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Period images to relieve some of the stress


Walt G

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On 4/18/2021 at 10:35 AM, 58L-Y8 said:

J. Hawkings: Thanks, Kellner would make sense for a Duesenberg J bodied in Europe.

 

Here's what I've identified in this NYC film.  In addition to a number of late 1930's Lincoln K models including a Willoughby panel brougham and a Rolls-Royce sedan-limousine, at specific times in the film are.

2:15; left side, light color taxi - unknown maker.

6:07; 1934 Lincoln KB three window Berline by Judkins.

7:06; unknown maker taxi

7:59-8:01 Duesenberg J four window sedan enters from right side street

8:54-8:56 this same Duesenberg J overtakes the film vehicle, the body might have been by Rollston

9:45 1934-'37 Cadillac Sixteen sedan-limousine parked at the curb.

 

I'm interested to know the makers of those two unknown make taxis.  The Checker Model Y and DeSoto Skyview were ubiquitous, a few GMC/Yellow Coach taxis appear much less frequently.

 

Thanks for making this easy for me Steve.    The Duesenberg at 7:59 & 8:54 is J473 Rollston Sedan which is no longer with us.   This info came straight from Randy Ema.

Duesenberg-J473-Rollston.jpg

Edited by alsancle (see edit history)
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AJ: Thanks for the confirmation, especially from the foremost acknowledged expert in all things Duesenberg.   The fleeting images struck me that it might have been the Rollston limousine pictured on page 144 of Fred Roe's  Duesenberg The Pursuit of Perfection.

 

Now, the really tough question: what carmakers were those two unknown make taxis?   The first reminds me of a scaled down Diamond T Model 80 truck.   The second is a complete mystery.  

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On 4/17/2021 at 11:13 AM, Tph479 said:

09D2E664-A8FB-4E04-A4C2-48589C862DC0.jpeg

 

Something my son is building from scratch at his work for an overseas client. Modelled after no one particular car, just intended to have the essence of the period. 

 

It is being built around modern mechanicals  - a mid 2000s BMW V8 - for ease of use.

 

I look forward to its completion - probably in about two years.

 

Reassembly work on the red BMW 3.0CSL next to it has kept him off the project for a few weeks.

 

Photo  - not 'period' of course - posted on a local facebook page by the father of the young guy in the foreground.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Harry at AR 0321.jpg

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A photo posted a short time ago on a facebook page. No info other than it is "The new mayor of Dallas in top hat, ready for the parade"

 

At a guess the photo date is 1904-05??

 

Car not yet identified but maybe an S&M Simplex??

 

 

20s autos Terry Weber 'new mayor of Dallas in top hat..'.jpg

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3 hours ago, alsancle said:


how do you distinguish it from a 135?

It's not a pre-war but post-war Delahaye. The radiator badge is of GFA style (Delahaye joined GFA group during 1940s).

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Some pictures taken at the 1956 New York International Automobile Show held at the then new New York Coliseum showing my 1956 300 SL which was especially prepared by Mercedes-Benz to serve as a Standwagen for the Show. The person I bought the car from in 1971 purchased it from M-B at the Show. Also attached is a picture of the car as it appears presently.

1956 NY Auto Show 2.jpg

'56+New+York+Auto+Show.jpg

Avus Cedar Beach 2_0497 (2).JPG

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3 hours ago, 58L-Y8 said:

I'd second the Rambler opinion, anyone recognize the other car?

Stoner & Bozer Garage ca 1910.jpg

 

My first thought was Buick but on the badge on the radiator the second - and third? - letter has a 'tail' - maybe a Y or G?

 

The bike is a similar mystery - engine mounted forward and low down.

9 minutes ago, ejboyd5 said:

Some pictures taken at the 1956 New York International Automobile Show held at the then new New York Coliseum showing my 1956 300 SL which was especially prepared by Mercedes-Benz to serve as a Standwagen for the Show. The person I bought the car from in 1971 purchased it from M-B at the Show. Also attached is a picture of the car as it appears presently.

1956 NY Auto Show 2.jpg

'56+New+York+Auto+Show.jpg

Avus Cedar Beach 2_0497 (2).JPG

 

$7295 was obviously a lot of money in 1956 but it was still only about 2 1/2 times the price of a Corvette. In modern terms it is nowhere near the half million of so that supercars go for.

 

Maybe the mark vs dollar ratio had something to do with it?

