Jump to content

1923 23-45, hasn't run in years, needs who knows what


Recommended Posts

Update.  Drained the oil.  About 3 quarts came out, very slowly.  Probably a lot of sludge.  Tried to remove the oil pan but there is at least one bolt covered by the transmission bell housing.  So that looks like a no go unless it can be done without dropping the transmission.  Is there an alternate way of cleaning out the sump?

 

Pulled the carb and disassembled it.  It’s actually a Carter BB-1 from a 1940s cabover Chevrolet (carb no. 517s).  Dumped about a teaspoon full of rust out of the float bowl.  Good news is rebuild kits are much easier to come by and it’s a better carburetor.  Also much easier to find a replacement if it comes to that.
 

It’s also been converted to electric fuel pump - not by me.
 

Removed the engine and valve covers to check everything out.  Seems to be in good order.   Put some oil in the proper places and turned the engine by hand, and I didn’t notice anything out of the ordinary.  
 

going to put a new battery in it, rebuild the carb, add oil, and go from there.

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

29 minutes ago, Andy69 said:

Update.  Drained the oil.  About 3 quarts came out, very slowly.  Probably a lot of sludge.  Tried to remove the oil pan but there is at least one bolt covered by the transmission bell housing.  So that looks like a no go unless it can be done without dropping the transmission.  Is there an alternate way of cleaning out the sump?

 

 

 

It's not the transmission bell housing. It's only the flywheel cover and it comes off with a few bolts. It's a pain, but the flywheel cover needs to come off anyway to clean out the mouse nest.

  • Haha 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok I see it now.  No wonder these cars are so heavy.  The flywheel cover on my Chevelle weighs about 6 ounces.

 

lots of sludge in it, along with A LOT of grit.  I saved some of it to clean it off and take a closer look but I think it’s just grit as opposed to bearing material.  
 

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

Cleaned the sump out (that stuff is nasty.  This is the dirtiest car I've worked on, ever), made a new cork gasket from roll cork from the hobby store and got it reinstalled.  Waiting for the carb kit to arrive.  Took the top and side engine covers off and checked the rockers and valves with a rubber mallet.  Looks like everything is loose but one of the push rods has a slight bend in it so I'll probably have to address that first.  NAPA has the 6v battery I need.  Racing season starts this weekend so it might be next week sometime before I can try to start it.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Andy, 

    Really glad that you dropped the pan.  Did you find the procedure on rebuilding the Marvel carburetor.  It is important that you review this.  Attached is a link.  I am not sure when they started using potmetal venturi's.  Consider straightening that pushrod, but likely someone should have a spare.  Then to figure out why it is bent.    Also, maybe for next time the pan is off, the oil pump screens are usually in very poor condition and rip easily, and it is a good idea to replace the screen.  I don't know if you were able to inspect it.   Hugh

 

https://forums.aaca.org/topic/322950-1927-buick-carb-removal/

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Hubert_25-25 said:

Andy, 

    Really glad that you dropped the pan.  Did you find the procedure on rebuilding the Marvel carburetor.  It is important that you review this.  Attached is a link.  I am not sure when they started using potmetal venturi's.  Consider straightening that pushrod, but likely someone should have a spare.  Then to figure out why it is bent.    Also, maybe for next time the pan is off, the oil pump screens are usually in very poor condition and rip easily, and it is a good idea to replace the screen.  I don't know if you were able to inspect it.   Hugh

 

https://forums.aaca.org/topic/322950-1927-buick-carb-removal/

 

 

It's actually a Carter BB-1 517S carb. I ordered the kit and downloaded a manual from the carb doctor.  Supposed to be a much better carburetor which I guess is why it was upgraded.

 

After I saw the bend rod (it's not bent, really, just a slight bow.  I guess you could say bent, but not really much) I checked that valve with a rubber mallet then when It looked OK turned the engine over slowly with the crank while watching.  It moves ok, no binding or anything, so I think it just needs to be straightened.

 

I thought maybe the grit was engine bits at first, but I saved some and took a closer look at it, and it's just dirt.  A little unnerving to see for a guy who's owned mostly newer cars.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...

Earlier on in this thread the question (or at least I had question) came up re. what years fiber timing gears ran.

Since the t/gear cover is blocked in by the frame I hadn’t even seen the one in my 1918 E-35. Just heard from the shop doing the engine rebuild — it is steel and not fiber (thank god). My mechanic told me it does have a chip in one tooth, but that he and the rebuilder both thought that the gear itself has 50,000 more miles in it. Since I MIGHT put 600 miles on it per year there’s no way it’ll be used up in my lifetime. Sticking with it.

Still would be interested in knowing when the fiber gears began and ended though. The parts-book makes no mention of material and the illustration appears as a black blob identifying only the general shape of the thing....

Edited by Ben P.
Typo (see edit history)
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Ben,   

     It was determined that the fiber timing gear was used on 1924-1928 Buick 6 cylinder motors.  

The Buick 4 cylinder engines that ended with the 1924 Model had steel timing gears.

The Buick 6 cylinder engines with the non removeable heads ended in 1923 had steel timing gears.

 

Hugh

Edited by Hubert_25-25 (see edit history)
  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Hugh,

            I think only the 1923 cage valve engines used steel timing gears.

    As a set (3) they will fit in older engines, this could explain why some older engines have steel gears.

 

     John

     1922-6-55

.

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Bob, 

     Good point.  My concern for the new Buick owner is that they have an awareness that the water pump is driven by a fiber timing gear.  Of issue is cars that have sat neglected for extended periods and the water pump has frozen.  Cranking an engine will have disasterous results.  It appears that 1935 was the last year for the "fiber gear" driven water pump.  1936 looks to have the distributor moved to running off the middle of the camshaft, and no water pump on the side of the motor.  Buick must have finally moved to belt driven water pump in 1936.   Is this correct?  

Hugh

Link to post
Share on other sites

The straight 8 fiber gear was the camshaft drive gear and the generator/water pump  was driven of the fiber cam gear. Buick sold  .020" n oversize gear to use on worn engines.  The original gears were steel center while many of the replacement gears are all fiber.

 

Bob Engle

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 3 weeks later...

Got the car out today, trying to get it running.  
 

not successful yet.

 

I had fuel leaking from everywhere on the carb, so I took it apart and changed the float setting a bit, which seems to have helped.  There wasn’t any fuel getting to the cylinders, so hopefully if I can straighten the carb out that will fix that.  I ran out of time before I had a chance to check for spark. Turns over at least.

  • Like 5
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 8 months later...
On 2/20/2020 at 11:04 AM, jbbuick22 said:

Hugh

I think 1922 was the last for fiber gears

 

John

No. Fiber gears used on all the sixes after 24, and Into the eights. I don't know when they quit.  1954?

 

To Answer Ben P.  The D and E cars all had steel timing gears. ( steel might be overrating it, but iron anyway). They aren't all that hard.

Edited by Oldtech (see edit history)
  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...