1930 DeSoto CF on going project

[Fossil]

That Pontiac must have an overdrive transmission in it? 

 

[Guest]

41-9 = 4.55 ratio.  No overdrive.  Shorter stroke at 3 7/8,  than your WPC vehicle.

[Fossil]

Have you ever checked the engine rpm when traveling at 50 mph?  I'd like to compare our vehicles when mine is back on the road.

 

[GTX]

I was reading your blog and just wanted to say Thanks. You have inspired me to get working on my DeSoto.  I have owned my 1930 CF8 for about 30 years and have enjoyed it tremendously. I parked it with a fuel/carburetor problem  a couple years ago and have not been back to it.  What are you running for a carburetor? I agree with your comments to speed it will go. I have had it up to maybe 55mph for short spurts. However.... I don't believe it would ever hold up to a long period of time. 35 - 40 is what I drive it and it has always ran great at theses speeds.

[Fossil]

On 5/3/2020 at 2:26 PM, carbking said:

Looks like someone has replaced the troublesome Stromberg D-series carb with a more modern Zenith.

 

The above reply was from Carbking. Cleaned the air filter the other day and didn't notice any name on the carb. He posts here and you can probably get more info from him. He might have the carb. 

Good to hear your getting your DeSoto back on the road. Feel free to post a photo or two here as it would be fun to see what your driving. I did install a Holley electric fuel pump. I think it's 2.5 to 4 psi. It was the lowest I could find locally. 

 

Edited May 17, 2020 by Fossil (see edit history)

[Guest]

16 hours ago, Fossil said:

Have you ever checked the engine rpm when traveling at 50 mph?  I'd like to compare our vehicles when mine is back on the road.

 

With original size 475/500x19 tires 3047rpm@60mph, 2539rpm@50mph, 2286rpm@45mph.

 

with 550x19 tires        2802rpm@60mph,   2332rpm@50mph,   2100rpm@45mph.

 

They used to say(in the 20's and 30's that the optimum piston speed was 1200 feet per minute so the sweet spot in my case would be 1894rpm at 40.64 mph.  I would have to say that the engineers were right.  It runs beautifully at 40-45 but certainly covers more miles comfortably at 55mph.

 

Tire travel was calculated with 32 pounds of air and the actual measured distance on the ground per revolution.  Engine revs were by tachometer.

 

I hope that neither you nor other readers of this thread think I am in any way trying to suggest that a 1930 Pontiac with a 200ci six compares with a 1930 DeSoto eight.  My replies were merely to suggest that these cars are capable of higher speeds than most people think today.  Most people complain about the noise that the engines make.  To me the engine noise is normal.  I was raised by my Grandparents so this car has been part of my life for over 77 years.  When I started driving it (1959) I don't think it had ever been driven over 45 even though we had taken many trips in excess of 400 miles.  

When I started driving it I was out on a MCAAC tour of 50 miles to Winnipeg Beach.  An almost perfectly straight two lane highway.  Everyone was driving about 40, I pulled out and passed everyone at 45, soon a 1928 Packard coupe passed me, then I passed him at 50,  he passed me a little faster and then I passed him at almost 60 and he passed me again.  We arrive first at the beach and the rest complained long and loud about how we were ruining our cars.

This showed me that these cars could/would travel with current traffic. From then on I always drove about 55 when there was lots of traffic, slipping off on to the shoulder if a truck was wanting to pass.  With just over 500,000 miles on the odometer I am just finishing up my third engine overhaul.

 

If you have half the fun with your DeSoto as I have had with my Pontiac you will have had a great time.

Edited May 13, 2020 by Guest (see edit history)

[Fossil]

That's a lot of good information thank you. I was actually dealing on a 1930 Pontiac when this DeSoto came up and I ended up with the DeSoto at half the money. The lady said that if I decide to get the Pontiac later it would probably still be there and it's something I'm still considering.

[Fossil]

6 hours ago, Tinindian said:

With just over 500,000 miles on the odometer I am just finishing up my third engine overhaul.

That's phenomenal. The speedometer on this says 69,000. The speedo doesn't work but I haven't checked the odometer to see if it is. I know the cable and gear are turning at the transmission but haven't checked to see if it is at the speedo. As a matter of fact I haven't even checked to see if it's hooked up. 

