Mark Gregory Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 (edited) The Los Angeles City Fire Department (LAFD) announced that it is buying its first electric fire engine, which it claims will be “the first in North America. https://electrek.co/2020/02/12/los-angeles-city-fire-department-buys-first-electric-fire-truck/ LAFD Chief Ralph Terrazas commented on the announcement: I am excited that we are the first Department in North America to order this cutting-edge fire engine. The electric fire engine is an innovative tool that will help reduce noise and harmful diesel emissions while providing a flexible tool for firefighting and rescue operations from a technologically advanced platform. We are looking forward to evaluating it in a real-world environment once it hits the streets of Hollywood next year. They placed an order with Rosenbauer, an Austrian-based fire engine manufacturer, which claims to have built “the world’s first fully electric drive fire truck.” We reported on them earlier this year when they brought the prototype on a tour of North America to show it to some fire departments. At the time, the Menlo Park Fire District said that it was planning to buy the truck, but it now looks like Los Angeles is beating them to it. Rosenbauer says that its electric truck is equipped with a 350kW electric powertrain and a 100kWh battery pack, which is good for two hours of operation. Dieter Siegel, CEO of Rosenbauer International, commented on the deal with LAFD: Edited February 12, 2020 by Mark Gregory (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhigdog Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 Not knowing the specs of the truck, but I will comment on two things. 1. Just getting to a fire is only the first part of the equation. Pumping water is far more energy intensive than just showing up. 2. Noting that's it's California I'm not at all surprised. Hopefully the truck won't be based in a part of CA where the electricity is routinely shut off......Bob 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_padavano Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 I'm all for electric vehicles - it leaves more oil for the rest of us. If I still lived in L.A., I might be concerned about this, though: "Rosenbauer says that its electric truck is equipped with a 350kW electric powertrain and a 100kWh battery pack, which is good for two hours of operation." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3macboys Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 Looks like a rescue unit which might be a good purpose for it. As for Engines, Pumper and Aerial trucks most departments have processes in place to refuel them on scene which says something about how long they have to be able operate. I'm not sure that we will ever get there on batteries Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 (edited) CLEAN AIR at the site of a FIRE in HOLLYWOOD goes well with the Academy Award winner worried about milk in coffee. (Drink it black, like real men) Hope nobody is hurt using that thing during the two hours of use. Bob Edited February 12, 2020 by 1937hd45 (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVE POLLARD Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 I know it's progress, but I'll take the 1969 Ward LaFrance I use to drive in the Fire Service. Steve 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zepher Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 (edited) Los Angeles has already spent hundreds of millions of dollars on a fleet of electric buses that are barely operational so most of them just sit and rot away in parking lots. It's always easy to throw away millions of dollars on a pipe dream when it's not your money. https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-electric-buses-20180520-story.html And the LAPD spent millions on electric BMWs that are hardly used. https://www.foxnews.com/us/lapd-spent-millions-on-green-electric-bmws-used-for-joyrides-to-nail-salons-day-lunches-report Edited February 13, 2020 by zepher (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
46 woodie Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 I'm with you Steve, I'll take my companies 2000 GPM, Seagraves pumper any day. It will pump for hours on end. We are in trouble if we need to think about reducing noise and emissions in an emergency situation. It figures that it is in Los Angeles, the land of fruits and nuts. I'm all for progress but this is just just another gimmick, destined for the scrap heap in a few years. I can see it now at a large fire, "we have to shut down our hoses, we need to recharge our batteries". What's next electric army tanks? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryB Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 The 100kw battery seems oddly low considering a battery pack of that size can be found in an electric car. Seems like the design needs some review for that aspect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deaddds Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 Clearly a large structure fire will be doused in 2 hours. Then they can tow the pumper back to the station to plug it in. OR, they can clutter the site with fossil fuel based generators to provide electricity for the rare 2.1 hour fire. There, problem solved! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A. Ballard 35R Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 (edited) As usual, what is proclaimed a first is not. A quick google search showed various electric fire engines pre-WWI. Edited February 13, 2020 by A. Ballard 35R (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 Don't overlook the first electric ambulance ride in 1901 with President McKinley, sadly it was also his last. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capngrog Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 That vehicle looks like either a logistics truck or a hazmat truck, and doesn't appear to have either a tanking or pumping capacity. As previous posters have pointed out, a complex fire ground response can go on for hours. For better or worse, I'm afraid that electric vehicles are the wave of the future. I just wish that their proponents would be a bit more honest and not promote them as being "non polluting". It takes a lot of energy (much of it from coal-fired generating plants) to re-charge the batteries of those vehicles. Wind and solar are not yet a significant factor in overall power generation ... maybe (hopefully) in the future. Cheers, Grog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 7 hours ago, joe_padavano said: ........and a 100kWh battery pack, which is good for two hours of operation." Yeah, I don't think Boeing is wasting any R&D money in this area. 