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Period images to relieve some of the stress


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22 hours ago, edinmass said:


Can anyone ID the Packard?

B7843CDD-27B5-489B-9F4F-815E8E8F6E8A.png

 

That is Ralph Stein. The car was a Packard roadster he bought from ??? (I've forgotten the name) but he worked for Marcellus Hartley Dodge, the grandson of Marcellus Hartley, a principal of Schuyler, Hartley & Graham - the military goods dealer. Hartley's business was extremely successful...in 1888 he bought the Remington Arms Company and was also the owner of Union Metallic Cartridge. He also founded an electric company that he sold to George Westinghouse. The grandson merged the two companies in 1912 resulting in Remington/UMC.

 

That picture, and a description of the car can be found in Stein's "Treasury of the Automobile. " I also saw a reference to the gentleman he purchased it from on the Old Motor web site in a description of a car built for the Dodges. I think Stein traded it for an Alfa Romeo.

 

Found it...the original owner was McClure Hally.

 

Oh...and the device on the radiator cap is a tachometer...

Edited by JV Puleo (see edit history)
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2 hours ago, Walt G said:

I wonder if they are the exact same cars but decades later?

Walt

 

No.  The right most car in the 1950s photo is a 36/37 Cab A,  the Red car, formerly owned for years by Warren Hoar is a 500k.

 

The left car is a 540K Cab B,  while the new photo shows a 500K Cab B.

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40 minutes ago, edinmass said:

One of the best tow rigs I have seen from the era........

EBF841EB-0DE3-4EFD-B6E7-8D5F3B587CE9.png

Thanks for this one Ed. The tow vehicle looks to be made from a 1923 Buick open 7 passenger model 49 on the long 124"WB. The towed car a 1924 Model 35 4 cylinder touring. Interesting dolly arrangement.  

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7 minutes ago, dibarlaw said:

Thanks for this one Ed. The tow vehicle looks to be made from a 1923 Buick open 7 passenger model 49 on the long 124"WB. The towed car a 1924 Model 35 4 cylinder touring. Interesting dolly arrangement.  

My father had a dolly similar to this one. The iron wheels made a real lot of noise, some may have had hard rubber

002.JPG

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7 hours ago, JV Puleo said:

 

That is Ralph Stein. The car was a Packard roadster he bought from ??? (I've forgotten the name) but he worked for Marcellus Hartley Dodge, the grandson of Marcellus Hartley, a principal of Schuyler, Hartley & Graham.

 

That picture, and a description of the car can be found in Stein's "Treasury of the Automobile. " I also saw a reference to the gentleman he purchased it from on the Old Motor web site in a description of a car built for the Dodges. I think Stein traded it for an Alfa Romeo.

 

Found it...the original owner was McClure Hally.

 

Oh...and the device on the radiator cap is a tachometer...

 

Image1-81_edited-1-1.jpg

Mr. Hally of Hally's Comet fame, Ralph Stein had a great story of the build of this car at Zumback's in NYC. 1923 INDY 500 Mercedes team car fitted with a 1930's MILLER/OFFY for the Vanderbilt Cup race on Long Island. The car is beautifully restored today. There is a video of it driving onto a show field. Bob 

Edited by 1937hd45 (see edit history)
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On 11/27/2020 at 11:07 AM, JV Puleo said:

 

That is Ralph Stein. The car was a Packard roadster he bought from ??? (I've forgotten the name) but he worked for Marcellus Hartley Dodge, the grandson of Marcellus Hartley, a principal of Schuyler, Hartley & Graham - the military goods dealer. Hartley's business was extremely successful...in 1888 he bought the Remington Arms Company and was also the owner of Union Metallic Cartridge. He also founded an electric company that he sold to George Westinghouse. The grandson merged the two companies in 1912 resulting in Remington/UMC.

 

That picture, and a description of the car can be found in Stein's "Treasury of the Automobile. " I also saw a reference to the gentleman he purchased it from on the Old Motor web site in a description of a car built for the Dodges. I think Stein traded it for an Alfa Romeo.

 

Found it...the original owner was McClure Hally.

 

Oh...and the device on the radiator cap is a tachometer...

That gorgeous green 734 speedster that Gooding sold last year was originally owned by Halley and later Stein. Could this be the same car with later radiator and lamps? It says Stein acquired it around 1942 from Leo Pavelle.

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2 hours ago, md murray said:

That gorgeous green 734 speedster that Gooding sold last year was originally owned by Halley and later Stein. Could this be the same car with later radiator and lamps? It says Stein acquired it around 1942 from Leo Pavelle.

 

It is and the Google search turned up a nice history of Mr. Halley and his cars. This car won its class at Pebble Beach. Bob 

1930_Packard_734_Speedster_Runabout_0007.jpg

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Well, this isn't a Indian motorcycle but is a 1936 Arrowhead made in California. the late Everett Miller gave me a brochure on the Arrowhead back in the 1970s when we would share stuff we had in our collections. I think he may have been responsible for the design/styling .  More odd stuff from my archives, if you keep looking at this thread and have insomnia then you have found a cure............😌

Arrowhead1936 1001.jpg

Arrowhead1936 2.jpg

Edited by Walt G
clarification (see edit history)
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13 hours ago, 1937hd45 said:

https://content.invisioncic.com/r277599/monthly_2020_11/4DC8303F-BF91-410F-880E-B584CA05D050.png.9d954b93db82afcc98daed4834b3fc9a.png

 

Just how unusual are those Packard wheels, I can't remember ever seeing them. Bob 

John Mereness and few other members were just discussing them in another thread a few months back- they were a one year only wheel I believe they said. They have a great look, there was a runabout wearing them @ Hershey 2019. 

