bloodowl89

Tips on towing a few antiques needed

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If anyone has been following my posts you will know I am planning on towing a few vehicles within a week or so.  I do not have a key to the 1972 Dodge Dart Custom and I have the ignition key to the 1963 Chevrolet C10. The Chevy is a three speed on the column and the Dodge is an automatic. I'll need to possibly clear out some trees and dig the vehicles out a little bit, clean off leaves and such. The Chevy is back a little ways in the woods, and my dad was saying something about hoping the transmission wasn't locked up or something like that because it wouldn't roll. Of course the tires are dry rotted and deflated too. What I am really concerned about though is the Dodge. It's facing rear towards direction I need to be pulling. If there was a way to put it in neutral, pull it out a ways, and then put it on the trailer proper before putting it in park, that would be nice. I'm not sure if those had any features like some newer cars do as kinda a bypass for that. I have a come along winch but I know I'll need more than that. Any suggestions on what else I would need, or just would make for an easier job? Plus I can't get the trunk open and I was going to ask to be sure but you have to have the key to unlock it, right? There were no latches or anything like that? Hopefully these are dumb questions but nonetheless I always appreciate the knowledge and the help. Thank you all.

Edited by bloodowl89 (see edit history)

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Benefits of AACA Membership.

The Dodge will be stuck in park and have the steering locked until you have a key. The trunk needs a key to open (no cable).

 

You could conceivably bypass "park" by crawling under it and disconnecting the shift linkage. There are 2 linkages that go down to on the left side of the car. One goes to the carb, the other to the steering colunm for the shifter. The one from the column is what you want. It is probably a cotter pin and some washers holding it on. Its up over the top of the transmission pan a little (I can't explain that well, but you'll see when you are under there). You might even find a way under the hood to disconnect the linkage, not sure, but at the transmission you definitely can.

 

Another way is to take the driveline out, the trouble with that is that the back of the transmission will be open, and when the nose of the car comes up transmission fluid will dump out. I would go for the linkage if you are just going to flatbed it or trailer it.

 

Unfortunately if you are going to flat tow it, you have to take the driveline out. After 1965 Darts have no rear pump on the transmission, so towing with the back wheels on the ground will damage the transmission. It might be possible to disconnect the driveline at the rear axle, and then tie the driveline up to the exhaust or something to get it away from the rearend. That would keep the fluid from dumping out. Tie it real good because it just slides out at the transmission end (no bolts there).

 

I know of no way to deal with the steering lock without a key. If it didn't get locked with the wheels perfectly straight, and they almost never do, it is going to be really tough to get it loaded. Good luck.

 

 

Edited by Bloo (see edit history)
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Maybe it would pay to call a locksmith and have him pick the ignition lock to the 'open' position so you can put the car in neutral and straighten the steering. The ignition cylinder can be removed without a key, but you have to remove the steering wheel to do so.  While he's there, he can also pick the trunk lock cylinder so you can open the trunk.  While it's open, remove the lock cylinder retainer (it slides off) so you can remove the cylinder and use a screwdriver to open the trunk until you get keys made.

 

Another alternative is to have the locksmith make keys for the existing locks by the 'impressioning' method.  The locksmith will know what you're talking about.  If he doesn't, find another one!

 

Hope this helps.

 

Harold

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If the steering wheel is fixed in the straight position and the rear end is facing out, jack the rear up and slide a tow dolly under it and off you go. Worry about the locksmith later if you can't find one before towing.

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REMEMBER: NEVER put money or work into a vehicle that is not registered in your name or at least, signed over to you with a Bill of Sale.

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42 minutes ago, Harold said:

The ignition cylinder can be removed without a key, but you have to remove the steering wheel to do so.

 

Are you sure? And that is with no damage, right? I haven't been into one of those columns in years. I found this. https://www.allpar.com/trucks/dodge/steering-column-fix.html Good news for bloodowl89.

