Andy69

1923 23-45, hasn't run in years, needs who knows what

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5 minutes ago, Morgan Wright said:

 

 

I have metal timing gears on both my E-49s

I watched the one video where you got into that... I had the assumption that the gear was supposed to be fiber and someone switched it out for steel in the past?

Haven’t even seen mine yet - engine up in Lansing. I know someone who had a fiber gear shred apart though while driving - it was a catastrophic mess. Said the ‘reproductions’ available not really suitable and he spent 3 years looking for an original.

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The E-49 gear set is 1918, 1919, 1920. 

I have seen the reproduction fiber gears for sale and they lack the metal hub that the original gears have.  That is a lot of stress to put on a keyslot in a fiber hub.   I guess they figured that out nearly 100 years ago and someone forgot to look in the old play book.    Hugh

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On 2/16/2020 at 8:30 PM, Larry Schramm said:

Welcome to the group.  Where are you located?

 

Hubert gives you some great advice on where to start on getting your car road ready.

 

I'm in Memphis, TN.

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The big parts book does list the camshaft gear separate.  In the year specific "book of parts", they are only listed as a set.  Interesting that they also show oversize gears.  Anyone know when they stopped using fiber gears?  

 

IMG_0037.thumb.JPG.e38b99e98c87fc15147d0c9c3261298b.JPG

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Hey All ... Newbe here ,..

I just took on a Barn find 26 Standard.

On jacks from 29-1968,.. Purchased and ran for 68/69 (On jacks when stored for the winter)

All tires are from the 20s,. New inter tubes were installed in 68,.. AND 3 ARE STILL HOLDING AIR AFTER 2 WEEKS! (One has a slow leak)

Last started in 1970,. drove it into the garage and shes been on jacks since.

Just took her home. all original except the horn and the firewall tank/passengers side. They think its stored somewhere,. It didnt work in 68 so they replaced it with a VW horn.

Pictures below are after I spent 12 hours, a nylon brush and WD40 CAREFULLY cleaning 3/4in of oily grime (Which was protecting the cast iron and bolts..)

 

 

I Did a "Google" for starting a 26 Buick and found you guys. 

 

Hubert 25-25,.. I printed out your post and will follow your advice... perfect!! 

Good thing I read your post before trying to turn her,.. the water pump, the ignition switch, and the distributor are stuck due to potmetal expansion.

Other than that, The motor is in perfect shape inside and out..

Thank You all for sharing your knowledge. I believe I just hooked in with some new friends.

 

Wild Bill 

 

 

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Edited by Wild Bill 1926 (see edit history)
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Wild Bill, 

      Welcome.  We are all working together to learn from each other and keep these Buicks runnning.  Please post some other photos of your car.  It looks like you have a real nice one there.   Here is another note that I added to the list.  

Pot metal failures cause problems.  The following areas will likely need attention

1.       Distributors – housing growth prevents spark advance.  discussed above

2.       Carburetor – venture growth – prevents easy starting and idling – discussed above

3.       Ignition switch – switch shaft grows, housing hole grows smaller-  Bob’s Automobilia has parts-replace both housing and switches.

4.       Speedometers – internals freeze up.  Disconnect the cable to prevent cable damage. 

 

Hugh 

Edited by Hubert_25-25 (see edit history)
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25 minutes ago, Hubert_25-25 said:

Wild Bill, 

      Welcome.  We are all working together to learn from each other and keep these Buicks runnning.  Please post some other photos of your car.  It looks like you have a real nice one there.   Here is another note that I added to the list.  

Pot metal failures cause problems.  The following areas will likely need attention

1.       Distributors – housing growth prevents spark advance.  discussed above

2.       Carburetor – venture growth – prevents easy starting and idling – discussed above

3.       Ignition switch – switch shaft grows, housing hole grows smaller-  Bob’s Automobilia has parts-replace both housing and switches.

4.       Speedometers – internals freeze up.  Disconnect the cable to prevent cable damage. 

 

Hugh 

Thanks Bob for the welcome,

Hugh,.. Thanks for the input,..

