys]

On 3/11/2020 at 7:23 PM, Wade Lanning said:

Can someone tell me what year and make of car this is?  Obviously the fenders have been cut back and it looks like the side of the hood is missing too.

 

 

Suppose the first picture was on it's way to this?

[Matt Harwood]

For some reason, an ad for this thing just popped up for me. It seems to address many of your issues: old(ish) vehicle, electric power, reliable, but there's no mention of price or affordability.

 

https://go.mokeamerica.com/

 

[Boston]

On 3/14/2020 at 10:52 PM, chistech said:

They are very reliable, that’s why I mentioned them. These days they are a bargain and going with a 17’ to 27’ will get you electric start and the best versions of the de mountable rims. If towing out of the parks is so expensive, simply keep a open trailer and pickup there to rescue a stranded tour car. The T will also give very decent fuel mileage. I would update any car purchased with a water pump and Kevlar transmission bands. If you purchase cars that are currently being used you will have little to do to get them ready. Another good thing is while a water pump helps, it’s not necessary as the cooling system was designed to work on thermal principal of heat rises so while a pump would help, if really hot and barely moving,  and you lost a fan belt, it would’ve the end of the world. The worst thing about using the T’s is there would be no AC other than good old mother nature’s fresh air! I know a guy who could probably set you up with quite a few Ts, priced right, to get you started. Super guy to deal with and I know that personally as I bought my 32’ Olds from him.

You have my attention. 

Someone nailed it when they said that a replica might not offer the feel of an antique and diminish from the experience. I'm tempted to agree. I wouldn't worry about AC as much as a heater and I can likely retrofit something. I do like the Fordor 😉 it has the look and the view people would like. 

So is there a way to contact through some more private means on this thing and get in touch with that guy you mention ? 

[tomcarnut]

I would vote for a Model A. I have a 1911 T and 1936 Ford. The T is easy on parts but tricky  to drive in mountainous national parks with out a second gear and back seat passengers adding weight. The early V8 fords when running are great but mine has not run right since I got it. Fuel system issues are my current problem that an electric fuel pump will solve. The Model A has a gravity fuel system, simpler electrical system than an T or V8 and has three gears and four wheel brakes making it perfect for most cooler weather National Parks.( can even put in manifold heater or some closed A's have had A/C added.  A standard A will run easy at 45MPH all day and easy to master shifting using a double clutch and are fine with back seat passengers. Add that to reasonable parts and tire availability via internet or phone arriving in day or so. If you want to go faster or worry about shifting the overdrive transmissions are available. 

 

Tom

[chistech]

3 hours ago, Boston said:

You have my attention. 

Someone nailed it when they said that a replica might not offer the feel of an antique and diminish from the experience. I'm tempted to agree. I wouldn't worry about AC as much as a heater and I can likely retrofit something. I do like the Fordor 😉 it has the look and the view people would like. 

So is there a way to contact through some more private means on this thing and get in touch with that guy you mention ? 

PM me and I’ll put you in touch with him. Great guy, has national contacts when it comes to early fords, and he’ll treat you right. He also has damn near every part you’ll ever need and could tell you and possibly supply you with any upgrade that would make the cars fit your purpose any better.

ted

[FLYER15015]

21 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:

For some reason, an ad for this thing just popped up for me. It seems to address many of your issues: old(ish) vehicle, electric power, reliable, but there's no mention of price or affordability.

 

https://go.mokeamerica.com/

 

 

I thought these were only sold and used in Hawaii.

Guess you learn something every day.

 

Mike in Colorado

[Boston]

On 3/14/2020 at 5:57 PM, Boston said:

OK so something Christech said

What is the most bomb proof antique tour car ? 

The one pictured is a 1924 fordor Ford LOL It's not expensive, customers would love it. speeds are 45 and below in the park. So how reliable are these old fords. 

Prior to all this virus thing hitting this was the front runner

It just looks like something I'd like to take a tour of the park in. 

[Boston]

OK now maybe it will notify me of replies 😉 

[Rusty_OToole]

My first choice would be an old style body on a new truck chassis like the Asquith or equivalent.

