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Period images to relieve some of the stress


Walt G

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15 hours ago, alsancle said:

Walt probably knows where these drawings are coming from.   Ed can confirm it was never built.

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/ORIGINAL-1930s-WILLOUGHBY-COACH-CO-PIERCE-ARROW-VICTORIA-FACTORY-DESIGN-PRINT-/233889301557

WilloughbyPierceArrowVictoria.jpg

 

While the notes describe it as:
Convertible Victoria

Especially Designed for Mr. C. C. Walker

By Willoughby Company

on Pierce Arrow 12 Cylinder Custom Chassis

 

it seems to have a Pre-WWII Mercedes-Benz "feel" about it,

other than the headlights

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23 hours ago, alsancle said:

Walt probably knows where these drawings are coming from.   Ed can confirm it was never built.

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/ORIGINAL-1930s-WILLOUGHBY-COACH-CO-PIERCE-ARROW-VICTORIA-FACTORY-DESIGN-PRINT-/233889301557

WilloughbyPierceArrowVictoria.jpg

 

 

First time I have seen this, and if it was built, no one knows about it. I can tell from the drawing that some of the proportions are off in the hood, cowl, and side mount. Also, the Pierce factory wouldn't have done a windshield that way....even on a one off. 

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4 minutes ago, edinmass said:

 

 

First time I have seen this, and if it was built, no one knows about it. I can tell from the drawing that some of the proportions are off in the hood, cowl, and side mount. Also, the Pierce factory wouldn't have done a windshield that way....even on a one off. 

 

If it is a coachbuilt car,  wouldn't the body be fully custom from the firewall back?  

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21 minutes ago, alsancle said:

 

If it is a coachbuilt car,  wouldn't the body be fully custom from the firewall back?  

 

From 1934 and later, I have only seen cars.......full customs, with a factory cowl and windshield. For some reason, they must have only sold a chassis with the entire nose, cowl, and open car windshield.........which were diffrent than the closed cars.......and 1934 and later open cars were essentially all hand built......even with factory coachwork. I think it might be related to the hearse/ambulance platforms. You probably had to take what they were willing to offer.

 

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I cross posted this from the Rolls Royce thread,  although all of you guys should be paying attention down there too.

 

This picture was taken in 1951 at the Studebaker Proving grounds.   A Springfield Ascot with late headlights and bumpers but early fenders.   Anyone know which car it is?    I don't like phaetons but LOVE Ascots for some reason.

AJ273-Web.jpg

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36 minutes ago, alsancle said:

I cross posted this from the Rolls Royce thread,  although all of you guys should be paying attention down there too.

 

This picture was taken in 1951 at the Studebaker Proving grounds.   A Springfield Ascot with late headlights and bumpers but early fenders.   Anyone know which car it is?    I don't like phaetons but LOVE Ascots for some reason.

AJ273-Web.jpg

In about 1931 R-R in the USA would take a late 1920s Phantom I and update it . Most often with a new body by Brewster . at the same time would update the fenders , bumpers and lamps. I had a Springfield built Phantom I ( S74PM) that was sold new in 1927 with a Huntington limousine body, it was updated in 1931 to a Trouville town car body and the drum lamps replaced as well as the older style fenders and bumpers that looked out dated 4 years later.

Edited by Walt G
typo (see edit history)
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2 hours ago, edinmass said:

 

From 1934 and later, I have only seen cars.......full customs, with a factory cowl and windshield. For some reason, they must have only sold a chassis with the entire nose, cowl, and open car windshield.........which were diffrent than the closed cars.......and 1934 and later open cars were essentially all hand built......even with factory coachwork. I think it might be related to the hearse/ambulance platforms. You probably had to take what they were willing to offer.

 

Ed:

Very good likelihood that was the case, though examining images of the windshield pillars of factory-supplied convertibles and the Metropolitan Town Brougham by Brunn, that company must have replaced the factory windshield with their own cast design.   Have you had the chance to examine a Brunn in detail to ascertain what method was employed?

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On 2/19/2021 at 9:10 AM, alsancle said:

I cross posted this from the Rolls Royce thread,  although all of you guys should be paying attention down there too.

 

This picture was taken in 1951 at the Studebaker Proving grounds.   A Springfield Ascot with late headlights and bumpers but early fenders.   Anyone know which car it is?    I don't like phaetons but LOVE Ascots for some reason.

AJ273-Web.jpg

 

 

And the answer is..........S398KP. 😎

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2 hours ago, edinmass said:

 

 

And the answer is..........S398KP. 😎

 

Ed,  those cowl lights on S398KP are cast in to the band.   They would be a tough add on.   Also,  I would be surprised that someone would put the old style drum lights back on and tube bumpers.

 

Not to mention the big tell which is S398KP  has the hidden door hinges and the car I posted from 1951 has exposed hinges.

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I was going from info supplied to me by a Rolls guy. I think the reason he gave the number he did is from the unusual top........on my tablet, the photo isn’t clear enough to make out most of the small details. But you must be correct.....back to the drawing board.

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3 hours ago, alsancle said:

 

 

How did you figure that out?    It looks better with me sitting in it.

 

 

RollsAscotWithMe.jpg

 

Sorry about the face......you should be in radio.  Nice car. Wish it were mine.
 

 

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22 minutes ago, edinmass said:

 

Sorry about the face......you should be in radio.  Nice car. Wish it were mine.
 

 

 

Somebody got a great deal at Monterey.   You don't get to say that too often.    The hidden hinges are a subtle but awesome detail.

