The perfect tour car

[Boston]

I'd like to start a tour guide business in the national parks and use antique tour cars for the nostalgic feel of the whole thing. So what I'm looking for is advice on vehicles that can be or preferably already are bastardized with more modern drive trains that might be more reliable. 

The basic chevy 350 + tranny added. Better brakes, things like that 

For instance this thing with a more modern drive train 
 

 

Edited March 14, 2020 by Boston
the photo (see edit history)

[46 woodie]

Have you contacted the National Park Service about your idea? What you will probably need for insurance might make it cost prohibited.

[Boston]

I have the application right here in front of me, and an entire team of lawyers, accountants hoteliers, guides presently running their own shows in the national parks and assistants I can work with. Insurance is the least of my concerns. What I need is reliable rides to pull it off. A tow out of any national park starts at about $600 for the hook up and runs $2~5 a mile thereafter. 

[GARY F]

If anyone would butcher that car should be hung.

[FLYER15015]

With the car above, you can only take 3-4 paying customers.

Is that enough to be profitable ?

Seems like you need an old RR station type bus.

Saw a '28 Dodge 12 passenger "livery wagon" at a car show once, and that should fill the bill.

 

Mike in Colorado

[Matt Harwood]

[3macboys]

34 minutes ago, Boston said:

I have the application right here in front of me, and an entire team of lawyers, accountants hoteliers, guides presently running their own shows in the national parks and assistants I can work with. Insurance is the least of my concerns. What I need is reliable rides to pull it off. A tow out of any national park starts at about $600 for the hook up and runs $2~5 a mile thereafter. 

I think what you have is the genesis for an idea.  Any car can or could be modified the way that you are speaking of.  The but is... to do it safely for paying passengers and reliably for business purposes.  Google imagines of street rods and you will get all kinds of ideas but none of them will have the sound and feel of an antique car.  Your cost to do it well, for what you are describing would be 100k a vehicle or more and then you'd have to get the insurance company and National Parks to agree to it.  Take a look at the recent news involving the Diesel Bros and vehicle emissions.  A call to a custom car builder might be a good starting point and they can tell you what's realistic and real world pricing.  You are going to be paying by the hour for the build.  I wish you luck but if you honestly started today I would say that you'd be doing extremely well to have the first vehicle built and everything in place 2 years from now.  Just my 2 cents

[Terry Harper]

I hate to say this because on a basic level this is a good idea and I love people taking the initiative in regards to business. However, once you have added a modern drive train

you may have gained in reliability and maintenance cost but lost in nostalgia, the sensory experience, and authenticity.

All I can think of is those wacky buses dolled up to look like trolley cars - and you have messed-up a good antique car

and reduced its value and collector appeal to zilch.

 

Now, imagine charging a premium to cruise passengers around the loop road of Acadia in a restored, well maintained Pierce or Cadillac or other

large fine automobile. No 350 Chevy drive train is ever going to approach that experience, The sound, the feel.

Its akin to the Mt. Washington Cog Railway. I am willing to pay top dollar to be pushed to the top by one of their steam

locomotives but their diesels? Nope! It not that special.

 

 

Edited March 14, 2020 by Terry Harper (see edit history)

[Boston]

Yeah I already own one of those Matt. White Motor Company, 1 of the only 14 produced, the tour cars are a dime a dozen LOL, the restorations on the ones in the park were done by ford and not very well. Very much bastardized those poor things. The one I have would Never work as mines a bit bigger. The deal with those is they're too big. You can't park them very easily, at best you can do a slow drive by. What I want is two passengers in the back of an antique convertible tour car. Tours for two. Something we can pull over conveniently and go see the sights when people want too. 

What I'd want is either something old that was ridiculously reliable or something bastardized to be ridiculously reliable. 

The Packard 8s might work but still if it died parts would be a pain in the butt. 

Edited March 14, 2020 by Boston (see edit history)

[Boston]

Who's got an old tour car minus a good engine ? that might be the place to start. 

[old car fan]

So we have someone on  here wanting to screw up  a car.where are the moderators,kick one guy off for the same.are we picking the victims..the other fellow saved a car the best he could.this guys going to ruin it.

[John Kelso]

You should contact Bob Sullivan in Olympia, Washington he has a Yellow Coach double decker bus with a diesel engine added. Was originally a New York site seeing bus.

[Boston]

I think I've done my bit for saving antique vehicles 

[Boston]

Jak it's too big. I already own an antique bus and there's no way it will work for what I want to do. 

[TerryB]

Sounds like it would have to be one expensive ride for the passengers for you to make any money in the venture.  To build a reliable car with a hint of old fashioned fun seems like you would need at least a mid 1930s car.  A woody wagon might be a place to start to get nostalgia and room for people.

[tripwire]

These guys are using "vintage" buses with modern chassis.