There is a little piston slap but smoke is very limited and as the engine warms it gets quieter and runs smoother. Oil pressure when cold is around 50 psi and when hot is 20 psi. I'm sure an overhaul would help but I'm just going to drive and enjoy it this summer. I'd really like to find another engine to go through and then just swap it in and save the original. The motor starts very easily and it's running much better after taking it out on the road. I'm thinking a good tune up wouldn't hurt anything. 

Depending on the weather I'm going to try and get more done on the fender tomorrow. 

[Fossil]

Yesterday was one of those days. The fender is back on and the tail light installed along with an LED  brake light above the spare tire. I think I'm going to add another tail light to the other side as I already have it here. Too many gawkers and cell phone drivers in this neck of the woods. 

There's a problem with the wiring. It is drawing down the battery when the car is setting. Takes a few days but it's not right. In the dark if you lift the negative post from the battery you can see a faint spark. The car is converted to 12v neg. ground and the wiring has been modified. Some of the work is good and some not so good. Things have been added and deleted. Can't help but wonder how many people have messed with the wiring on this in the last 90 years. 

Today the steering is going to get some attention. There is a little to much slack in the steering to make it relaxing to drive. The steering gear box and drag link will be the first things to be checked. Bought some of the beads to put in the front tires to balance them. Be interesting to see how those work. 

 

 

[ArticiferTom]

GGoing good ! How do you put beads in  tube tires?   Some just bubble balance and edge spin to make sure even set to rim to wheel . Your oil pressures look ok . What weight oil ? Some use 10-30 , I like 15-40 , and others use straight weights . Lots of opinions on that subject . Most will run a detergent if motor was rebuild and it has been used .  Just change more often . Assume you have no filter .

[Fossil]

2 hours ago, ArticiferTom said:

How do you put beads in  tube tires?

Plan on putting a piece of plastic tubing over the valve stem and filling it with beads. Then use compressed air to blow them into the tube. Also have some big syringes that I might half fill and try blowing them in that way. Just hope I don't end up eating too many. 

2 hours ago, ArticiferTom said:

What weight oil ?

30w non-detergent because I suspect that's what's been used in it.  Also added some Marvel Mystery oil.  I'll change it again after a few miles.  After I drop the pan and clean everything I'll probably go the 20-50 route.

[Fossil]

Had to sort out the wiring for the lights and something was drawing down the battery when not running. The most the alternator would charge was 20 amps. I believe I've found the problem and now it's charging up to 40 amps and I don't see any sparks when removing the negative battery cable. 

The more the engine is run the better it sounds. With it running rich for who knows how long I'm wondering if there wasn't some carbon build up in the cylinders and the Marvel Mystery oil is dissolving it. I think I'm going to put some in the fuel also. 

I'm finding that if I short shift I don't have to double clutch. Shifting down still needs the double clutch. Anything above 15 mph no shifting is needed as the straight 8 pulls away smoothly with no fuss at all. Considering that the shocks have not been touched this DeSoto rides very nice. I'm really impressed. 

Took a drive this evening to look at the lakes. Lots of people waving, honking and looking. Highs today were in the upper 70's and the temps at road speed were around 135 to 145 degs. While poking around town they got up to 160 so it appears the cooling system is working fine. 

 I think I'm going to like having June Bug in the family

. 

 

 

Edited May 24, 2020 by Fossil (see edit history)

[GTX]

Car looks GREAT!! I have had my DeSoto for a long time and have so many memories. Nice to see you out,  moving and making some memories. I have a new carburetor and if I remember right it is from a Ford six cylinder. I have to get it out  and start in just to many projects. I  have attempted to post a couple of old pictures .  Hope they show as I'm  not good on this things. One is car in my yard and the other is on Bailey's Island in Maine. We hauled the car up and unloaded at our hotel. Then for the following vacation this was our transportation.

[Fossil]

3 hours ago, GTX said:

I have had my DeSoto for a long time and have so many memories.

Beautiful color. Your white walls really make a sharp combination.