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On 2/19/2021 at 11:42 AM, 58L-Y8 said:

Ed:

Very good likelihood that was the case, though examining images of the windshield pillars of factory-supplied convertibles and the Metropolitan Town Brougham by Brunn, that company must have replaced the factory windshield with their own cast design.   Have you had the chance to examine a Brunn in detail to ascertain what method was employed?


It get kind of complicated.....since Brunn and Pierce were in the same city..........you also have to add in the “leftover” earlier bodies sold as much as four years after they were built..........also chassis length was available in three standard, one commercial, and special order lengths. I have worked on 1933-1938 Pierce towns cars.....Brunn, Factory, and one Willoughby. It’s rather a hodgepodge when it comes to what they were doing.....Brunn used cast bronze in their door posts and supports, and most of the time on windshield body stanchions.......then add in the factory body specials built that now have custom tags added where they don’t belong..........and one can’t say if anything is a rule of thumb. Also, the batch body special ordered semi customs toss in another monkey wrench. One thing is for certain......often body tags, cowl tags, and chassis tags are lost, swapped out, faked, and added to cars.........as well as 8 to 12 conversions. There are currently three of us who “keep a list of changed cars” and the list isn’t public or published. It’s not even on a computer. Just hand written notes. In person, I can identify what the cars were, and who made and did what........but is been a forty year journey. They are still modifying cars and adding tags as recently as three years ago........and one last note......Pierce built factory town cars with split windshields........and they are also often represented as customs............NEVER buy ANY open Pierce or Custom or Semi Custom without professional help. 

To answer your question on the Metropolitan Town Cars.......they built a LOT more than most people realize, and I have seen the sheets in person.......and lots of special one off things done........and Brunn would use factory pieces in places on custom bodies......I think a lot of it was to use up existing stock, and keep the coach builders busy also. It’s fair to say ANY 1933 and later Custom and Semi Custom Pierce were using factory leftovers and scraps to build the specials. There are photos all over Facebook and this site with cars that have been intentionally misrepresented. And there are a bunch of owners that don’t know what they have is mis marked .

Edited by edinmass (see edit history)
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Ed: 

Thanks for the treatise on the late Pierce-Arrow Custom and Semi-Custom, factory and Brunn methods and warning provisos.  I knew you would be one of the few people with enough long-term experience to know the sordid details.  Its not surprising the factory and Brunn collaborated to use up whatever factory pieces possible given how beleaguered both companies were to keep the lights on.   Those Metropolitan Town Broughams are a personal favorite, glad to know there were more built than I would have thought.   Young Herman C. Brunn certainly gave those an extra touch of elegance with that wonderful sweep panel.  His Touring Cabriolets were another stellar design that should have been in the Pierce-Arrow catalog as well.   

 

As regards adding coachbuilder tags: one suppose the motivation of elevated prestige and prospective financial gain is too great for those with little integrity to resist, shame.     

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On 2/18/2021 at 8:52 AM, alsancle said:

Walt probably knows where these drawings are coming from.   Ed can confirm it was never built.

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/ORIGINAL-1930s-WILLOUGHBY-COACH-CO-PIERCE-ARROW-VICTORIA-FACTORY-DESIGN-PRINT-/233889301557

WilloughbyPierceArrowVictoria.jpg

 

A copy of this car is being built out of a sedan.  When I saw it last, about 10 years ago, it was about 60 % complete.  I don't know if it was ever finished. 

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47 minutes ago, mike brady said:

 

A copy of this car is being built out of a sedan.  When I saw it last, about 10 years ago, it was about 60 % complete.  I don't know if it was ever finished. 


 

Not sure if the car is an actual copy of the drawing...........the video I have seen of it.......it looked European. And well done. Up in Canada as I remember. 

Edited by edinmass (see edit history)
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11 hours ago, Grimy said:

You made me turn to Ms. Google.  Her name was Olga Khokhlova


 

Comments withheld for reasons of polite society.........but it’s KILLING me! 🤭

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Gotten a little off topic with all that French body work?  Perhaps someone knows what is on the rear drive wheel of this Model-T Ford, working to go over Donner Pass.  The front wheel has a standard-looking traction chain around the tire, but the rear tire has something different.  It possibly looks like wire rope / steel cable.  Is the rear tire frayed and coming apart?  The tire looks like it has straw around it but it may be frayed cotton cord.

 

Ah, those were the days of off-roading.  Steel cable way, block and tackle, what can go wrong?

Ford T 33.png

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Brooklands, and the Amazing Women Racing Drivers of the 1930s

In 1933 The RAC gave permission for women to drive at Open meetings at Brooklands on equal terms with men. It meant that the nineteen-thirties became the heyday for women racing drivers.

Brooklands, and the Amazing Women Racing Drivers of the 1930s - Flashbak

 

 

Patty Maismith

 

Miss-Paddy-Naismith-pushing-her-car-onto-the-track-for-one-of-the-events-at-Brooklands-England-on-June-5-1933.jpg

 

Kay Petre

 

Brooklands women racing drivers

 

Mechanic. Miss J Alwynne

 

Brooklands women racing drivers

 

Brooklands women racing drivers

Edited by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)
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I am guessing that the MG's are at the Brooklands race track in Surrey, England. There is a Brooklands Society that has an annual reunion there at the track and it is just wonderful to see the period cars at some speed on the remains of the track. I have attended at least three of the annual reunions although none recently.

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