 

https://www.yellowstonenationalparklodges.com/connect/yellowstone-hot-spot/the-coolest-way-to-tour-yellowstone/

 

Here's more info:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Jammers

 

Wes in VT

[Rusty_OToole]

There is a company in England that makes vintage style buses and trucks on a new truck chassis. They look like about a 1927 model. It would be far better to build a vintage style body on a new bus or truck chassis, than to try to use a 50 year old, or more, vehicle even with late model engine.

If it were up to me I would be thinking of building a new body on a late model light truck chassis or importing one of these.

 

A woodie wagon style might be the easiest to build. https://www.oldwoodies.com/resource-woodies-pros.htm

 

Asquith vehicles https://www.asquithmotors.com/

Edited March 14, 2020 by Rusty_OToole (see edit history)

[Boston]

Read back through Trip Wire 

[Matt Harwood]

How about a fleet of replicas like those "Glassic" phaetons? Dreadful, but reasonably reliable and passable enough as old cars for the general public. And far cheaper than building something from scratch.

 

[Boston]

Where did you find that thing Matt ? 
That's a solid option 

Edited March 14, 2020 by Boston (see edit history)

[TerryB]

This would be a good car if your budget would allow.  Nostalgic and V8, brakes could be upgraded.

 

[Matt Harwood]

13 minutes ago, Boston said:

Where did you find that thing Matt ? 
That's a solid option 

 

Google "Glassic Model A" (Glassic with a G) and you should find a bunch in various states and price ranges. Looks like $20,000 is the ceiling but others are considerably cheaper.

[FLYER15015]

24 minutes ago, Matt Harwood said:

How about a fleet of replicas like those "Glassic" phaetons? Dreadful, but reasonably reliable and passable enough as old cars for the general public. And far cheaper than building something from scratch.

 

 

Matt is the 'hero" of the day.

So I wonder when there will be a Glassic class at Pebble, or Amelia ?

 

Mike in Colorado

[Modeleh]

Although the cost of an electric EV conversion is high, I think in a park tour perspective the extra cost might be able to be passed on to the customer somewhat.  I think park guests would be very supportive of efforts made to reduce pollution within the parks.  The electric vehicles are pretty reliable as long as you have adequate sized battery banks.

[Bloo]

3 hours ago, Boston said:

So what I'm looking for is advice on vehicles that can be or preferably already are bastardized with more modern drive trains that might be more reliable. 

The basic chevy 350 + tranny added. Better brakes, things like that 

 

Cars like that are almost never more reliable, particularly ones that are for sale. All old cars that are for sale need sorting. Sorting out a modified car that is a pile of parts that was never engineered as a package is rewarding, but is also more work. The overwhelming majority of people who build modified cars do not realize that and do not follow through. They get mad when it doesn't drive right after all the money they spent and sell it. Nobody told them that the first day the car ventures out of the garage is the beginning of the process, not the end.

 

Its funny. I was away from the hobby for 10 years. Today , with the rapid spread of information on the Internet, and the easy availability of custom parts, I would expect the modified cars to be MUCH better and more reliable than the ones of my youth. They aren't, and if anything they are worse. That is true no matter how pretty they are. At the first cruise in I went to after jumping back into the hobby, one of the prettiest cars there needed help. I ran back to my shop space, which was only about 5 blocks away at the time, and got some tools to help out. I myself have not needed help with my stock vehicles, except a jump start once in a 12 volt car with a questionable battery, after standing on the brake pedal for a half an hour while yacking. That might be dumb luck, but more likely is because I obsess over sorting out my cars at the expense of everything else. I ALWAYS carry a tool kit to cruise ins now. It has got plenty of use, and the overwhelming majority of the cars are modified ones. In my area the best sorted hot rods, the ones that take the longest jaunts, and have the least trouble seem to be the rat rods. Go figure...

 

Maintaining the old stuff requires you to learn more esoteric skills, but less engineering skills (math). It all depends on what you want to do.

 

As much as I am not a fan of that thing Matt posted, It may be the best tool for the job.

 

 

Edited March 14, 2020 by Bloo (see edit history)

[1937hd45]

Here ya go. https://www.hemmings.com/blog/2014/11/17/wish-you-could-buy-a-modern-dodge-power-wagon-wish-no-more/

Edited March 14, 2020 by 1937hd45 (see edit history)

[TerryB]

18 minutes ago, Modeleh said:

Although the cost of an electric EV conversion is high, I think in a park tour perspective the extra cost might be able to be passed on to the customer somewhat.  I think park guests would be very supportive of efforts made to reduce pollution within the parks.  The electric vehicles are pretty reliable as long as you have adequate sized battery banks.

 

[3macboys]

Or this version for the open air!

 

[1937hd45]

27 minutes ago, FLYER15015 said:

 

Matt is the 'hero" of the day.

So I wonder when there will be a Glassic class at Pebble, or Amelia ?