All the typical components are stuck,, I plan to free each component before a start attempt.

The valves are free, so I think the next thing will be to remove the water pump and jog the motor free. 

Next step is to bore scope the cylinders where they sat,.. so far they look great but I need to see where it sat for 50 years.

Then Ill drop the oil pan to clean that out, and go thru each component.

once I get her running, then ill buy new tires. The previous own will help with the split rims. 

 

Ill send more pics tomorrow,.. I don't have them in this puter.

The previous owner painted the rims, bumpers, radiator bezel, and touched up a few places where the paint chipped.

it was a preservation attempt more than a restoration.

Im glad,.. it kept the parts in great condition.

 

 

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More pics

Front wheel, before/after a careful archaeological extraction. bits of the original linkage boots was mixed in the muck.

The dirt/grease mixture preserved the components.

 

Wheel condition,..

I plan to paint the spit rims silver and install new black wall tires,..

leave the rest. 

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IMG_20200215_131938787_HDR.jpg

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Delivery day... Betty was uncovered, tires inflated, Dead bedded to my house and rolled to this position. 

....Yes, I named her,.. and Yes, I know that means I have to keep her.

 IMG_20200215_130600342.thumb.jpg.6acf1021a16397e3a105fcc73a83610d.jpg

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Andy:  Being a motor head myself, I have enjoyed learning about my 1917 Buick.  I'm sure you will enjoy the journey as you learn about and get your great find back on the road.  

 

Bob Engle

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2 hours ago, Wild Bill 1926 said:

More pics

 

IMG_20200223_133904159.jpg

 

 

 

Never seen front mechanical brakes before, I bet that was tricky to engineer

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Yes Morgan. A whole lot going on with this design. Photo after I rebuilt these on my 1925 Master. Internal return springs were broken and the passenger side was totally locked up with no movement of any pivoting parts. I made new fitted clevis pins. Now I have at least 3 wheel brakes since one of the rear brake shaft return spring is broken. The former owner drove the car with out operating front brakes for years around his farm. Quite a thrill the first time I drove the car down his farm lane. All components must pivot with a minimum of play.DSCF5925.thumb.JPG.9b2c2ef7c405ec4def79529ea01fc2cb.JPG

 The leather boot is to cover the greased shaft which the outside brake unit is allowed to telescope in and out. Later models have a boot over the pivot assembly on the brake back plate.

 

DSCF5997.thumb.JPG.5087b3d6b2293e3f84b70f6fcb8142a4.JPG   DSCF5995.thumb.JPG.b9e463476adf725d4c77f4730c04647d.JPG Reaming worn component for oversize pin.

 

 

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Update.  Drained the oil.  About 3 quarts came out, very slowly.  Probably a lot of sludge.  Tried to remove the oil pan but there is at least one bolt covered by the transmission bell housing.  So that looks like a no go unless it can be done without dropping the transmission.  Is there an alternate way of cleaning out the sump?

 

Pulled the carb and disassembled it.  It’s actually a Carter BB-1 from a 1940s cabover Chevrolet (carb no. 517s).  Dumped about a teaspoon full of rust out of the float bowl.  Good news is rebuild kits are much easier to come by and it’s a better carburetor.  Also much easier to find a replacement if it comes to that.
 

It’s also been converted to electric fuel pump - not by me.
 

Removed the engine and valve covers to check everything out.  Seems to be in good order.   Put some oil in the proper places and turned the engine by hand, and I didn’t notice anything out of the ordinary.  
 

going to put a new battery in it, rebuild the carb, add oil, and go from there.

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29 minutes ago, Andy69 said:

Update.  Drained the oil.  About 3 quarts came out, very slowly.  Probably a lot of sludge.  Tried to remove the oil pan but there is at least one bolt covered by the transmission bell housing.  So that looks like a no go unless it can be done without dropping the transmission.  Is there an alternate way of cleaning out the sump?

 

 

 

It's not the transmission bell housing. It's only the flywheel cover and it comes off with a few bolts. It's a pain, but the flywheel cover needs to come off anyway to clean out the mouse nest.

