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Taggart Memorial Riverside Park, Indianapolis - LanciaMystery Solved: As Found Classic Number 13

 

Mystery Solved: As Found Classic Number 13

 

Same car (with a Allard in background)

Mystery Solved: As Found Classic Number 13

 

“This Astura is the 41-3222, a cabriolet gran lusso by Pininfarina introduced to the 1939 Turin and Sanremo elegance concourses by Carlo Bocca, Lancia dealer in Vercelli. He sold it to a textile entrepreneur, Bozzalla, who sold it to Adolfo Fila. After the WWII it was in the free territory of Trieste, where an US Army officer found it, bought it and shipped to the USA. Later the car was in the ownership of the Prior family (in the US) for decades, before a Swiss collector bought in 1987. He sold it to Nino Balestra (president of the Cisitalia register) in 1995. Balestra restored the car and he is still the owner today.
Fortunately all the 4 gran lusso cabriolets survived. This one is unique with the
trafficator stick behind the door. You can see the others at the Louwman Museum in the Netherlands, another in yellow/black was in the Laganland Veterans Bildmuseum (Sweden) and today is in private hands. The last (41-3246) belonged to the Reichspropagandaleiter Goebbels, who bought it at the 1939 Berlin motor show, now in a US collection since
2013.”

 

Edited by John_Mereness (see edit history)
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38 minutes ago, John_Mereness said:

This is a cool photo !

 

We covered this car back about 100 pages ago.   Vanden Plas Caddy V16.  Ed's picture (the first one) is probably post war.    The light colored body shot is when it was new.   Delivered to India.

 

Bahawalpur%20Cadillac%20V-16%20BWP-133%20Side%20L%20Profile%20from%20HH%20Feb%207%202015%20.jpg

drm3032

Cars of HH Nawab Sadiq M Abbasi V of Bahawalpur, Pakistan - Page 4 ...

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3 minutes ago, alsancle said:

 

We covered this car back about 100 pages ago.   Vanden Plas Caddy V16.  Ed's picture (the first one) is probably post war.    The light colored body shot is when it was new.   Delivered to India.

 

Bahawalpur%20Cadillac%20V-16%20BWP-133%20Side%20L%20Profile%20from%20HH%20Feb%207%202015%20.jpg

drm3032

Cars of HH Nawab Sadiq M Abbasi V of Bahawalpur, Pakistan - Page 4 ...

 

  I spotted these photos on Monday or so - looks like it has been restored

COACHBUILD.com • View topic - Vanden Plas Cadillac V-16 # 702298 ...

 

COACHBUILD.com • View topic - Vanden Plas Cadillac V-16 # 702298 ...

 

 

 

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37 minutes ago, John_Mereness said:

 

  I spotted these photos on Monday or so - looks like it has been restored

COACHBUILD.com • View topic - Vanden Plas Cadillac V-16 # 702298 ...

 

COACHBUILD.com • View topic - Vanden Plas Cadillac V-16 # 702298 ...

 

 

 

 

 

Closer to original colors but I prefer the dark green.

 

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2 hours ago, alsancle said:

 

 

Closer to original colors but I prefer the dark green.

 

 

 

Gentlemen, most cars restored in Pakistan, India, and similar parts of the world are usually much worse off than you can imagine. Labor is cheap, parts and supplies are expensive. They tend to use anything they can find to make things work........think like Russian made tractors from the 50's and things similar. Not all of them are that bad, but 90 percent are..........