 

Mike in Colorado

 

 

When they ice skate in hell. Bob 

[chistech]

I have to say Model T fords are cheap and very reliable. Not expensive to fix with parts everywhere. Depot hacks for larger groups, touring cars for the smaller group or couple. Add Rocky Mountain brakes if needed. I see decent Ts going for $6-8000. Not hard to drive once the driver learns and the main draw is the people road in an original of the first mass produced automobile. They are good in mud and snow also. People probably think I’m crazy but we couldn’t kill ours, couldn’t even come close. It was all original except for the aftermarket water pump. 

Edited March 14, 2020 by chistech (see edit history)

[Boston]

Great suggestions folks, thanks, lots to consider

[Matt Harwood]

3 minutes ago, chistech said:

I have to say Model T fords are cheap and very reliable. Not expensive to fix with parts everywhere. Depot hacks for larger groups, touring cars for the smaller group or couple. Add Rocky Mountain brakes if needed. I see decent Ts going for $6-8000. Not hard to drive once the driver learns and the main draw is the people road in an original of the first mass produced automobile. They are good in mud and snow also. People probably think I’m crazy but we couldn’t kill ours, couldn’t even come close. It was all original except for the aftermarket water pump. 

 

Not a bad suggestion. A fleet of Model Ts buzz around Greenfield Village 7 days a week, 8-10 hours a day without missing a beat.

[46 woodie]

If your really serious, contact the companies that build the "antique" cars and busses, used at places like Disney World. Modern chassis, with an old looking body.

[Boston]

OK so something Christech said

What is the most bomb proof antique tour car ? 

The one pictured is a 1924 fordor Ford LOL It's not expensive, customers would love it. speeds are 45 and below in the park. So how reliable are these old fords. 

[46 woodie]

Boston, I'm sorry that I didn't think of this sooner. Google, Richard A. Currier Horseless Carriage Co., we visited his shop when the National Woodie Club was up in Ogonquit ME. He manufacturers an assortment of beautiful Depot Hack, Model T bodies. Then, there are several street rod companies such as T.C.I, that make Model T street rod chassis' complete with modern suspension if you want. Next, source some sort of modern, 4 cylinder engines and automatic transmissions and you have the makings of a nice car. Probably is a hot rod shop in your area that would put them together for you.

[Paul Dobbin]

I would not pay to ride in a Glassic or a Shay..  

[padgett]

The bulk of the people do not know what they are in. Think the best way would be to start with a modern chassis (ex police cars ?) and add a retro body. No antiques harned.

[John348]

My oldest son is the facilities manager at one of the larger National Parks east of the Mississippi, and he had told me that to become a vendor is a very involved proce$$.  

[chistech]

4 hours ago, Boston said:

OK so something Christech said

What is the most bomb proof antique tour car ? 

The one pictured is a 1924 fordor Ford LOL It's not expensive, customers would love it. speeds are 45 and below in the park. So how reliable are these old fords. 

They are very reliable, that’s why I mentioned them. These days they are a bargain and going with a 17’ to 27’ will get you electric start and the best versions of the de mountable rims. If towing out of the parks is so expensive, simply keep a open trailer and pickup there to rescue a stranded tour car. The T will also give very decent fuel mileage. I would update any car purchased with a water pump and Kevlar transmission bands. If you purchase cars that are currently being used you will have little to do to get them ready. Another good thing is while a water pump helps, it’s not necessary as the cooling system was designed to work on thermal principal of heat rises so while a pump would help, if really hot and barely moving,  and you lost a fan belt, it would’ve the end of the world. The worst thing about using the T’s is there would be no AC other than good old mother nature’s fresh air! I know a guy who could probably set you up with quite a few Ts, priced right, to get you started. Super guy to deal with and I know that personally as I bought my 32’ Olds from him.

Edited March 15, 2020 by chistech (see edit history)

[Taylormade]

9 hours ago, Ben P. said:

Good.

I just googled a MI company that used to offer rides/tours in 1930’s-40’s trucks that were converted to open buses for ideas.

https://macwoodsdunerides.com/

This used to be extremely common and popular, and I always assumed the ‘vintage’ aspect was their main draw. I see now they’ve converted to modern rigs — don’t know what changed. Maybe a company like that would be good to ask questions of?

Interesting idea - would definitely attract my business. Good Luck.

 

‘These folks have run what we always called “dune buggies” for years on the dunes on Silver Lake in Michigan.  They ran 34 Fords back in the early fifties when I was a kid.  They only held five people and as business increased and the state restricted driving on the dunes, they switched to trucks with three or four rows of seats to take many more customers on each ride.  We had two buggies ourselves, a 37 Ford phaeton and a 46 Mercury wagon.  All the doors and roofs were removed and grab rails installed.  The wheel rims were cut in half and a 12 band was welded in.  The tires were stretched over these widened rims and run at about 8psi.  Man, were those things fun!  I learned to tear down a Ford flathead V8 working on our buggies - which broke down with amazing regularity.  Our cottage was right on the lake with the dunes right behind us.  Great memories.

Edited March 15, 2020 by Taylormade (see edit history)