Period images to relieve some of the stress

[nzcarnerd 1,174]

On 12/7/2020 at 9:35 PM, wayne sheldon said:

A question for Ron Hausmann. The source said this truck was a Kissel. Could it be?

 

 

Note the size of the front chain sprocket - not a lot of speed available with that one, although would probably climb any hill with a full load at walking pace in low gear.

 

Compare with what a contemporary race car (this one is a 1904 Gobron-Brillie) might use - 

[Fossil 526]

My grandfather used to play motorcycle polo when he was young.  Ended up getting injured and I think no longer played afterwards.  I understand he hit a stump at the edge of the field. 

[Walt G 3,371]

There was also an Auto Polo Association on long Island , I have a catalog/promotional booklet they issued in the teens. Model T Fords as shown with this post were used as well. I will try and locate the booklet and share here when I have time.

WG

[wayne sheldon 1,314]

1 hour ago, ply33 said:

 

I’d never heard of Auto Polo but looking at the Wikipedia article on it, that is exactly what this car seems to be set up for. Here is a photo from the Wikipedia article. 

 

At the risk of further drift?

When using their roll bars? These cars really ROLLED! A bit over fifty years ago, when I was much younger, several friends and I went to a silent film showing at a theatre that showed quite a few historic films. One of the minor features they showed that particular night was an original newsreel short with an entertaining look at auto-polo using cut down model T Fords with roll bars like these. Several times through the film, a car would take a sharp turn and roll on over and just keep playing! Can you imagine the player, no belts or straps, hanging onto the car and come up swinging his bat at the ball? It was incredible to watch. And I am sure they were putting on a bit of a show for the cameras. At one point, the car flipped over, but didn't quite make it all the way onto its wheels. The driver and player got up off the ground, righted the car, got in and played on!

 

nzcarnerd, That was the great thing about those early chain drives. A simple sprocket and short piece of chain change could change the gearing ratios to fit the circumstances. This worked well for both racing cars and heavy trucks.

[Walt G 3,371]

These R-R photographs were taken decades ago, the light colored touring car was dated it was taken on Nov. 11, 1948 and the car was owned at the time by A.H. Kellogg Clarke of Buffalo, NY photo notes on the back say the car is a 1924 Silver Ghost and that 4 wheel servo brakes were added, the dark colored touring car was owned by A.K. Miller the Stutz enthusiast ( hoarder?) and the photo was taken at his home in N.J. I hope no one takes offense that I refer to A. K. Miller as a hoarder and say I am ' not fair ' like it was mentioned here elsewhere after I made a comment .😷

[Walt G 3,371]

The Rolls - Royce is a Phantom 1 with body by Hibbard & Darrin and was owned at the time the photo was taken by Ralph Gould of Cape Elizabeth, Maine

The coupe is a Hispano -Suiza with what seems to be a body built in the USA , the car behind the H-S that you can see the front of is a 1930 Franklin Airman series 14 roadster with the side curtains and top up.

The Hispano - Suiza dealership building in N.Y. City still stands and is no longer a car showroom ( selling H-S cars!) was located a few blocks south of Central Park South, which is the southern most street to border Central Park.

More useless information!!!!

[alsancle 5,372]

37 minutes ago, Walt G said:

The Rolls - Royce is a Phantom 1 with body by Hibbard & Darrin and was owned at the time the photo was taken by Ralph Gould of Cape Elizabeth, Maine

The coupe is a Hispano -Suiza with what seems to be a body built in the USA , the car behind the H-S that you can see the front of is a 1930 Franklin Airman series 14 roadster with the side curtains and top up.

The Hispano - Suiza dealership building in N.Y. City still stands and is no longer a car showroom ( selling H-S cars!) was located a few blocks south of Central Park South, which is the southern most street to border Central Park.

More useless information!!!!

Awesome!

[1937hd45 3,264]

Walt, None of your comments are "useless" they help paint a picture of life in Manhattan, "Automobile Row" was something my Dad talked about. As the son of a chauffeur he may have had easier access to these dealerships and built quite a collection of sales brochures, sadly it was never saved, WWII got in the way. Bob 

[58L-Y8 1,873]

Here's a better look at that Hispano-Suiza coupe:

[1937hd45 3,264]

^^^^^^ The Hisso Coupe looks great, it that a rear mounter spare or something on the car behind it? 

 

Bob 

[8E45E 1,270]

14 hours ago, Walt G said:

These R-R photographs were taken decades ago, the light colored touring car was dated it was taken on Nov. 11, 1948 and the car was owned at the time by A.H. Kellogg Clarke of Buffalo, NY photo notes on the back say the car is a 1924 Silver Ghost and that 4 wheel servo brakes were added, the dark colored touring car was owned by A.K. Miller the Stutz enthusiast ( hoarder?) and the photo was taken at his home in N.J. I hope no one takes offense that I refer to A. K. Miller as a hoarder and say I am ' not fair ' like it was mentioned here elsewhere after I made a comment .😷

 

There is nothing wrong with hoarding as long as whatever it is one is hoarding does not allow it to deteriorate further than it is, especially to the point of being worthless.  It would mean the items being 'saved' should be kept out of the elements, and/or from potential thievery and vandalism.   How many times have we read here about the car in a yard that has sat for year and years out in the open where the owner has no desire to sell?

