John_Mereness Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Mereness Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Mereness Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Mereness Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casper Friederich Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 (edited) Late 20s Sunbeam Twin cam 3-Litre Engine with four-door saloon body Edited July 1, 2020 by Casper Friederich (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Mereness Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Mereness Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 1 minute ago, Casper Friederich said: Late 20s Sunbeam Twin cam 3-Litre Engine and four-door saloon body Magnificent Automobile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Mereness Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 Packard 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Mereness Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casper Friederich Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 (edited) W.O. Bentley engineered 4 1/2-Litre six-cylinder Lagondas, 1936 and 1939 Edited July 1, 2020 by Casper Friederich (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert G. Smits Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 (edited) 22 hours ago, wayne sheldon said: 23 hours ago, Robert G. Smits said: I believe the car in the middle with the hard rubber tires is a 1909/'10 Fuller! Thanks Wayne, what about the other two? Edited July 1, 2020 by Robert G. Smits duplication (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
58L-Y8 Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 Bringing the Lagondas out of the fog... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walt G Posted July 1, 2020 Author Share Posted July 1, 2020 4 hours ago, John_Mereness said: The car is a model 48 Locomobile, sold new by Hare Motor Company of NY, NY . Photo was taken in Westchester County. Same car is pictured along with more then a dozen others in a showroom album kept at the dealership which was located just a few blocks west of Central Park South in Manhattan. I have that showroom album in my archives . I have a story on Emlen S. Hare and his car activities ( he started with Packard of NY) and career in the works. Walt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzcarnerd Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 4 hours ago, John_Mereness said: The three 'P's plus? From left a mystery car from an earlier date than the others (which I think all date from circa 1912-14), then a Peerless, a big Renault, a Pierce-Arrow(a 48?), a Packard 3-48(?), and ? - a Minerva maybe? Combined value when new of a couple of streets full of small houses. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayne sheldon Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 1 hour ago, Robert G. Smits said: Thanks Wayne, what about the other two? The detail and clarity in the photo is lacking enough that positive identification may not be possible. However, I am fairly sure the car behind the Fuller is an about 1904 Cadillac, model B if I recall correctly. I am a little unsure because while the hood and what I can see of the front axle peeking through the wheel look correct for the Cadillac, the wheelbase appears a bit longer than a few cars I have seen. The car in front will be the toughest one. The basic style, shape of radiator and fenders was all quite common in the 1908 to 1910 years. I would guess it is most likely a Buick, likely a four cylinder. That model of Fuller is unusual enough that they are easily spotted. I am not certain about it though because the 1910 "Jackson" Fuller model had fourteen spokes in the wheels whereas this car has only twelve. The Fuller had an interesting and confusing history. There were two unrelated companies that built cars under the Fuller name. The Jackson Michigan cars were an off-shoot of the Jackson automobile (a complicated yet interesting relationship!). The other company was in Nebraska! Both companies built semi-high-wheel models similar to this car. History books, automotive guides, and other resources are often wrong. The Kimes and Clark catalog of cars (18** to 1942) even has the photographs identified incorrectly. I "think" this car may actually be the Nebraska Fuller, however it could be one of the early "Jackson" Fullers, although mostly looking correct, the 1910 "Jackson" Fuller had a few details (like the spoke count and steering wheel) different. Fenders however look correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayne sheldon Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 1 hour ago, nzcarnerd said: The three 'P's plus? From left a mystery car from an earlier date than the others (which I think all date from circa 1912-14), then a Peerless, a big Renault, a Pierce-Arrow(a 48?), a Packard 3-48(?), and ? - a Minerva maybe? Combined value when new of a couple of streets full of small houses. I would question the "Renault" identification? Franklin also built a large model with that type hood (bonnet). The cowl lamps (barely visible) and apparent lack of radiator behind the bonnet make me suspect that it may be the big Franklin which was air-cooled and did not have a radiator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