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Ok I see it now.  No wonder these cars are so heavy.  The flywheel cover on my Chevelle weighs about 6 ounces.

 

lots of sludge in it, along with A LOT of grit.  I saved some of it to clean it off and take a closer look but I think it’s just grit as opposed to bearing material.  
 

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Cleaned the sump out (that stuff is nasty.  This is the dirtiest car I've worked on, ever), made a new cork gasket from roll cork from the hobby store and got it reinstalled.  Waiting for the carb kit to arrive.  Took the top and side engine covers off and checked the rockers and valves with a rubber mallet.  Looks like everything is loose but one of the push rods has a slight bend in it so I'll probably have to address that first.  NAPA has the 6v battery I need.  Racing season starts this weekend so it might be next week sometime before I can try to start it.

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Andy, 

    Really glad that you dropped the pan.  Did you find the procedure on rebuilding the Marvel carburetor.  It is important that you review this.  Attached is a link.  I am not sure when they started using potmetal venturi's.  Consider straightening that pushrod, but likely someone should have a spare.  Then to figure out why it is bent.    Also, maybe for next time the pan is off, the oil pump screens are usually in very poor condition and rip easily, and it is a good idea to replace the screen.  I don't know if you were able to inspect it.   Hugh

 

https://forums.aaca.org/topic/322950-1927-buick-carb-removal/

 

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3 minutes ago, Hubert_25-25 said:

Andy, 

    Really glad that you dropped the pan.  Did you find the procedure on rebuilding the Marvel carburetor.  It is important that you review this.  Attached is a link.  I am not sure when they started using potmetal venturi's.  Consider straightening that pushrod, but likely someone should have a spare.  Then to figure out why it is bent.    Also, maybe for next time the pan is off, the oil pump screens are usually in very poor condition and rip easily, and it is a good idea to replace the screen.  I don't know if you were able to inspect it.   Hugh

 

https://forums.aaca.org/topic/322950-1927-buick-carb-removal/

 

 

It's actually a Carter BB-1 517S carb. I ordered the kit and downloaded a manual from the carb doctor.  Supposed to be a much better carburetor which I guess is why it was upgraded.

 

After I saw the bend rod (it's not bent, really, just a slight bow.  I guess you could say bent, but not really much) I checked that valve with a rubber mallet then when It looked OK turned the engine over slowly with the crank while watching.  It moves ok, no binding or anything, so I think it just needs to be straightened.

 

I thought maybe the grit was engine bits at first, but I saved some and took a closer look at it, and it's just dirt.  A little unnerving to see for a guy who's owned mostly newer cars.

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No air filter = dirt gets in

No fuel filter = more dirt gets in

No oil filter = dirt stays in

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Posted (edited)

Earlier on in this thread the question (or at least I had question) came up re. what years fiber timing gears ran.

Since the t/gear cover is blocked in by the frame I hadn’t even seen the one in my 1918 E-35. Just heard from the shop doing the engine rebuild — it is steel and not fiber (thank god). My mechanic told me it does have a chip in one tooth, but that he and the rebuilder both thought that the gear itself has 50,000 more miles in it. Since I MIGHT put 600 miles on it per year there’s no way it’ll be used up in my lifetime. Sticking with it.

Still would be interested in knowing when the fiber gears began and ended though. The parts-book makes no mention of material and the illustration appears as a black blob identifying only the general shape of the thing....

Edited by Ben P.
Typo (see edit history)
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Posted (edited)

Ben,   

     It was determined that the fiber timing gear was used on 1924-1928 Buick 6 cylinder motors.  

The Buick 4 cylinder engines that ended with the 1924 Model had steel timing gears.

The Buick 6 cylinder engines with the non removeable heads ended in 1923 had steel timing gears.

 

Hugh

Edited by Hubert_25-25 (see edit history)
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Hugh,

            I think only the 1923 cage valve engines used steel timing gears.

    As a set (3) they will fit in older engines, this could explain why some older engines have steel gears.

 

     John

     1922-6-55

.

 

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