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2 hours ago, ejboyd5 said:

Some pictures taken at the 1956 New York International Automobile Show held at the then new New York Coliseum showing my 1956 300 SL which was especially prepared by Mercedes-Benz to serve as a Standwagen for the Show. The person I bought the car from in 1971 purchased it from M-B at the Show. Also attached is a picture of the car as it appears presently.

 

'56+New+York+Auto+Show.jpg

Avus Cedar Beach 2_0497 (2).JPG

You now need a modern one to park beside it!

 

Craig

10cis012.jpg

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I think we need a prewar photo about now?

This one showed up in the model T forum a few days ago (Thank you Rich B). So far, no really good guesses what it is/was. Certainly an unusual car. My first thought (for about two seconds) was Hupmobile, long chassis model 20 of 1911 or 1912. However, clearly it is not. While the car appears to be rather small, relatively speaking, the hood is too long, hubcaps and several other details are not right for a Hupp 20. The long chassis Hupp 20 was usually a touring car, of small proportions. Based upon the size of the men, it does appear to be about a Hupp 20 size? This car looks almost like a half-size Ford 6-40 roadster/model K? 

unknown6.jpg

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6 hours ago, wayne sheldon said:

I think we need a prewar photo about now?

This one showed up in the model T forum a few days ago (Thank you Rich B). So far, no really good guesses what it is/was. Certainly an unusual car. My first thought (for about two seconds) was Hupmobile, long chassis model 20 of 1911 or 1912. However, clearly it is not. While the car appears to be rather small, relatively speaking, the hood is too long, hubcaps and several other details are not right for a Hupp 20. The long chassis Hupp 20 was usually a touring car, of small proportions. Based upon the size of the men, it does appear to be about a Hupp 20 size? This car looks almost like a half-size Ford 6-40 roadster/model K? 

unknown6.jpg

 

No idea what it is yet but I notice it has full elliptical springs at the front.

 

The rear springs seem to be not visible.  Maybe it has a transverse setup - like a Paige-Detroit does.

 

P-D doesn't seem to have full elliptics at the front though.

 

Oddly enough there was a similar size mystery roadster posted somewhere within the last few months with similar front springs - now just have to remember where I saw it.

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On 4/20/2021 at 11:06 PM, wayne sheldon said:

I think we need a prewar photo about now?

This one showed up in the model T forum a few days ago (Thank you Rich B). So far, no really good guesses what it is/was. Certainly an unusual car. My first thought (for about two seconds) was Hupmobile, long chassis model 20 of 1911 or 1912. However, clearly it is not. While the car appears to be rather small, relatively speaking, the hood is too long, hubcaps and several other details are not right for a Hupp 20. The long chassis Hupp 20 was usually a touring car, of small proportions. Based upon the size of the men, it does appear to be about a Hupp 20 size? This car looks almost like a half-size Ford 6-40 roadster/model K? 

unknown6.jpg

 

 

Possibly an Otto ? They have a long hood and greater than normal for the era set back of the radiator. I have not seen one in person , but a couple of them have survived. This might be a smaller car however going by the size of the people seated in it.

 

 

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This is a mystery car.  I don't think it is an Otto.  A 1910 Otto ad shows a touring car with a hood (bonnet) that is not as long as the mystery car.  Also a prime recognition feature of the Otto was the arched front fenders and straight rear fenders.  The mystery car has straight fenders at the front and curved at the rear.  Comparing the mystery car to the 1910 Otto there is a significant difference in the dash, with the mystery car having a curved (pressed ?) dash whereas the Otto has a more or less straight dash.  The Otto also mounts the gas headlamps differently than the mystery car.

 

The mystery car apparently has a splash shield under the car that encloses and protects the drive components including the engine, transmission and universal joint.  In old Auto Journal texts in the 1907-10 time frame I read about splash shields, and sometimes the shields were a selling point, or item of note, for a car model.  I believe Hugh Dolnar mentioned shields in some of the articles he wrote.

 

unknown6.jpg.e52b89c6a3a020220aa7835808078781.jpg

10 Otto ad.jpg

10 Otto roadster 01-02.jpg

10 Otto 002.jpg

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I agree about the detail differences. But the general similarity is there. An early prototype or perhaps a owner modified car ? The front spring design is completely different . But many people developed aftermarket " improved " suspension accessories, some of which saw success and many which sunk without a trace. 

 Perhaps this is a car based on an Otto that has been modified to showcase an enterprising owners big idea.

 Of course it may also simply be a different car altogether.