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Posted (edited)

OK, Here ie more Odd ball stuff from my archives. As I have mentioned here on the forums ( someplace, sometime) I have a run of the periodical OMNIA. It was a French auto magazine that made its debut in 1920 and ran until 1936 - It was a monthly, paper it was printed on is coated stock so the photographs in the magazine are superb and the screen they used to turn the photographs into a printable medium for the magazine was very fine , so detail really shows up. Towards the end of each year OMNIA had an annual show issue which covered assorted motor shows as well as concours events held the end of the season. Here are two examples of what was in one page of one issue . there were 12 issues per year, that's one a month, I am perhaps missing 6 issues total. Both American and European cars are shown in the issues, of course European cars get more press coverage due to their availability. I can never ever scan and feature here all the interesting images from all the issues I have. Both Austin Clark and Peter Helck knew about this magazine and pre war into the early 1950s Peter would try to find issues and remove pages that showed cars he enjoyed the styling of . Austin tried to get a full run of the magazine . I first heard of it when visiting England and staying with a friend who was a motor book dealer - Peter Moore of West Sussex. Peter acted as my agent and pretty much built a collection of all the issues one at a time for me over a span of about 25 years.

 

On view here:  a Hispano-Suiza model J12 ( 12 cylinder) at a Concours de Elegance in Boulogne. ( no mention of the body builder - for the  car or the crumpet posed on the top of the front seat!)

HispanoSuiza  J12 1935001.jpg

Edited by Walt G
typo (see edit history)
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7 hours ago, John_Mereness said:

Mark Dauty's Grandfather Arthur Benkers and Spot in a 1926 Ford.Image may contain: outdoor

 

 

I seem to be running behind a lot lately, however, in spite of being merely a model T, thought this photo needed some commentary.

 

Not likely a 1926, Although it arguably could have been sold as such.

It appears to be a 1925 model, and Canadian built. What may have thrown the year off, is that US built open bodied Ts did not have a door by the driver's seat before '26. And this car does appear to have a driver's door. Canadian built Ts were manufactured for world markets, and different parts of the world drove on different sides of the road. So the chassis and bodies were manufactured so the cars could be assembled as either right-hand driven, or left-hand driven. Therefore, nearly all Canadian built touring cars had four doors. Careful examination of the windshield and posts shows that both the upper and lower sections of the windshield fold out, a Canadian feature. US built cars only had the upper section fold out for ventilation, although there were after-market replacements sold that had both sections folding out, but they were quite unusual. Also, notice the clamp/brackets for the top sockets when folded down. Again, after-market sellers offered these to US  markets, but they were standard on the Canadian built cars.

Black on black doesn't show much of the door hinges (front or rear) beyond the fact that they are there on the front door. US built Ts used offset hinges from early brass era through near the end of '24 model production. The offset hinge held the open door straight out from the slightly sloped body side. For the '25 model year, US Ford changed to an even hinge which caused the door to hang slightly down when open, but didn't really hurt anything, and saved a few pennies on manufacturing costs. Just when Canadian production made that hinge change I don't know. Often, Canadian production would get updated changes before US production would make the change. Sometimes Canadian production would follow later, and sometimes, much later. However, the hinge change was probably within a month or two of US changing them, one way or the other.

Looking again at the photo, it appears the right side front door may be open, and straight out (not certain?). That MAY indicate the hinges are the earlier style, likely making the car a 1924 model.

Enough on that subject for now.

Edited by wayne sheldon
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30 minutes ago, wayne sheldon said:

 

 

I seem to be running behind a lot lately, however, in spite of being merely a model T, thought this photo needed some commentary.

Looking again at the photo, it appears the right side front door may be open, and straight out (not certain?). That MAY indicate the hinges are the earlier style, likely making the car a 1924 model.

Enough on that subject for now.


Wayne, I own an all original and unmolested 1915 T touring. It’s lots of fun. My favorite part......the T collectors make the Duesenberg and Bugatti Collectors look like newbies. If you think the judges at Pebble are tough, buy a T and show it. The minutia on a Ford comes down to the week the car was built. Such is the fun of the hobby.

Edited by edinmass (see edit history)
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I mentioned I would post two photos an hour ago when I did the first ,but only one was allowed due to the size so here is the second one. The car is a 1935 Berliet with factory coachwork. " La Dauphine" it was noted in the caption in Omnia magazine where this came from. It also notes it was an 11cv, which was the French equivalent for horsepower but at the moment to translate it to the American description for same I can't think of at the moment. To me at least in profile like you see here the front fenders and shell/hood area look very much like a V8 Ford.