I've run into others that have had their DeSoto for a long time.  I'm hoping to join that group.  Mine is by no means a show car and I plan to just peck away at things as the urge strikes. Going to be making a 50 mile trip with it next week to get some matching paint blended for it. 

The tool box will ride along for awhile. 😄

[Fossil]

Placed the balancing beads in the two front tires today. Have to say they did help quite a bit considering the flat spots on the tires. These are 4 ply nylon tires and it appears they sat in one position for a long time. The runout on the right front wheel is near zero while the tire on the left front does have a small amount but the wheel looks to run pretty true. There is a small amount play in the bottom king pins. Most of the play in the steering is in the steering box. 

Another thing noticed with the wheels off is the front brake cylinders are starting weep. Not enough to affect braking but going to take care of them anyway. 

Took the car up briefly to 50 mph and probably won't do it again. I wanted to know what it sounded it like. Everything is pretty busy at that speed. The tires were running smoother than expected. Gotta see if I can get the speedometer working. Hate to get a ticket on the interstate. 😁

 

 

[Fossil]

I've now got June Bug tore apart and am going through the suspension and brakes. Tie rod was bent and is now straight. The king pins were fairly easy so if your considering this I'd say go for it. They were $200 for the set from Then and Now Automotive. https://www.then-now-auto.com/ 

The windshield and front door windows are safety glass so before making new door panels the rear doors are going to get safety glass installed in them. One is cracked now. Someday I'd like to get the rear 1/4 windows done also. 

I did get the 12v to 6v transformer installed and have been running the horn off of it.  Then maybe an ahooga horn for the smile factor. 😄 Everyone wants to hear the horn for some reason. Getting the heater wired up is next on the electrical list.

got two wheels from ArticiferTom and if I can't get two of mine running true enough I'm going to have to get those ready for paint before installing new tires. 

As fast as this winter is going it's going to be tight before spring. 

 

[Fossil]

One of the members here contacted me a last summer about an engine he had. His dad had set it aside years ago and it had never been used. He says when he tries to turn the engine over with the front pulley socket for the hand crank, that turns but the crankshaft doesn't. The engine looks good inside and all I need is the block. He made me a good deal on it and the truck picked it up this afternoon. Can't wait to get my hands on it and see what's going on internally. 

 

 

[Fossil]

Engine arrived tonight. All 509 lbs. Looking forward working on it. 

[Thane Atherstone]

I have a complete 31 pa rear end and would be happy to give it to you if you can come get it . I'm 60 miles NE of Sacramento.  Phone is 530 273 3662 leave message

[Fossil]

Thanks Thane for the generous offer but living in eastern SD would make that a tough trip to justify. And I have already rebuilt my differential. 

Again thank you. 

[Fossil]

It's been quite awhile since my last post and the engine in the car went down hill as did my health. It got to the point where pain in my neck and back was making it very difficult to do anything. From the x-rays and MRI's it apparent that I am missing a lot of the discs in my spine and arthritis is taking over. 

Back to the engine. It started getting noisy and harder to start. I knew something had to be done before it left me on the road somewhere. I pulled the other engine down to inspect it and found a lot of issues. The block on the engine I purchase had been re-sleeved  and at least one sleeve was cracked. The seller had warned me there was a good chance it was junk. If I remember correctly there was a couple soft plugs missing and it may have froze up. So there went my hopes of using that block for a rebuild. My block was beyond hope as it had already been repaired a couple of times (Cracks in the oil galley and water jacket). Couldn't justify dumping a bunch of money into it. I tried tracking down a 6 cylinder engine but that didn't pan out either. 

Next was installing a slant 6 which is an engine I really like. Unfortunately being a slant design it wouldn't fit behind the radiator. I'm starting to get desperate and don't want to part out the car as it's too nice for that. Some suggest a SBC but that wasn't going to happen in my lifetime. Also I wanted to do it in a manner that it could be put back to original later if need be. 

I knew that Chrysler had bought out Jeep and used the 4.0 for years with good luck. The downfall for the Straight 8 was a week crankshaft and only 5 main bearings. The 4.0 six cylinder has 7 mains. I once had the 232 version in a 1970 IHC Scout and really liked that engine. So I started looking for one of those and finally came up with something I could use. I bet the purest are not going to like the sound of that. Another thing is because of my back I have no feeling in the bottoms of my feet so driving a straight stick is not an easy thing to do. So the decision was made to install an automatic transmission. 