58L-Y8 Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 28 minutes ago, wayne sheldon said: The detail and clarity in the photo is lacking enough that positive identification may not be possible. However, I am fairly sure the car behind the Fuller is an about 1904 Cadillac, model B if I recall correctly. I am a little unsure because while the hood and what I can see of the front axle peeking through the wheel look correct for the Cadillac, the wheelbase appears a bit longer than a few cars I have seen. The car in front will be the toughest one. The basic style, shape of radiator and fenders was all quite common in the 1908 to 1910 years. I would guess it is most likely a Buick, likely a four cylinder. That model of Fuller is unusual enough that they are easily spotted. I am not certain about it though because the 1910 "Jackson" Fuller model had fourteen spokes in the wheels whereas this car has only twelve. The Fuller had an interesting and confusing history. There were two unrelated companies that built cars under the Fuller name. The Jackson Michigan cars were an off-shoot of the Jackson automobile (a complicated yet interesting relationship!). The other company was in Nebraska! Both companies built semi-high-wheel models similar to this car. History books, automotive guides, and other resources are often wrong. The Kimes and Clark catalog of cars (18** to 1942) even has the photographs identified incorrectly. I "think" this car may actually be the Nebraska Fuller, however it could be one of the early "Jackson" Fullers, although mostly looking correct, the 1910 "Jackson" Fuller had a few details (like the spoke count and steering wheel) different. Fenders however look correct. Does this help? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Mereness Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 (edited) 44 minutes ago, wayne sheldon said: I would question the "Renault" identification? Franklin also built a large model with that type hood (bonnet). The cowl lamps (barely visible) and apparent lack of radiator behind the bonnet make me suspect that it may be the big Franklin which was air-cooled and did not have a radiator. I would lean toward Franklin too (the reason why is a lot of Renault's have a radiator between the hood and the cowl) - plus, strikes me as full elliptical springs and strikes me as American lighting. Edited July 1, 2020 by John_Mereness (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayne sheldon Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 (edited) 39 minutes ago, 58L-Y8 said: Does this help? It certainly makes the picture look better! However in many cases, detail once lost, whether due to the limitations of the original camera and/or film, or the ravages of time upon the surviving image, is not easily recoverable. Sometimes, adjusting contrast and brightness can bring out some things. Often not much can be gained short of either artistic restoration or a major reconstruction computer program. Both of which largely use guesswork in reconstructing lost details. But Thank You regardless! It does look better. Edited July 1, 2020 by wayne sheldon (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzcarnerd Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 2 hours ago, wayne sheldon said: I would question the "Renault" identification? Franklin also built a large model with that type hood (bonnet). The cowl lamps (barely visible) and apparent lack of radiator behind the bonnet make me suspect that it may be the big Franklin which was air-cooled and did not have a radiator. You may be right. I hadn't looked for a radiator, I was just thinking expensive cars. My copy of Floyd Clymer's 1914 cars shows a similar looking car, although it has electric cowl lamps. The wheelbase was 120" and the cost $2300 for the touring car. Maybe the car here is 1913 It doesn't help that driver is obscuring the front of the hood. Plenty to choose from here - https://www.franklincar.org/tech/YOMImages/#1913 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casper Friederich Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 (edited) The Lagonda Rapier with a 1,1 Litre twin-cam four. No factory bodies were offered, instead coachbuilt albeith in small series. After Lagonda Company reorganized in 1935 the rights to this smaller model was sold to Rapier Motors Ltd who continued production up to WWII Edited July 2, 2020 by Casper Friederich (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twin6 Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twin6 Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 "Does this hat make me look French?