Berliet 1935001.jpg

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19 minutes ago, edinmass said:

Wayne, I own an all original and unmolested 1915 T touring. It’s lots of fun. My favorite part......the T collectors make the Duesenberg and Bugatti Collectors look like newbies. If you think the judges at Pebble are tough, buy a T and show it. The minutia on a Ford comes down to the week the car was built. Such is the fun of the hobby.

 

I know that you have one! Just makes me respect you even more.

And if one thinks model T people are bad that way, they should try showing a model A ('28 to '31)! At least most model T people have finally accepted the Henry did not make "clean and timely" changes. Changes were constantly being made, most not just at the model year time. Most changes in parts would have considerable "crossover" time when both earlier and later variations would be leaving the same factory. The change from '14 to '15 style open Ts took a full four months while both styles were being built. The center-door sedans and couplets were manufactured a full three months before the open '15 style cars were being built (other than a handful of prototypes!) at all.

There are a lot of people in the model T world that know those details far better than I. Yet, I can and often do spot so many errors or fakes myself.

If life had treated me much better, if I had more money than I could ever spend and a hundred fantastic cars? I would not be without at least a few model Ts. There was a time about thirty years ago, I had a couple non-Ford collector cars, but no running model T. I swore then, never again. If I can have only one car, it will be a T. If I could have a dozen nice cars? Probably at least three of them would be Ts.

Edited by wayne sheldon
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In many places the taxable HP was different from the actual and you would see two ratings like 10/25. First was taxable and a calculated value. Second was actual. Citroen 2CV and Renault 4CV were taxable HP.

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I may be wrong but the top photo looks to be down town Pittsburgh, PA. Old stone courthouse trolley tracks and overhead trolley wires. Around 1930.

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7 hours ago, edinmass said:

 

 

Gentlemen, most cars restored in Pakistan, India, and similar parts of the world are usually much worse off than you can imagine. Labor is cheap, parts and supplies are expensive. They tend to use anything they can find to make things work........think like Russian made tractors from the 50's and things similar. Not all of them are that bad, but 90 percent are..........

 

Also, in India, they think of darkly painted cars as being morbid. Used only for funeral coaches.

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5 minutes ago, West Peterson said:

 

Also, in India, they think of darkly painted cars as being morbid. Used only for funeral coaches.


 

That sure explains the literal circus wagons going down the road. Also the extra chrome added to the big CCCA classics delivered there new.............along with the purple, orange, and bright yellow paint jobs. A 1931 Pierce Series 41 seven passenger touring was delivered in “brilliant red” when new to some Raja...........when recently restored, they darkened the shade quite a bit......seems that they are watching Pebble and getting the idea that less is more.

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1 hour ago, dibarlaw said:

I may be wrong but the top photo looks to be down town Pittsburgh, PA. Old stone courthouse trolley tracks and overhead trolley wires. Around 1930.

 

You are exactly right. I found it while trying to locate any trucks in 1930 photos. 


The crazy part of this is - the dents on the back of that 1930 Dodge panel 3/4 ton truck look exactly like the markings I have on my 30 panel. Could it be the same exact vehicle ? I will be forever curious...

Edited by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)
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9 hours ago, Walt G said:

To me at least in profile like you see here the front fenders and shell/hood area look very much like a V8 Ford.

Berliet 1935001.jpg

The Swedish Wheels magazine that I subscribed to from a tender age promised in the early 1980s an in deepth comparasion between the stylistic similarities of the American Ford Model 40 and the French Citroën Traction Avant. That feature was never publized, interesting subject although.

Edited by Casper Friederich (see edit history)
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Here's something this thread has had since day 1......... Moxie!  Thanks to all who have contributed, not just the photos but the insights and comments offered by those with first hand knowledge and expertise.

moxie.jpg

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  • gwells changed the title to Period images to relieve some of the stress

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