 

Next would be a Chrysler or DeSoto six cylinder sedan or limousine 1938 - 1948. One of the roomiest most comfortable cars made.  They are very reliable, easy to drive, and all mechanical parts are available cheap. There are disc brake conversions available if desired. This illustrates the stock sedan, they made a long wheelbase limousine that carries 8 passengers, they are not very rare or expensive as Chrysler 8 pass sedan or DeSoto Suburban with roof rack. Mr Cunningham drove a Suburban in Happy Days.

 

 

 

[Boston]

Appreciate the thought but those big busses are a nightmare to pull over and park around here. 

Its gotta be something small like the Fordor 

[Boston]

On 3/14/2020 at 10:52 PM, chistech said:

They are very reliable, that’s why I mentioned them. These days they are a bargain and going with a 17’ to 27’ will get you electric start and the best versions of the de mountable rims. If towing out of the parks is so expensive, simply keep a open trailer and pickup there to rescue a stranded tour car. The T will also give very decent fuel mileage. I would update any car purchased with a water pump and Kevlar transmission bands. If you purchase cars that are currently being used you will have little to do to get them ready. Another good thing is while a water pump helps, it’s not necessary as the cooling system was designed to work on thermal principal of heat rises so while a pump would help, if really hot and barely moving,  and you lost a fan belt, it would’ve the end of the world. The worst thing about using the T’s is there would be no AC other than good old mother nature’s fresh air! I know a guy who could probably set you up with quite a few Ts, priced right, to get you started. Super guy to deal with and I know that personally as I bought my 32’ Olds from him.

Who's your friend Christech ? I'd like t contact if I can 😉 

[chistech]

I will PM you.

[Boston]

Having a bit of a time finding commercial auto insurance  for an antique car. Any ideas ? I'm still exploring all my costs and am pretty much down to insurance at this point. 

Thanks 😉

PS just left Hagardy a note, we'll see if they get back to me. The NPS requirements are pretty tight 

$500,000 liability
$1,000,000 per occurrence 
 

Commercial auto insurance provides: 

1.Liability insurance, which includes coverage for bodily injury, property damage, uninsured motorists, and underinsuredmotorists;

 

2.Physical damage insurance, which includes collision insurance; and;

 

3.Other coverage, which includes medical payments, towing and labor, rental reimbursement, and auto loan coverage.

 

Taxis that do not provide tour services are only required to have Auto Liability insurance. The Commercial General Liability covers out of vehicle activities and taxis do not provide out of vehicle activities. 

Insurance Company Minimum Standards 

The CUA Application defines various terms, conditions, and requirements for CUA insurance. 

The NPS has established the following minimum insurance company requirements. All insurance companies must meet the following minimum standards. These standards apply to foreign insurance companies as well as domestic companies. 

1.All insurers for all coverages must be rated no lower than A- by the most recent edition of Best’s Key Rating Guide (Property-Casualty edition), or similar insurance rating companies (Moody’s, Standard and Poor’s, or Fitch), unless otherwise authorizedby the Service.

 

2.All insurers for all coverages must have Best’s Financial Size Category of at least VII according to the most recent edition ofBest’s Key Rating Guide (Property-Casualty edition), or similar insurance rating companies (Moody’s, Standard and Poor’s, orFitch), unless otherwise authorized by the Service

 

3.The insurance ratings must be submitted with the CUA Application. The rating companies do not issue certificates. Werequire the insurance broker to note this rating in the Certificate. If the rating does not appear on the certificate, theinsurance broker must provide it in another document. 

 

PPS 
Christech I haven't called your buddy yet, I'm still getting some ducks lined up. Working on the medical requirements and insurance at the moment, purchasing the vehicle is the final step, and that assuming the Park is processing applications, they're on hold for the moment. 

Page 

Edited April 25, 2020 by Boston (see edit history)

[Rusty_OToole]

You know the Model T only has room for 3 passengers plus the driver and not very roomy for today's larger tourists?

[Larry Schramm]

There is a company here in Detroit that does tours of the city  & Belle Isle State Park in Model A's.  You might call them and see if they might help to direct you to an insurance/ carrier.

 

Here is their web site.  https://antiquetouring.com

Edited April 26, 2020 by Larry Schramm (see edit history)

[Boston]

1 hour ago, Rusty_OToole said:

You know the Model T only has room for 3 passengers plus the driver and not very roomy for today's larger tourists?