 

Greg

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The identify of the mystery car may now be solved.  The closest match of identity features seems to show a 1908 Maryland.  The mystery car has the unique or peculiar mating of the rear of the running board with the front of the rear fender.  The front and rear fenders and the integration of running board with rear fender appears to be a very good visual match for mystery car and '08 Maryland.  This fender-running board-fender profile is different with the 1910 Otto (the yellow museum car).

unknown6.jpg.e52b89c6a3a020220aa7835808078781.jpg

08 Maryland Roadster DSC07684.JPG

10 Otto 002.jpg

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12 minutes ago, LCK81403 said:

The identify of the mystery car may now be solved.  The closest match of identity features seems to show a 1908 Maryland.  The mystery car has the unique or peculiar mating of the rear of the running board with the front of the rear fender.  The front and rear fenders and the integration of running board with rear fender appears to be a very good visual match for mystery car and '08 Maryland.  This fender-running board-fender profile is different with the 1910 Otto (the yellow museum car).

unknown6.jpg.e52b89c6a3a020220aa7835808078781.jpg

08 Maryland Roadster DSC07684.JPG

10 Otto 002.jpg

Not a Maryland. The front springs on the car in question are full elliptical springs. The springs on the others mentioned have a frame on top of a lower set of springs.

Edited by keiser31 (see edit history)
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3 hours ago, coachJC said:

Looks like someone may be having some car issues...hoods up and you can see some feet on the far side of the car.

FB_IMG_1618965115517.jpg

 

This one was identified by Varun Cutinho on facebook as a 1910 Pierce-Racine. 

 

Proof photo from the Detroit Public Library collection.

 

 May be an image of 2 people and outdoors

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I hope to carry on knowledge of early American car manufacturing to other generations. I’m a gen X person that knows a lot regarding the muscle car era. However, the prewar cars and knowledge is getting lost. Please share anything you want! The knowledge is well received! I could care less about topic! 

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8 hours ago, keiser31 said:

Not a Maryland. The front springs on the car in question are full elliptical springs. The springs on the others mentioned have a frame on top of a lower set of springs.

 

 

The car matches the Maryland in every respect except those front springs. I think it must be either a very early version that used full elliptic springs or a modified from stock car.  Maryland is a pretty obscure car so possibly some used springs like the photo car. possibly a hold over from the Ariel car that the Maryland was developed from. 

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I am somewhat surprised, and pleased, by how much interest and effort this mystery car has garnered. I have looked (more closely than most do!) at many thousands of early car photos over the years. I thought that this might be a tough one. Other than my two second first impression, it didn't ring any bells for me.

Size is difficult without known comparisons. However, the man in the bowler hat reminds me of me when I sit in some small early cars (I am six foot even), right down to the trouser cuffs riding high. From that, and figuring the other fellow is probably of average size (for the day), I suspect this car is rather small, likely about the size of a Hupp 20, only longer chassis. Looking at the Otto in the museum photo, with a model T delivery truck behind it, I suspect the Otto is considerably larger, even slightly larger than a model T in size (ever seen a Hupp 20 parked next to a brass era T? I have.

The Maryland comes quite a bit closer. However, none of the Maryland photos have a good size reference. Checking with Kimes and Clark, I find that the Maryland had wheelbases beginning at 100 inches, and stretching up to around 116 inches. The Maryland was manufactured for four years (1907-1910). The front spring bothers me a bit. I would accept that changes were often being made in those early years, between models, parts availability, and year changes as well as simply making-do with something that happened to be handy when needed. But what really bothers me about it. is the set-back position of the radiator. The mystery car's radiator is clearly a few inches behind the front axle's center. The Maryland, if anything, the radiator's face is a couple inches ahead of the axle's center.

I even looked at the Ariel in Kimes and Clark. It may have been the forerunner of the Maryland (according to Kimes and Clark), but nothing shown of the Ariel really resembles the Maryland details.

The Maryland may still be a contender? 

Somebody, somewhere, will know this one the minute they see it! Meanwhile?

 

Thanks all for you interest! I just figured it was a good one for a mystery.

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A lot of Franklins have lions on their grille..........Come to think of it, this one does too! Now 48 years later I don't think I'd let her sit on my hood now.

 

 

001.jpg

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11 hours ago, 30DodgePanel said:

Unusual body with curved doors. 

Chevy special body type?

 

5ca5501ed090e689b025f01d4f98ef63.jpg

 

This was likely purchased from a dealer as a cowl and chassis, then sent to a local body builder to be fitted with the neat C cab panel delivery.

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