😄 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 Guess the Tesla guy doesn't want the liability, otherwise he would be giving them out for free for the publicity. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 This brings up the question, Has anyone added a modern lithium battery to an electric antique car for better performance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gossp Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 2 minutes ago, Roger Walling said: This brings up the question, Has anyone added a modern lithium battery to an electric antique car for better performance? No hot rod talk on this forum. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 6 minutes ago, gossp said: No hot rod talk on this forum. I agree with you but I was commenting in a post about a 2020 fire engine! 😉 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryB Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 8 minutes ago, Roger Walling said: This brings up the question, Has anyone added a modern lithium battery to an electric antique car for better performance? Probably not as the controller for use and charging would have to be developed and added to the vehicle. Deep cycle AGM batteries seem to be the update choice for antique electric vehicles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
46 woodie Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 I served in an Engine Company for 25 years and you can call me "old school", but when my company and I were in the middle of a raging inferno, I want the sound of a Cummins or Detroit Diesel having my back. 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padgett Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 Naturally this is for the "Valley of Smoke" (Chumash name). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVE POLLARD Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 1 hour ago, 46 woodie said: I want the sound of a Cummins or Detroit Diesel having my back. Exactly ! 46 Woodie, our 1948 American LaFrance pumper was donated to our Engine Company back in 1969 when we established.... It came from LI..... not sure of the where about of it now.... Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
46 woodie Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 Wow, the day's of the open cab fire apparatus! Ok for Southern California, but not so good in wet or cold climates. Before my time, sorry I can't be of any help Steve as I entered the Fire Service in 1971. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldovert Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 Instead of hoses it will come with extension cords... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Kingsley Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 There's an open air cab fire engine hiding in the back lot of a garage on 9W in Highland. Will see it occasionally en route from the Mid-Hudson Bridge to either Kingston or New Paltz. It's at the large garage on the right when heading north just before the 299 interchange. I'll see if I can find a picture of it. I know I've tried to photograph it but not sure I was successful. I suspect it's operational because I've seen it in different places on the lot...it's been there about 15 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ply33 Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 4 hours ago, Roger Walling said: This brings up the question, Has anyone added a modern lithium battery to an electric antique car for better performance? 4 hours ago, TerryB said: Probably not as the controller for use and charging would have to be developed and added to the vehicle. Deep cycle AGM batteries seem to be the update choice for antique electric vehicles. Weren't most of the antique electric vehicles powered with Edison batteries? Out of curiosity I did some reading up on those a while back and I think they used nickel on the plates and a caustic in the electrolyte. My layman's interpretation was they were a early form of a nickel metal hydride battery. So maybe some of the newer NiMH batteries would be a better match voltage and performance wise than lead-acid AGM batteries. My impression is that people have been using lead-acid batteries in those old cars not because they were better than the original Edison batteries but because they were available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 (edited) As fun as it is to assume that everyone in the government's employ is stupid and loves to waste "your" money, I have to imagine that the fire department isn't interested in equipment that doesn't work or in making their jobs harder and more dangerous. I seriously doubt they'll expect to be fighting industrial warehouse fires with electric pumpers. Nevertheless, I bet they know that a vast majority of their calls are pretty light duty and don't require that kind of muscle. We had a wood-burning stove at our old house, I threw some days-old ashes in our composter, and two days later there were bright orange flames licking up the outside of my garage. The fire department rolled out, spent maybe 40 seconds spraying stuff on it, looked around, waited a few hours to make sure it didn't flare back up, and then went home. There were three big trucks there, none of which did anything except noisily idle in the street for two hours in the middle of the night making the neighborhood smell like a truck stop. I bet light-duty runs like that are probably 70-80% of an average fire department's job. I see my local fire department most often just driving the fire truck slowly up the street while testing the fireplugs or in the Memorial Day parade. No reason why an electric truck wouldn't be ideal for most of their work. Hell, l bet electric ambulances would be great, too--they don't have to go far. Sure, for big warehouse or industrial fires, roll out the big rigs with diesel engines that can run for days. But for most fire department work, especially suburban stuff, I bet electric trucks are a good solution. It's the same reason I own a giant truck for towing a trailer but I don't drive it every day. Improving society doesn't have to be an all-or-nothing proposition, you know... Edited February 13, 2020 by