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casper Friederich Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 (edited) Joseph Larson from Finland started Suomi Auto school in New York City in the 1910s. After his native country gained independence he settled in Helsinki and started a driving school here. I believe he took with him a shovel nosed Franklin when returning to his old homeland. At least there was a similar open Franklin in traffic in the Finnish Capital at least up to the Summer of 1925. Edited July 2, 2020 by Casper Friederich (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 25 minutes ago, twin6 said: I'll take the Chrysler roadster around the corner, please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casper Friederich Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 (edited) 1922 Austro-Daimler Luxuswagen in Finland. Well, there is preserved over here a late 20s bus on International chassis and with Ford Model A Engine and the radiator beeing a similar Austro-Daimler Spitzkühler... Edited July 2, 2020 by Casper Friederich (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 On 6/28/2020 at 7:36 PM, TG57Roadmaster said: 1936 Delahaye 135 Cabriolet by Henri Chapron, from the French magazine Miroir du Monde. TG We should count up the number of cars with triple wipers. The long chassis 320 Cab A Mercedes is another that comes to mind. The common denominator with this car is the low raked windshield. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 On 7/1/2020 at 11:40 AM, John_Mereness said: Here is the full article on the Gardner. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 On 7/1/2020 at 11:14 AM, John_Mereness said: FWD Miller I've never seen the top picture before!!! Where did you find that? I think the bottom one is the one in circulation? Or maybe I haven't see that one before either. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twin6 Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casper Friederich Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 (edited) A couple of winds splitters by Alexis Kellner at the 1911 Berlin Automobile Show. Horch and Windhoff, in the latter case the driver's wheel is not placed on the left nor right side but in the middle! Edited July 3, 2020 by Casper Friederich (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 (edited) Since I mentioned the Mercedes 320 I figured I should find some pictures. The V windshield car is a 320N or short wheelbase Combination Coupe, which is basically a Cab A with a removable hardtop and not the double top on the convertible roof. The triple wiper car is the long wheelbase version of the Cab A. I could not find a period picture of one so I didn't post any. Will try to find one. The bottom picture is the 320 version of Mercedes famous "Special Roadster". Edited July 3, 2020 by alsancle (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Mereness Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 21 hours ago, keiser31 said: I'll take the Chrysler roadster around the corner, please. I was just about to say the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Mereness Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 (edited) 20 hours ago, alsancle said: I've never seen the top picture before!!! Where did you find that? I think the bottom one is the one in circulation? Or maybe I haven't see that one before either. I think my searches were 1930 FWD, 1931 FWD, and .... Update: Found it: https://www.supercars.net/forum/threads/strange-rare-car-profiles-identifies-threat.36491/page-10 Sidenote: Miller built 2 passenger cars - I believe one was sold and the other taken in almost finished (yet unfinished) as repayment of a ridiculously expensive debt. I do not recall if the same fellow owned both or ..., but as to the unfinished one the fellow had strong ties to EL. Cord (aka why the project most likely occurred to begin with - I played connect the dots in discussion about a year ago via the fellow's Board of Director memberships - both cars are currently being manufactured using original factory patterns/bucks/molds, drawings, and ....). Edited July 3, 2020 by John_Mereness (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
30DodgePanel Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Mereness Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 (edited) http://blog.tribunadonorte.com.br/autosemotores/2016/02/06/miller-burden-roadster-o-mais-exclusivo-carro-do-mundo-por-marco-antonio-oliveira/ This is an interesting photo - I assume a Miller V-16 installed in a Cord (I also assume the sedan - which I believe was a Club Sedan/Brougham) - some parts of this automobile survive. Edited July 3, 2020 by John_Mereness (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
30DodgePanel Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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Casper Friederich Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 (edited) Also present at the 1911 Berlin Automobile Show was this Kühlstein bodied Luc 16/40 with British Daimler engine. This landaudette had the bigger engine of the two sleeve valve models that was put together by Loeb & Co, the largest Automobile repair shop in Berlin and probably also in the whole Imperial Germany. It had an interesting rear suspension arrangement with auxilary leaf and coil springs. Edited July 3, 2020 by Casper Friederich (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
30DodgePanel Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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