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15 hours ago, Walt G said:

Interesting to see on the Peerless that the tires do not match all around. Rear tires have heavier tread then the front tires.

The wheels in Ed's great photo even have different numbers of spokes. I wonder what the little dust-mop/flag thing coming out of the radiator is? Probably a 1916-20 Peerless Model 56 with the 80 HP 332 Cu. In. engine, four-barrel carburetor, and dual exhaust.

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The design was offered on 1925 Buicks as enclosed models. Touring, roadsters in both Standard and Master series. On this photo there are no visible top irons or sockets. More like a rail for the wood top bows. The side windows are of glass instead of regular flexible side curtains. Notice the sliding front passenger window. A close up view shows more of 1924 style rear top treatment. Not like similar REX accessory "California tops". I have also seen this style on a few 1926 Buicks.507AB4B4-4A4B-4319-AD93-ADA289429012.png.6370202f2b17946a53f2cad2e34a6e64.png.c03950f75cde6530e237eb3b91ff63c1.png

DSCF2641.thumb.JPG.96124fbf99560c6363b37a280a099860.JPG    1926-45A May have been a 1925 carryover.DSCF2644.thumb.JPG.d2b5954ccb23c73f92f82b334094f519.JPG

 

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Period photo of 1925 Buick with glass curtains installed. Another accessory are the Tuarc disk wheels.

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I have not found it unusual for the wood spoke wheels of that era to have a different number of spokes between the rear and front wheels. the wheels stay on the car and the tires got changed with the detachable rim. Rear wheels usually having heavier spokes then the front wheels.

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11 minutes ago, jeff_a said:

The wheels in Ed's great photo even have different numbers of spokes. I wonder what the little dust-mop/flag thing coming out of the radiator is? Probably a 1916-20 Peerless Model 56 with the 80 HP 332 Cu. In. engine, four-barrel carburetor, and dual exhaust.

It looks like a flag, possibly the French flag.  There is another cape-topped phaeton to the left.  An early concours?  Any chance this is also a Leon Rubay body too?

'16-20 Peerless V8 Model 56 cape touring.png

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As Walt noted about the wood spoke wheels, it was not uncommon to have 12-spoke wheels on the rear and 10-spoke wheels on the front.  I have not found any historical design criteria for having 12-spoke wheels at the rear of a car.  It was not universally done.  Many period photos of cars show 10-spoke wheels front and back, but there are enough photos showing 10 front and 12 rear.  Presumably it was up to the car manufacturer how they designed and produced their machines.  I am guessing here, but perhaps the car designer/producer estimated that three passengers in the rear compartment warranted a more heavily built wood spoke wheel.  However, since the engine compartment weight is carried mostly by the front 10-spoke wheels, I hardly think that the weight of three average adults in the rear seat would greatly exceed 10-spoke wheels.

 

The unidentified flappy object near the radiator cap on the Peerless possibly is a small flag and a pennant flappy in the breeze.  The possible pennant strongly resembles things I saw in Austria Germany's Bavaria.  The two vertical stripes of color may represent the Austrian colors, if it is red and white.  However it could be Bavarian and therefore blue and white.

 

Regarding the wheel subject.  The front wheels on my former 1920 Buick had 12 spokes front and rear, however the rear spokes were seriously strong when compared with the front spokes.  I have looked at a lot of Buick wheels trying to understand the how and why for the spoke configuration on a K-45 touring car.  After wading through a lot of Buick photos, a 1926 Buick Master Six Brougham Sedan surfaced, and thereby a similar set of 12-spoke wheels.  The pictured '26 Buick and my '20 Buick touring are the only Buicks I have come across with wheels like this.  The "why" of the question is still not answered.

 

Peerless.png

19040343 L-F 32x6.JPG

19040348 R-R 32x6.JPG

26 Buick Master Six Brougham Sedan 01-03.jpg

26 Buick Master Six Brougham Sedan 02-03.jpg

26 Buick Master Six Brougham Sedan 03-03.jpg

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32 minutes ago, keiser31 said:

The "why" question about 12 spokes on the rear could have been for more torque than 10 spokes.

 

I have to believe this is the case. Remember, they didn't have any computers or finite element analysis to know how strong to make things, they were all flying on instinct when building these cars. The attitude was that if there was a concern, make it bigger and stronger so it wouldn't break. Would a 6-cylinder Buick have enough torque to break spokes? Unlikely. Were they able to conceive of a situation in which it might? Sure. Therefore, bigger spokes. QED.

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Yes, more torque ( thanks Keiser) , plus the weight of the rear seat passengers and the loaded trunk and /or rear spare(s) all factor into the equation that the engineers at the factory took into consideration. Keep in mind the conditions of most of the roads in that era - they were built for travel by wagons that were horse drawn, not nicely paved with banked curves etc.  The paved and banked roads did exist and the privately owned  Long Island Motor Parkway was one of the best examples of a modern "highway" as we now know it. It was a toll road that ran right down the middle of long island . It opened in 1907!  More historical information  on that go to Vanderbiltcupraces.com .

Walt

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The "why" question about 12 spokes on the rear could have been for more torque than 10 spokes.

 

That may well be true, keiser31.  My '20 Buick with the monster spokes at the rear end was apparently used as a tractor or towing vehicle in the late stage of its life.  The left-rear axle housing had been broken and welded at least two times, and there were two home-made "brackets" bolted to the rear axle that provided attachment for something.  One of the brackets was bent and partially split.  When I opened the rear end I found a number of gear teeth were chipped and broken.  For all the strain / torque forced on this Buick somehow the wood wheel spokes survived.

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