Matt Harwood (see edit history) 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3macboys Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 1 hour ago, Matt Harwood said: Hell, l bet electric ambulances would be great, too--they don't have to go far. Not fully electric but our county here was the first with hybrid ambulances: https://electricautonomy.ca/2019/05/07/the-siren-call-electrifying-specialist-vehicles-in-municipal-fleets/ All emergency vehicles have incredibly high idle hours on them so hybrid makes a lot of sense - it's not unusual for police cars to have idle time of up to 3 times the run time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVE POLLARD Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 10 minutes ago, 3macboys said: All emergency vehicles have incredibly high idle hours on them so hybrid makes a lot of sense Being in the Fire Service years ago, I remember one of our rescue trucks - 1972 Ford F250, I believe it had 6,000 original miles on it. It sold thru the Fire District by seal bid...beautiful truck, but people at times fail to realized the engine hours on those vehicles... like mention above by 3macboys, a lot of idle hours. After a run, all of our vehicles would go thru a check list... starting miles, ending miles and engine idle hours etc.. So if you see a retired emergency vehicle for sale, always take that into account. Steve Here is a picture of that Ford.... by the way, the individual that purchased it, ended up restoring it years later.... it's now a welding truck ! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpage Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 In an effort to save electricity, the city has refitted the new electric fire truck with a 100 ft. extension cord! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kings32 Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 I spent 30 tears in the fire service I think most large fire companys could not use them . Yes a lot of our calls where short (half hour ) .but we may go out 5 & 6 times a day, there were a number of large fires ,with many engines & trucks for hours or days fighting . Do we get two engines one for short calls one for long calls ? kings32 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
46 woodie Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 I can tell you one thing. The company that gets assigned to the electric truck is going to get a "ribbing" from all the other companies. I can remember when the City of New York sent Engine Company 65 of the FDNY on 43rd St., a new lime green pumper. The lime green color was supposed to be the latest and greatest (see electric fire truck) color for fire apparatus. Well those guy's took a beating from every other fire company in the city, they hated it. When that Engine was phased out, they went back to red and it's been red since then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 Yes, because the single most important factor in choosing equipment that will save lives is whether it looks cool. All the NASCAR drivers thought that neck collar brace thing was stupid, uncomfortable, and didn't make them look butch on the in-car cameras. Then Dale Earnhardt hit that wall... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brass is Best Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 I'm going to guess that they will keep an internal combustion powered engine in the same station. They will use the electric engine to test the technology and for show. They are putting it in a high profile area for propaganda purposes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Gregory Posted February 14, 2020 Author Share Posted February 14, 2020 I remember the lime green trucks 46 woodie a lot of the Firemen here in Canada did not like the colour either. https://www.firerescue1.com/fire-products/fire-apparatus/articles/70s-throwback-lime-yellow-fire-trucks-fade-out-bEDmUh1U2mq83Jqn/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVE POLLARD Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 1 hour ago, 46 woodie said: The lime green color was supposed to be the latest and greatest (see electric fire truck) color for fire apparatus When we were going over the specs of a new engine that we were ordering, the green color came up....I'm trying to remember, but I think it had to do with visibility of the apparatus .... needless to say, we stayed with the traditional fire engine red ! Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
46 woodie Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 Yes, the "Lime Safety Green" as I think it was called, was supposed to be the brightest color on the spectrum. That's why most airport fire vehicles are painted this color. It's very hard to buck tradition in the fire service though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesR Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 19 hours ago, STEVE POLLARD said: Being in the Fire Service years ago, I remember one of our rescue trucks - 1972 Ford F250, I believe it had 6,000 original miles on it. It sold thru the Fire District by seal bid...beautiful truck, but people at times fail to realized the engine hours on those vehicles... like mention above by 3macboys, a lot of idle hours. After a run, all of our vehicles would go thru a check list... starting miles, ending miles and engine idle hours etc.. So if you see a retired emergency vehicle for sale, always take that into account. Steve Here is a picture of that Ford.... by the way, the individual that purchased it, ended up restoring it years later.... it's now a welding truck ! Thanks to you and 46woodie for your service to your community. What makes those big diesel fire engines so fast? I'm always amazed by that, as I think of large diesel powered vehicles as being slow. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JACK M Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 2 hours ago, Matt Harwood said: Then Dale Earnhardt hit that wall... Dale was wearing an open faced helmet. Something I would not use. If he had had face protection he may still be with us. I sat around a camp fire with Ken Shrader several years ago (first on scene) He wouldn't say much more than I just did and changed the subject. My opinion is that Dale should not have been trying to determine the winner of the race when he wasn't in the mix. I am not a fan of blocking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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