 

5 minutes ago, keiser31 said:

REMEMBER: NEVER put money or work into a vehicle that is not registered in your name or at least, signed over to you with a Bill of Sale.

 

THIS ^^ 

 

As a Washingtonian, nothing less than a title transferred into my name will do. You guys in Oregon might have it a little easier than we do. A bill of sale by itself doesn't do anything here. IMHO establishing ownership in your state, whatever that entails, should ALWAYS the first job.

 

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Anyone can come along later and claim ownership AFTER you do the work without title. I have seen it happen. NOT a pretty sight.

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18 minutes ago, Bloo said:

 

Are you sure? And that is with no damage, right? I haven't been into one of those columns in years. I found this. https://www.allpar.com/trucks/dodge/steering-column-fix.html Good news for bloodowl89.

 

 

 

 

The way I remember it is that you remove the steering wheel, lock plate, and turn signal switch to get at the retainer pin that you depress to get the cylinder out.  GM and Ford needed the key turned to be able to depress the retaining pin, Mopar didn't.   Unfortunately I sold off my early-seventies Mopar shop manuals (downsizing, y'know) so can't refer to them any more.

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I got my Silverado off the edge of the driveway and onto an icy spot last week, couldn't go either way. It was a tight spot by the house. I pulled my wife's Tahoe up to the front at 90 degrees and hooked up my tow chain. Put her truck in 4WD and backed around so my truck was straight again all by myself.

 

Never rule out brute strength to get things where you want them. I have moved a lot of stuff with stuck or locked steering, frozen brakes, or no help.

 

I bought a locking steering car a couple years ago, brought it home, put it in the garage, sold it, and shipped it half way across the US, and never opened the driver's door.

 

Some of the boys in the family are car guys. I expect they will repeat the stories and, in a few decades, they the memories will become legends.

 

All that detail work can be done at home. Find a solid pull point and drag them on the tires.

Bernie

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I recently opened a trunk  by taking out the back seat and using a piece of plastic conduit to reach the latch,

I don't exactly recall just what I did at the end of the conduit to trip the lock, but something simple worked.

This was a 65 Chrysler, so could be similar.

The adventure of the move will be an insignificant investment, but when you get these home get the titles squared away before you do any major money investments.

Labor is free if you have the tools.

Nothing could be worse than fixing up a car and finding that you cant own it.

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Just remember if the tranny is seized up, or locked in park, you may destroy the differential spider gears if trying to drag the vehicle around.

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On 2/22/2020 at 4:51 PM, keiser31 said:

REMEMBER: NEVER put money or work into a vehicle that is not registered in your name or at least, signed over to you with a Bill of Sale.

  AND A TITLE  IN THE NAME OF THE PERSON THAT YOU ARE BUYING IT FROM, CHECK HIS ID!

IF THE TITLE IS DATED SOME TIME AGO YOU MAY HAVE TO PAY A LATE TITLE FEE.$$$

Edited by Roger Walling (see edit history)
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On 2/22/2020 at 3:05 PM, Harold said:

Maybe it would pay to call a locksmith and have him pick the ignition lock to the 'open' position so you can put the car in neutral and straighten the steering. The ignition cylinder can be removed without a key, but you have to remove the steering wheel to do so.  While he's there, he can also pick the trunk lock cylinder so you can open the trunk.  While it's open, remove the lock cylinder retainer (it slides off) so you can remove the cylinder and use a screwdriver to open the trunk until you get keys made.

 

Another alternative is to have the locksmith make keys for the existing locks by the 'impressioning' method.  The locksmith will know what you're talking about.  If he doesn't, find another one!

So basically when I remove all of this it will go into neutral and the wheels won't be locked? Also, as far as the title thing goes I have bills of sales for both vehicles. To my info you can't register the vehicles unless they are road worthy so I have to do the work to that point to get them registered. I am going to see if I can find the original titles for them as well at a later point. I will likely do that before doing any major repairs on the vehicles. I plan on going through Alabama if possible to do the registration because they are a bill of sale state. I will only have a car trailer to work with so unfortunately no tow dolly. That would likely be easier if I knew that everything rolled freely. I'll check more into it.