 

Craig

[Walt G 3,371]

 Bob, good question, almost looks like a rear mounted spare but maybe not! original photo is a tiny snap shot. I can't imagine what it would be , definitely not something on the Franklin in the back ground.

The most recent "hoarding" incident I can think of is in central NY State where many cars collected and stored away in the 1950s are slowly and reluctantly being sold off by the owner. Excellent original cars when stored were kept inside but never well cared for other then being under cover in a barn and saw a ton of dirt land on them over the decades. tires go flat, engines seize.

[Bob Barrett 40]

Here are a pair of photos from an early family album that have somehow escaped identification over the years. I’ve hung on to them anyway ; because I find them evocative of a time when families of moderate income were quite proud of their automobiles, whatever they may have been. I particularly like this pair because these folks not only took the typical “family with car” shot, but even took one of the kids with the car being repaired after an apparent mishap. It was obviously a cherished family member in good times and bad.

Bob

[LI_BENTLEY 36]

I agree with the hoarding comments. If not for hoarding a lot of the cars we enjoy would not be here.  

[wayne sheldon 1,314]

Bob Barrett, Nice photos! Thank you for posting them.

As much as the two photos look like the same car? They are not. The first one (sitting on the running board) is a Ford model T four door sedan. If I recall correctly, these were introduced in late 1922. This appears to be an early one, likely a late '22 or 1923 model with appears to be low radiator. The radiator was enlarged in mid 1923 calendar year (however considered to be a 1924 model). The radiator was made taller by a bit over an inch, so not a big change, and cannot be absolutely certain it isn't the later high radiator version from this angle in the photo.

The second car (no running board to sit on) appears to be a Dodge sedan, and probably about 1920. They may have replaced the Dodge with a new Ford after the Dodge was damaged. Look closely at the hood on the Dodge. It has no louvres in the sides as the Ford does. Although the cars look very similar, the Dodge was a bit larger, and there are numerous minor detail differences that can be seen in these photos. Mostly in the cowl, wheels, and windshield areas. The fenders look very different, but with the rear fender missing, and people blocking the view of the front fender, those cannot be seen here.

[Bob Barrett 40]

Wayne, Wow, good eye! After assuming for many years that these were the same car in both photos, this is a bit of a surprise. I had noticed that the paint finish was better on the Ford, but it never occurred to me that they were different vehicles. I can indeed see some things that don't match up after closer examination . (I even cleaned my glasses first!) The vertical molding below the belt at the back of the car, rear window frame (bottom back corner), and the sweep of the rear body, from the belt down, are other things that I now notice.

     I'm glad that you enjoyed the photos, and thank you so much for the new information. The new details may even help to identify the subjects in the pics someday!

Bob

[1937hd45 3,264]

The family with that 1923 Ford Fordor was doing better than the same families buying a Touring car, the Fordor was twice the price. Bob  

[wayne sheldon 1,314]

How about something more in line with the Classic era?

The source for this one a few years back speculated that it was a 1928 LaSalle. Wheelbase looks a bit short, but?

 

 

Edited December 27, 2020 by wayne sheldon
I hate leaving typos! (see edit history)

[edinmass 12,670]

1 hour ago, wayne sheldon said:

How about something more in line with the Classic era?

The source for this one a few years back speculated that it was a 1928LaSalle. Wheelbase looks a bit short, but?

 

 

Looks like a 1928 LaSalle........probably made as a test platform for one of the Fisher Brothers.

[edinmass 12,670]

How strong is a Pierce Arrow with a factory cast aluminum body? Here is a car that rolled over and landed up side down. They drove it away.

Edited December 10, 2020 by edinmass (see edit history)

[1937hd45 3,264]

^^^^^^^^^^^ Ed, Please tell us about the wheels, I know that style was popular on English cars starting as far back as 1912 on AC's. Two pieces of stamped steel spokes welded up into a rim. Yes, this little delivery car is the grandfather of the AC/Cobra. Bob 

Edited December 10, 2020 by 1937hd45 (see edit history)

[Gary_Ash 1,023]

Ed, when I was in Fay Butler's shop in Wheelwright, MA a few years ago, he had a cast-body P-A sitting there.  Fay claimed he was going to finish the car, though I don't think there has been any progress for a long time.

