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1923 23-45, hasn't run in years, needs who knows what


Andy69
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Andy, 

    Really glad that you dropped the pan.  Did you find the procedure on rebuilding the Marvel carburetor.  It is important that you review this.  Attached is a link.  I am not sure when they started using potmetal venturi's.  Consider straightening that pushrod, but likely someone should have a spare.  Then to figure out why it is bent.    Also, maybe for next time the pan is off, the oil pump screens are usually in very poor condition and rip easily, and it is a good idea to replace the screen.  I don't know if you were able to inspect it.   Hugh

 

https://forums.aaca.org/topic/322950-1927-buick-carb-removal/

 

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3 minutes ago, Hubert_25-25 said:

Andy, 

    Really glad that you dropped the pan.  Did you find the procedure on rebuilding the Marvel carburetor.  It is important that you review this.  Attached is a link.  I am not sure when they started using potmetal venturi's.  Consider straightening that pushrod, but likely someone should have a spare.  Then to figure out why it is bent.    Also, maybe for next time the pan is off, the oil pump screens are usually in very poor condition and rip easily, and it is a good idea to replace the screen.  I don't know if you were able to inspect it.   Hugh

 

https://forums.aaca.org/topic/322950-1927-buick-carb-removal/

 

 

It's actually a Carter BB-1 517S carb. I ordered the kit and downloaded a manual from the carb doctor.  Supposed to be a much better carburetor which I guess is why it was upgraded.

 

After I saw the bend rod (it's not bent, really, just a slight bow.  I guess you could say bent, but not really much) I checked that valve with a rubber mallet then when It looked OK turned the engine over slowly with the crank while watching.  It moves ok, no binding or anything, so I think it just needs to be straightened.

 

I thought maybe the grit was engine bits at first, but I saved some and took a closer look at it, and it's just dirt.  A little unnerving to see for a guy who's owned mostly newer cars.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Ben,   

     It was determined that the fiber timing gear was used on 1924-1928 Buick 6 cylinder motors.  

The Buick 4 cylinder engines that ended with the 1924 Model had steel timing gears.

The Buick 6 cylinder engines with the non removeable heads ended in 1923 had steel timing gears.

 

Hugh

Edited by Hubert_25-25 (see edit history)
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Hugh,

            I think only the 1923 cage valve engines used steel timing gears.

    As a set (3) they will fit in older engines, this could explain why some older engines have steel gears.

 

     John

     1922-6-55

.

 

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Bob, 

     Good point.  My concern for the new Buick owner is that they have an awareness that the water pump is driven by a fiber timing gear.  Of issue is cars that have sat neglected for extended periods and the water pump has frozen.  Cranking an engine will have disasterous results.  It appears that 1935 was the last year for the "fiber gear" driven water pump.  1936 looks to have the distributor moved to running off the middle of the camshaft, and no water pump on the side of the motor.  Buick must have finally moved to belt driven water pump in 1936.   Is this correct?  

Hugh

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The straight 8 fiber gear was the camshaft drive gear and the generator/water pump  was driven of the fiber cam gear. Buick sold  .020" n oversize gear to use on worn engines.  The original gears were steel center while many of the replacement gears are all fiber.

 

Bob Engle

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  • 3 weeks later...

Got the car out today, trying to get it running.  
 

not successful yet.

 

I had fuel leaking from everywhere on the carb, so I took it apart and changed the float setting a bit, which seems to have helped.  There wasn’t any fuel getting to the cylinders, so hopefully if I can straighten the carb out that will fix that.  I ran out of time before I had a chance to check for spark. Turns over at least.

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  • 8 months later...
On 2/20/2020 at 11:04 AM, jbbuick22 said:

Hugh

I think 1922 was the last for fiber gears

 

John

No. Fiber gears used on all the sixes after 24, and Into the eights. I don't know when they quit.  1954?

 

To Answer Ben P.  The D and E cars all had steel timing gears. ( steel might be overrating it, but iron anyway). They aren't all that hard.

Edited by Oldtech (see edit history)
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  • 6 months later...
On 3/11/2020 at 12:54 PM, Andy69 said:

 

It's actually a Carter BB-1 517S carb. I ordered the kit and downloaded a manual from the carb doctor.  Supposed to be a much better carburetor which I guess is why it was upgraded.

 

After I saw the bend rod (it's not bent, really, just a slight bow.  I guess you could say bent, but not really much) I checked that valve with a rubber mallet then when It looked OK turned the engine over slowly with the crank while watching.  It moves ok, no binding or anything, so I think it just needs to be straightened.

 

I thought maybe the grit was engine bits at first, but I saved some and took a closer look at it, and it's just dirt.  A little unnerving to see for a guy who's owned mostly newer cars.

What happened with the rods? Most of mine are bowed as well. Every things to move smooth so I don’t think I will try to straighten them.  Did you have to repair/replace them?

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Many of us Buick owners have had to deal with bent push rods on cars that sat for many years and valves were stuck. A 1920 model 44 roadster for sale by a Museum in Cumberland MD had almost all bent. The 1922 I worked on in Baltimore had several stuck valves. DSCF1538.JPG.ed6b801c32a900512855d3ec5928cd22.JPG

I loosened the rocker arms, removed them and straightened them on a hardwood block with a hammer. Penetrating oil on the valve stems and tapping with a brass hammer got everything running smoothly.

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A safe practice every Spring before first run is to ‘tunk’ all the tops of rocker valve ends with a nylon hammer to make sure none of the valves froze on you over the off season. 
 

I’m not sure why, but caged valve Buick’s have a propensity to seize after prolonged storage. 
 

When you do your valve job, add lifesaver sized felt washers to each valve stem.  Buick did this from the factory the last year for caged valves, 1923. McMaster Carr carries an assortment.  You will have to soak them in oil to get them to stretch over the stem.  Lube them often. 
 

 

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