My fifteen year old grandson needed wheels so I gave him my pickup with the understanding that he will help with the installation. He thought that was great and I would never have gotten the swap done without out him. We got to work together and he learned a lot of new skills. His PU is paid for and he informed me that he would like to help more. Great young man.

The drive train is installed and now it's time for wiring, fuel supply and other trim. The shifter comes out of the floor and more or less will look like the original. I was even able to use the original brake pedal. When looking into the car only a purest will notice the difference. Someone suggested leaving the clutch pedal in there to throw people off but with my feet that sounded like trouble. 

It's 1:30 am so I will try and get photos on here tomorrow. 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 11, 2023 by Fossil (see edit history)

[demco32]

Better to have an engine and enjoy the car then not be able to have fun driving the car.

 

[Fossil]

7 hours ago, demco32 said:

Better to have an engine and enjoy the car then not be able to have fun driving the car.

Exactly. The car is large enough that it's easy to get in and out of. It drives nicely and hopefully will be even nicer with the upgraded drivetrain. The biggest plus is the availability of parts. From the outside the car will look completely stock. Just wish I was able to spend more time working on it.  

 

 

Edited September 11, 2023 by Fossil (see edit history)

[demco32]

You all are lucky that you can do this, install an other drivetrain or different engine.

In Belgium we can't.

To keep antique car registration the car has to bee 100% original.

Different engine would give problem with the insurance company too. 

[Fossil]

48 minutes ago, demco32 said:

Different engine would give problem with the insurance company too. 

Can't recall ever being asked if a car was all original. Too bad about that law. Wonder how many otherwise good cars have been parted out because of it?

[Fossil]

Been trying to transfere photos photos from the old laptop to this one and I can't make it work. Guess it's going to have to wait until my Son gets here and he can help me. It's tough to get old and stupid. 

 

 

[Fossil]

I'm able to get the old computer on-line so I will try and add some photos. 

This is the front crossmember the Grandson and I fabricated for the AMC 232. We used the original Gremlin transmission crossmember which needed to be lengthened a few inches on each end. The straight 8 was 70 hp. and 221 cu.in. The AMC 232 cu. in. is 100 hp. The 30 extra horses will be a welcome addition. 

I had to have a new driveshaft made a couple of years ago as the joints were bad. Now I had the pleasure of cutting it apart because the transmission end is now different. The driveshafts were different diameters with the AMC being larger. In wanting to keep it balanced we decided to cut the AMC to the needed length and install the DeSoto differential end into it. A bushing was made to press into the AMC shaft that would be a snug fit to the OD of the DeSoto shaft thereby keeping everything true. When the finished shaft was installed the tail shaft seal was riding within an 1/8" of where it was before. Good enough. 

One of the things that I dreaded was mounting the master cylinder. Originally it was bolted through the casting on the bellhousing. When we pulled the engine and transmission we lost our mount. I wanted to use the original pedal with a new master cylinder. Trying to come up with a mount that didn't float with the engine took some head scratching. Told my wife when the brakes are done it's all down hill. Thankfully we were able to come up with a solution and the brakes work good. You can't see it in the photos but the mount is bolted to the frame. 

 

 

 

Edited September 12, 2023 by Fossil (see edit history)

[Fossil]

There hasn't been any progress made on this project for some time because something else needed to get done before the snow flies. I'm hoping to be done with that in the next month as my health allows. 

It is now parked in the garage and whenever I walk by it I wish it was done. If there is anyway I can swing it it's going to be back on the road next spring. 

[Fossil]

I'm to the point that all projects are done and later this week June Bug is going back into the shop. Before though is going to be a major shop cleaning. 

My Grandson is now working after school so he is only available on a limited basis. I'm happy for him but miss him. I'm to the point where I can usually get out in the shop for 2 or 3 afternoons a day. I'm bound and determined to have the car back on the road this spring. It's hard to see it in the garage and not be able to go for a drive. 

Hope all you folks are having a good new year. 

Chris