[edinmass 12,670]

He has been working on it on and off for years......he is reasonably close now. it's a 1910 or so, 66 HP. Portions are origional factory body.....I think he has made new doors. The rear tub is all factory, as is the cowl.

[8E45E 1,270]

4 hours ago, edinmass said:

How strong is a Pierce Arrow with a factory cast aluminum body? Here is a car that rolled over and landed up side down. They drove it away.

I imagine it would withstand a hailstorm pretty good!!

 

Craig

[LCK81403 174]

This Pierce-Arrow has interesting wheels.  The six-spoke wheels appear to be the same as on the two cars in the second photos.  The second photo was posted on this thread months ago; I don't remember if the cars were type identified.  The six-spoke wheels in the photos appear to be very similar to an eight-spoke version made by Van Wheels, of Oneida, New York.  Are those six-spoke wheels made by Van Wheels also?

[58L-Y8 1,873]

You might be thinking of these Smith Wheels, on a '20's Packard Six club sedan.

[LCK81403 174]

Wayne, regarding your photo of the possible Abbott-Detroit.  The second photo attached was identified as a 1920 Abbott-Detroit, and it was posted on this thread perhaps several pages past.

[edinmass 12,670]

I’m stressed out.......so I am posting this historic photo, to relieve some stress...........there may be a car in the photo. I’m not sure........some things never go out of style.........chassis is a bit more modern than we usually see........

[wayne sheldon 1,314]

So much good stuff!

LCK81403, I had forgotten that one? So many wonderful photos in this thread. A lot of similarities there. 

 

A good number of British and European cars of the 1910s and 1920s had cast or pressed metal spoke wheels. In the world history of wheels, the idea was more attractive there at the time than it was in America because Europe and England had limited resources of wood that was both hard enough and resilient enough to be well suited for wheel spoke use. Steel wire spoke and steel disc wheels were much more common over there than they were over here in those decades, even on the cheaper cars. North America had many thousands of acres of indigenous Hickory which was very well suited for wheel use. It is interesting to note (at least to me?) that many of Briton's and European's finest and most expensive automobiles used wooden spoke wheels in those years. Many people believed that the wooden wheels with their innate flexibility gave a better ride on the rough (albeit better then there than here) roads of the day. So on cars where cost was not an object, proper woods were often either acquired from limited local supplies, or imported.

 

Ed M, Thank you for the comment on the LaSalle.

The strength of the Pierce Arrow cast aluminum body is incredible. A good friend almost twenty years ago was transporting an about 1918 Pierce Arrow inside a three axle enclosed trailer when the unthinkable happened. Something triggered one tire to blow out, which was followed by the other two axles on that side also blowing out! The trailer flipped at speed onto its side. My work on the road had me in his neighborhood just a few days later so I stopped by his shop. The Pierce Arrow was a good survivor preservation car with original paint and etc. It helped that the car was tied down inside the trailer very well. But I was still amazed to see that other than a broken windshield frame, and some minor damage to the top sockets, the car appeared undamaged.

Saddened to hear you are stressed out. Always hoping it is nothing too serious.

[edinmass 12,670]

1937hd45.......the wheels we see occasionally on Pierce Arrow cars from 1916-1920. Best guess, the owners probably had or were involved in trucks or trucking..........so they installed cast wheels. They came back into fashion in 1931 & 1932...........photo to follow. This is one of five 1931 Series 42 Dual Cowl Pierce’s known. One of the five has been in my family for 60 years.........these are Budd stainless steel wheels.

[1937hd45 3,264]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Great looking car, like that top a lot. Bob 

[nzcarnerd 1,174]

2 hours ago, wayne sheldon said:

So much good stuff!

LCK81403, I had forgotten that one? So many wonderful photos in this thread. A lot of similarities there. 

 

A good number of British and European cars of the 1910s and 1920s had cast or pressed metal spoke wheels. In the world history of wheels, the idea was more attractive there at the time than it was in America because Europe and England had limited resources of wood that was both hard enough and resilient enough to be well suited for wheel spoke use. Steel wire spoke and steel disc wheels were much more common over there than they were over here in those decades, even on the cheaper cars. North America had many thousands of acres of indigenous Hickory which was very well suited for wheel use. It is interesting to note (at least to me?) that many of Briton's and European's finest and most expensive automobiles used wooden spoke wheels in those years. Many people believed that the wooden wheels with their innate flexibility gave a better ride on the rough (albeit better then there than here) roads of the day. So on cars where cost was not an object, proper woods were often either acquired from limited local supplies, or imported.

 

Ed M, Thank you for the comment on the LaSalle.

The strength of the Pierce Arrow cast aluminum body is incredible. A good friend almost twenty years ago was transporting an about 1918 Pierce Arrow inside a three axle enclosed trailer when the unthinkable happened. Something triggered one tire to blow out, which was followed by the other two axles on that side also blowing out! The trailer flipped at speed onto its side. My work on the road had me in his neighborhood just a few days later so I stopped by his shop. The Pierce Arrow was a good survivor preservation car with original paint and etc. It helped that the car was tied down inside the trailer very well. But I was still amazed to see that other than a broken windshield frame, and some minor damage to the top sockets, the car appeared undamaged.

