Jump to content

65 number of ignition key positions


ca65riv
 Share

Recommended Posts

Possibly and odd and rather basic question, but here goes anyway.  Looking at the 65 service manual it indicates there are 4 ignition switch positions.  Section 10-32.  (1) ACCESSORY, (2) LOCK, (3) ON, (4) START.

 

My 65 appears to have 5 key positions.  An Accessory position to left (Amp lights up on the dash), followed by 2 additional positions, then ON then START.

 

Is the likely answer to this that the PO replaced the ignition switch with an aftermarket one that just has this additional position?  It's not clear to me the behavior of the two positions between Accessory and On.

 

Curious more than anything.


Thanks,

Tim

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, ca65riv said:

Possibly and odd and rather basic question, but here goes anyway.  Looking at the 65 service manual it indicates there are 4 ignition switch positions.  Section 10-32.  (1) ACCESSORY, (2) LOCK, (3) ON, (4) START.

 

My 65 appears to have 5 key positions.  An Accessory position to left (Amp lights up on the dash), followed by 2 additional positions, then ON then START.

 

Is the likely answer to this that the PO replaced the ignition switch with an aftermarket one that just has this additional position?  It's not clear to me the behavior of the two positions between Accessory and On.

 

Curious more than anything.


Thanks,

Tim

Hi Tim,

  Yes, it sounds like someone has substituted an earlier switch into your `65. Maybe posting a pic will help satisfy your curiosity?

Tom Mooney

Link to comment
Share on other sites

'64 Rivs & full size cars are the same. The diff. between '63 & '64 are the ignition switches, BUT '63 & '64 still have 4 positions. Lock & remove key car can't be started.  OFF & can remove key, BUT still start car. Then of course run & start.  The lock & off functions were so that you could bring the car to the dealer leave the ignition in the off position & the dealer could start & service the car & NOT gain access to the trunk or glove box as long as the glove box was locked they still couldn't access the trunk even if it had a remote trunk release in the glove box

Of course as we know today the trunk CAN be opened by other means by not destroying anything as long as the vacuum hoses will hold vacuum.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

35 minutes ago, psychostang said:

Of course , it doesn't match the door lock.

 

Any decent lock shop can fix that for you.  They can re-key the ignition tumbler to match your door lock (assuming you have the door key).  Otherwise, you'll need to bring a door lock (or glove box) cylinder.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

FWIW here’s a picture of my ignition although not sure it tells much of a story (picture may be sideways). The behavior is as others described, can remove key in OFF position.  Good news at least is my door locks share same key.  
 

Thanks all for the insight on this topic!

36FE67E0-53B6-4641-A438-C78722E12930.jpeg

Edited by ca65riv (see edit history)
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, ca65riv said:

FWIW here’s a picture of my ignition although not sure it tells much of a story (picture may be sideways). The behavior is as others described, can remove key in OFF position.  Good news at least is my door locks share same key.  
 

Thanks all for the insight on this topic!

36FE67E0-53B6-4641-A438-C78722E12930.jpeg

This definately looks like 65 ignition.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, psychostang said:

Well it looks like my 65 also has the earlier style ignition switch.   I also have acc/lock/off/on/start.  With one of those fancy decorative keys you find advertised.  Of course , it doesn't match the door lock.

I can match all your locks to one key or split them between two different keys as was original.

Tom Mooney

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, ca65riv said:

FWIW here’s a picture of my ignition although not sure it tells much of a story (picture may be sideways). The behavior is as others described, can remove key in OFF position.  Good news at least is my door locks share same key.  
 

Thanks all for the insight on this topic!

36FE67E0-53B6-4641-A438-C78722E12930.jpeg

That is a replacement lock cylinder,

Tom Mooney

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Come to think of it, on my '65 I can remove the key when the car is running.  Is this normal for a '65?

 

Everything else works as it should with regard to the ignition key.

 

What would cause the lock cylinder to allow the key to be removed while the car is running? 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, psychostang said:

I believe that 63 and 64 are 1 key, while 65 is 2 keys.  

 

My 63 is two keys. Straight edged for the ignition and glovebox (I think, memory may be faulty) and the round edged key is for the door locks and trunk. My 63 Pontiacs were the same as well.

 

Bill

Link to comment
Share on other sites

42 minutes ago, Riviera63 said:

My 63 is two keys. Straight edged for the ignition and glovebox (I think, memory may be faulty) and the round edged key is for the door locks and trunk. My 63 Pontiacs were the same as well.

Perhaps unoriginal.  My 63 and 64 have a single, hex-head key for everything.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

49 minutes ago, 65VerdeGS said:

Come to think of it, on my '65 I can remove the key when the car is running.  Is this normal for a '65?

 

Everything else works as it should with regard to the ignition key.

 

What would cause the lock cylinder to allow the key to be removed while the car is running? 

I can pull the keys when the car is running.  That is likely normal in those cars.  I have a later car that I used to be able to do that with, but cutting a new key removed that option.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

36 minutes ago, steelman said:

I thought doors and ignition were the same, trunk and glove box took the round key. Mostly I use the remote for the trunk and have never locked the glove box.

 

I just went out to the car and tried the keys and they were as I originally thought. Ignition and glovebox were the hex key. Trunk and doors were the round. Maybe someone changed it to that configuration. In the last 20+ years hough, I have owned 5 1963 Pontiacs and they all had 2 keys with that configuration.

 

Bill

 

 

Edited by Riviera63 (see edit history)
Link to comment
Share on other sites

47 minutes ago, steelman said:

I thought doors and ignition were the same, trunk and glove box took the round key. Mostly I use the remote for the trunk and have never locked the glove box.