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With the ignition lock cylinder removed, you can turn the linkage in the steering column to unlock the steering wheel and allow you to put the shift into neutral.

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Can't the rear of the car be jacked up, and the driveshaft be unbolted from the differential? That way even it the Transmission is stuck in park, the rear wheels will roll as if in neutral.

 

Oh, and use some wire to hold up the loose end of the driveshaft so it doesn't drag on the ground.

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If the wheels aren't rolling by the time you get it to the trailer pour some water on the deck, seems simple and almost silly but you'll be surprised how much easier they will slide.  

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7 hours ago, viv w said:

Just remember if the tranny is seized up, or locked in park, you may destroy the differential spider gears if trying to drag the vehicle around.

 

 

Driveshafts can be unbolted. 

 

Bob 

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That roadworthy thing before proof of ownership has me confused.

Its like cart before the horse.

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I'd want a clear title first even if I need to trailer or dolly it home.

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19 hours ago, bloodowl89 said:

So basically when I remove all of this it will go into neutral and the wheels won't be locked? Also, as far as the title thing goes I have bills of sales for both vehicles. To my info you can't register the vehicles unless they are road worthy so I have to do the work to that point to get them registered. I am going to see if I can find the original titles for them as well at a later point. I will likely do that before doing any major repairs on the vehicles. I plan on going through Alabama if possible to do the registration because they are a bill of sale state. I will only have a car trailer to work with so unfortunately no tow dolly. That would likely be easier if I knew that everything rolled freely. I'll check more into it.

 

If it were me, with the confirmation from Harold that you can remove the ignition lock cylinder without a key by just pushing the pin, I would bring tools and a steering wheel puller, take things apart as shown in the Allpar article, and then twist/push whatever the lock cylinder twists or pushes to unlock the steering column. Then you can both steer and take it out of park.

 

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2 hours ago, Bloo said:

 

If it were me, with the confirmation from Harold that you can remove the ignition lock cylinder without a key by just pushing the pin, I would bring tools and a steering wheel puller, take things apart as shown in the Allpar article, and then twist/push whatever the lock cylinder twists or pushes to unlock the steering column. Then you can both steer and take it out of park.

 

I agree 100% and plan on going that route.

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Back in the 70s manual transmissions had to be in reverse to remove the key and were locked there. Remove one pin and went away. Could spot most who had done it by the backup lights always on. Then there was the clutch/starter interlock. Since I often had to get a car home with a blown clutch (start in 1st by cranking the starter & clutchless shifts). The necessary splice of the two big purple wires was quickly done.

 

Does the AACA require the 1974 seat belt interlock to be reconnected ?

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4 hours ago, padgett said:

splice of the two big purple wires was quickly done.

 

Ha! Yes, that works very well, done it many times! My 84 F-150 still has the clutch switch operational, but no other vehicle.

 

Even column shift  three speeds had to have the shifter in reverse to remove the key.

 

As I mentioned in another thread, AACA requires the vehicle to be driven onto the show field, but no operational tests of other systems are needed.

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I bought these cars and was uncertain what I was going to do with them. I licensed both of them legally in my name and received the proper ownership documentation in my name. I never buy anything I wouldn't mind being stuck with and wouldn't spend more than $1,000 on anything without proof of my ownership. And I do pay the appropriate sales tax. In New York State cars of this age do not have a title. They use a transferable registration.

I sold the Bug Eye as is for a project and parted out the Lincoln.

Here we call the casual passing of ownership without legal transfer "jumping title". I had a registration for the Bug Eye from 1968 with two casual owners in between. I located the last registered owner and essentially bought the car from him. The Lincoln was just filed as a lost registration. The Jaguar was the same situation as the Bug Eye.

 

At this point in my life I find it easier to do things by the book. I certainly know how to take the other options, but proper procedures up front have been working.

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