Saddened to hear you are stressed out. Always hoping it is nothing too serious.

 

Those pressed steel wheels are generally referred to as Sankeys, after one of the makes of them. I guess in much the same way as vacuum cleaners are often referred to as Hoovers - as in "I am doing the Hoovering" etc.

 

[nzcarnerd 1,174]

9 hours ago, 1937hd45 said:

^^^^^^^^^^^ Ed, Please tell us about the wheels, I know that style was popular on English cars starting as far back as 1912 on AC's. Two pieces of stamped steel spokes welded up into a rim. Yes, this little delivery car is the grandfather of the AC/Cobra. Bob 

 

AC is derived from the original make name Auto Carrier.

[Tph479 107]

Third series Packard Twin Six roadster with those aftermarket type wheels. This roadster model first made an appearance in the 1920 model year and was the first production body Packard with the 2 seat rumble seat. 424 cubic inch 12 cylinder engine, 3 speed transmission, 136 inch wheel base impractical rocket ship for the era.

[Tph479 107]

[nzcarnerd 1,174]

13 hours ago, wayne sheldon said:

So much good stuff!

LCK81403, I had forgotten that one? So many wonderful photos in this thread. A lot of similarities there. 

 

A good number of British and European cars of the 1910s and 1920s had cast or pressed metal spoke wheels. In the world history of wheels, the idea was more attractive there at the time than it was in America because Europe and England had limited resources of wood that was both hard enough and resilient enough to be well suited for wheel spoke use. Steel wire spoke and steel disc wheels were much more common over there than they were over here in those decades, even on the cheaper cars. North America had many thousands of acres of indigenous Hickory which was very well suited for wheel use. It is interesting to note (at least to me?) that many of Briton's and European's finest and most expensive automobiles used wooden spoke wheels in those years. Many people believed that the wooden wheels with their innate flexibility gave a better ride on the rough (albeit better then there than here) roads of the day. So on cars where cost was not an object, proper woods were often either acquired from limited local supplies, or imported.

 

Ed M, Thank you for the comment on the LaSalle.

The strength of the Pierce Arrow cast aluminum body is incredible. A good friend almost twenty years ago was transporting an about 1918 Pierce Arrow inside a three axle enclosed trailer when the unthinkable happened. Something triggered one tire to blow out, which was followed by the other two axles on that side also blowing out! The trailer flipped at speed onto its side. My work on the road had me in his neighborhood just a few days later so I stopped by his shop. The Pierce Arrow was a good survivor preservation car with original paint and etc. It helped that the car was tied down inside the trailer very well. But I was still amazed to see that other than a broken windshield frame, and some minor damage to the top sockets, the car appeared undamaged.

Saddened to hear you are stressed out. Always hoping it is nothing too serious.

 

This 1913 Nazzaro is on Sankey type wheels with 895 x 135 beaded edge tyres. By coincidence the wheels from this car were in at a local tyre shop last week having new  - new as in the owner had had them for a few years - tyres fitted.   

[LCK81403 174]

Wow !  -- this is a great looking Packard roadster, and the wheels are simply terrific.  Sitting here speculating how wheels like that would look on my '29 Model-A Ford.  Anyone know where solid spoke wheels can be purchased?  The wire wheels on my '29 are so ordinary.

 

[Bob Barrett 40]

These are a couple of publicity photos for an electric utility company. The utility is Rockland Light and Power Co. The photos were taken in Rockland County, NY, just north of New York City. Today, following a couple of corporate mergers over many decades, this company is part of ConEd; the New York metropolitan area utility giant.

The first photo shows a portion of the company’s service fleet circa 1933. The sign on the truck which has become faded over the years reads, “AT YOUR SERVICE NIGHT AND DAY   MEMBER OF THE N.R.A.”. ( National Recovery Administration) The signs on the cars are (L to R)  R, L, &, P, CO.

The second photo is a later photo of one of the company’s service trucks, obviously taken during the holiday season, promoting the use of Christmas lights. Now seemed like the perfect season to post the second one. My Christmas card to the forum!

Bob,

Edited December 11, 2020 by Bob Barrett (see edit history)

[twin6 1,077]

Fulton trucks, Farmingdale, NY.

[Walt G 3,371]

Lots of people on long island will be very very enthused to see this Fulton truck photo here on long island! WOW. There is a restored Fulton truck in the Cradle of Aviation Museum in Garden City, NY on display that was donated by my friend Al Velocci who had it restored. Way cool !!!!!! Most interesting to read that the trucks in the photo were on their way to India! Very important photo for us to see.