I think Tom M. stated it earlier that a door/ignition key allowed the dealership or a valet to move and lock the car without having access to your valuables in the glove box or the trunk.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, telriv said:

I did that on Wed. Ed

Sorry, wrong Tom, I'll correct that.

Last Wednesday, Tom T. stated that the door/ignition key allowed you to leave your car with a dealer / valet and lock your valuables in the glove box or trunk.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, RivNut said:

I think Tom M. stated it earlier that a door/ignition key allowed the dealership or a valet to move and lock the car without having access to your valuables in the glove box or the trunk.

 

On 2/26/2020 at 9:18 PM, telriv said:

'64 Rivs & full size cars are the same. The diff. between '63 & '64 are the ignition switches, BUT '63 & '64 still have 4 positions. Lock & remove key car can't be started.  OFF & can remove key, BUT still start car. Then of course run & start.  The lock & off functions were so that you could bring the car to the dealer leave the ignition in the off position & the dealer could start & service the car & NOT gain access to the trunk or glove box as long as the glove box was locked they still couldn't access the trunk even if it had a remote trunk release in the glove box

Of course as we know today the trunk CAN be opened by other means by not destroying anything as long as the vacuum hoses will hold vacuum.

 

 Sorry Ed,

 

Tom T. was talking about the ignition switch positions and their function, not which key went to which lock for what reason. 

 

Bill

Edited by Riviera63
revise text (see edit history)
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2/26/2020 at 9:18 PM, telriv said:

'64 Rivs & full size cars are the same. The diff. between '63 & '64 are the ignition switches, BUT '63 & '64 still have 4 positions. Lock & remove key car can't be started.  OFF & can remove key, BUT still start car. Then of course run & start.  The lock & off functions were so that you could bring the car to the dealer leave the ignition in the off position & the dealer could start & service the car & NOT gain access to the trunk or glove box as long as the glove box was locked they still couldn't access the trunk even if it had a remote trunk release in the glove box

Of course as we know today the trunk CAN be opened by other means by not destroying anything as long as the vacuum hoses will hold vacuum.

 

I understand that but, you misstated what Tom said. Just trying to clarify that for him nothing more.

 

Bill

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 minutes ago, RivNut said:

I should have said that Tom T. made it.  What's the big deal?

 

No big deal either way, Ed, it's all good info,  but the first time I heard this two key/valet reasoning was actually by you in a very similar thread a couple years ago...

 

The topic was previously discussed, (like most others I'm sure,  this can be a tough forum to search...) but for what it's worth, there was a pretty good discussion regarding keys and the number of keys that came 'standard'. It was this thread where I first heard the two key/valet reasoning. I only ever had the one key for my '64, but unfortunately both locks on my glovebox and trunk were damaged ever since I've owned it so the vacuum release was my only trunk access. So my one key only opened the doors/ignition, but I have no idea how the original glove box/trunk were keyed. I recently had new locks installed and went with two keys, (door/ignition & trunk (didn't replace the glovebox lock yet, but if/when, I'll key that to the trunk.)

 

 

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

39 minutes ago, RivNut said:

I know. I was restating what Teleriv had said before Steelman asked his question.  I made 5h5e mistake of saying that Tom M.  made the statement when I should have said that Tom T. made it.  What's the big deal?

 

No big deal Ed. Not talking about the name error. Just trying to clarify that Tom was talking about the IGNITION SWITCH position NOT KEYS which you stated. I can't put it any clearer than that. I'm out.

 

Bill

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sorry everyone I stuck my foot in my mouth again.  Sorry for giving false information as I just went down & looked.  I forgot my ignition switch DOES have five positions as Chip has stated.  Reason I forgot was because I have never had the switch in the ACC. position which does work, I just checked.

 

Again sorry for causing any confusion.

 

I've owned the car since new & had to replace the ignition switch in '66 because while I was driving it would randomly cut out for no reason.

I bought a new switch from the dealer at that time.

My car ONLY came with two keys both of which were the same for ALL locks.  I still have the original key that still has the knock out piece still in it.

 

Sometimes it's rough getting older.

 

Tom T.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

 

7 hours ago, KongaMan said:

Perhaps unoriginal.  My 63 and 64 have a single, hex-head key for everything.

I don't know how many of you have a complete history of your Riviera but luckily I do.  I bought my car from the original purchaser, who was just a little OCD. With the car, I got the original window sticker, a multiplayer history of all maintenance, a dealer brochure showing what options coulbe installed by a dealer, and the original owners manual.  

 

Here are a couple of pictures from the original owners manual that discuss keys and locks, and a picture of the last page of the owners manual showing all of the numbers for the car. What does anyone know about a transmission number.

 

Keys: Definately show that one key worked all four locks in my 1963, build date of February 1963.

20200302_191021.thumb.jpg.2a6daed4d23733cc7f56993bf27e51e1.jpg

 

Ignition switch - for those of you who are not familiar with a 63/64 ignition switch, you'll notice a shoulder on each side of the key slot.  These shoulders allow you to grasp and turn the ignition switch without a key.

20200302_191034.thumb.jpg.a7822d776ab7eea9caa7739a4a77f8a2.jpg

 

Last page of the owners manual

20200302_191053.thumb.jpg.8a78d6be921438a0145481406eb1a875.jpg

I have no idea where the blue & white shading comes from

Edited by RivNut (see edit history)
Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 minutes ago, KongaMan said:

Looks like a shadow from a venetian blind.

It was sitting on the kitchen cabinet. It's dark outside. There are LED lights over the counter were on and I had the flash on. ????? I guess if it's readable, no harm no foul.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, RivNut said:

It was sitting on the kitchen cabinet. It's dark outside. There are LED lights over the counter were on and I had the flash on. ????? I guess if it's readable, no harm no foul.

 

Moiré because of the LED timing versus that of the camera. As you say, it's still readable.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...