Yes, I was just looking at that and exploring some of the 7 passenger touring cars. They're more expensive but more people = more revenue. I was hoping Ford made a three seater touring car but If they did I haven't found it yet. 

[pkhammer]

I'm a Ford Model A guy and that would be the hands down choice for me. Reliable, plentiful, easy to maintain, double the horsepower of a Model T and better brakes which can easily be converted to hydraulics. Parts are available from many sources and bodies like the station wagon pictured are available giving a five passenger capacity.

[Buicknutty]

On 4/9/2020 at 10:43 PM, Rusty_OToole said:

Next would be a Chrysler or DeSoto six cylinder sedan or limousine 1938 - 1948. One of the roomiest most comfortable cars made.  They are very reliable, easy to drive, and all mechanical parts are available cheap. There are disc brake conversions available if desired. This illustrates the stock sedan, they made a long wheelbase limousine that carries 8 passengers, they are not very rare or expensive as Chrysler 8 pass sedan or DeSoto Suburban with roof rack. Mr Cunningham drove a Suburban in Happy Days.

Here in Ontario I there's a Desoto limo, must be a 5 or 6 ft vintage stretch at a junkyard, but the owner doesn't wanting to sell it. Never seen another like it. Its' just sitting there out in the elements.

Keith

[Rusty_OToole]

There is a 1950 Chrysler straight eight limo in Peterborough. They are asking $6500. It's more or less in one piece and doesn't look too rusty but needs everything. Been for sale for quite a while, I think it's over priced but what it would take to buy it is anybody's guess. I would look for a better one even if it cost more, they are not an expensive car even in good shape.

On closer reading of the ad it seems to include 2 parts cars so maybe not such a bad deal if you want a big, big project.

https://www.kijiji.ca/v-classic-cars/peterborough/1950-chrysler-imperial-crown-limousine-1-of-250-built/1494692276

Edited April 27, 2020 by Rusty_OToole (see edit history)

[keithb7]

A few options:

 

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/903684253414908/

 

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/229604325115781/

 

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/2624572817868034/

 

Option three is a good looking, running 1950 Straight 8 New Yorker. Must Go it says. Open to offers. Starting price $7K. Negotiate from there. I see an 8V battery in it. 

 

 

Edited April 28, 2020 by keithb7 (see edit history)

[padgett]

Too many doors.

Just went to the grocery store. Nice weather but had no desire to put top down. Anyone else feel that way ?

[Rusty_OToole]

The shots of the woody wagon gave me an idea. Some years back a friend of mine put an early fifties International pickup cab and front end on a late model Chev pickup chassis. He said it was not hard, the body mounts weren't even that far off.

 

What if you could combine a good low mileage late model pickup chassis with a pickup cab and front end from the forties or fifties, and build a woody station wagon body? There are kits of wood parts that can be adapted to different chassis and wheelbases. You could have a cool looking rubberneck wagon with all around visibility, vintage looks and modern roadability and reliability. It wouldn't be cheap but what is these days?

[Joe in Canada]

On 3/14/2020 at 7:15 PM, chistech said:

I have to say Model T fords are cheap and very reliable. Not expensive to fix with parts everywhere. Depot hacks for larger groups, touring cars for the smaller group or couple. Add Rocky Mountain brakes if needed. I see decent Ts going for $6-8000. Not hard to drive once the driver learns and the main draw is the people road in an original of the first mass produced automobile. They are good in mud and snow also. People probably think I’m crazy but we couldn’t kill ours, couldn’t even come close. It was all original except for the aftermarket water pump. 

Ts would be great if you are not in a hurry. Get 4 passengers loaded with steep hills holding up traffic with horns blowing when they pass will kill the mood if you get a yahoo behind you. But it is a great adventure in a T but a two speed rear end and hydraulic brakes will be a must.

 The old mountain wagon would be much better fitting with a modern drive line as said above.

Edited April 29, 2020 by Joe in Canada (see edit history)

[Boston]

Well my latest pick is this thing. 

The idea of going with just tours for two is distancing. In the new world distancing will be of concern to many visiting the park and it's important to offer I think, more private tours. 

It's a bit more expensive, I'd prefer to find an old Ford of similar configuration. I gotta call the guys Christech suggested on that.