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[1937hd45]

 

Carl, When I read your first post I got it in my head that the Pepe shop was in Newark, N.J.. Thank you for posting their website, they have a shop in Danbury, Ct, 20-25 minutes from this keyboard. I'll post our review some time soon. Bob 

Edited February 13, 2020 by 1937hd45 (see edit history)

[C Carl]

Thanks for pointing out the confusing "Newark" location, Bob. I will go back to edit and. clarify. The cheap flight from Seattle to Newark saves bucks. It was also at a convenient time. Plus, I really like to drive, so getting the chance to explore while enjoying the colorful leaves in a new AWD Cadillac is a real bonus. Hey, man, I sure hope you are real happy with Frank Pepes. With all my health problems, I am not supposed to eat things like cheezy, greezy pizza. Far as I am concerned, a Frank Pepe pizza is a pie to die for !!!    -   CC 

[1937hd45]

It looks like art...……….. Modern Art.

 

 

Bob 

[Steve Moskowitz]

Wow, I guess I turned this into the great pizza debate but Giordano's in Chicago is to die for!  Uno's is still in business but Malnati's and Giordano's are two of the big guns in town.  Pizza in Hershey?  Might as well put ketchup on cardboard!

[STEVE POLLARD]

 It's a little past 9am here in NY and I'm craving for PIZZA NOW....lol

 

I guess you know what I'm now having for lunch !

 

Steve

Edited February 13, 2020 by STEVE POLLARD (see edit history)

[Terry Bond]

3 hours ago, Steve Moskowitz said:

Wow, I guess I turned this into the great pizza debate but Giordano's in Chicago is to die for!  Uno's is still in business but Malnati's and Giordano's are two of the big guns in town.  Pizza in Hershey?  Might as well put ketchup on cardboard!

Interesting analogy - ketchup on cardboard!  During our first visit to Scotland, Pizza was not a widely recognized food, especially the further away from the bigger cities of Glasgow and Edinburgh.  We often attended small town fairs with our local antique car club, and enjoyed the bagpipe music and the usual athletic events (caber toss, etc).  A usual feature at those events was an assortment of "food trucks" vending pork pies, beer, fish and chips, etc.  At one such event we saw of all things - a PIZZA Truck.  We were having serious pizza withdrawal and decided to take a chance on the Scottish highland version.  It was literally and English muffin with ketchup and a piece of British sausage on it.   Will never forget that version of a "personal pan pizza." 

Terry

[JACK M]

The pizza I had on the sidewalks of Venice has little resemblance to what we Americans call Pizza.

[Peter J.Heizmann]

1 hour ago, JACK M said:

The pizza I had on the sidewalks of Venice has little resemblance to what we Americans call Pizza.

 

Agree, Jack.  My wife and I were touring Rome in 1984.  Outside the Coliseum I spotted a pizza vendor.  We were rather hungry so I bought some.  What a shock.  It was so bland tasting it made watching reruns of last year's weather report look exciting.  No cheese, just a little bit of marinara, lot of tasteless veggies.  

[Bhigdog]

2 hours ago, Terry Bond said:

It was literally and English muffin with ketchup and a piece of British sausage on it

 

I don't think British cooking was ever considered a gustatory delight by most anyone. Kind of like if Lucas was a chef..............Bob

[Pfeil]

On 2/11/2020 at 2:21 PM, padgett said:

We have a class for garbage trucks (Ardun heads) ?

 

Is funny, at one time I generated an article outlining exactly how hard it was to make a car exactly "as it left the factory" (which factory/assembly plant, on what day). For example "on what day in the early 70s did GM 140 mph speedos switch to 120 and why ?

 

My feeling is that for some there is this glorified factory in the sky that could do no wrong when the actuality (I was in on the muscle car era) was often "whatever will keep the assembly lines rolling". One bin of alternators is empty, grab some from the other line. EPA finds something rong, slipstream in the fix. To be accurate just for Reattas (20,000 in five model years), I have about 10 feet of GM publications about half that are just TSBs (technical service bulletins) on changes during the model year. Barney has more.

 

Thanks to a few Pontiac employees who rescued microfilm slated for destruction we know how every Pontiac since 1959 was supposed to be built. Doubt that anyone judges to that level (when were FMVSS labels required ?) or is that what the club wants ? Would take about four hours to properly judge a car. I'd rather be driving.

 

 

 

 

 

Well I know what you mean about cars that left the factory different than production. My Dad's / later mine, 1959 Pontiac Catalina was one of those cars. The Catalina was built with a S/O tag next to the firewall vin plate though. A car that should have been built in South Gate Ca. that was purpose built in Mi. with a hand built blueprinted and balance 4 bolt main 389 built in the Pontiac tool room, those engines were destined for NASCAR recipients and drag racers. A heavy duty 4 speed Super HydraMatic. with a twist, A tri tone leather Bonneville interior. That would be a hard to explain car these days without some paperwork.

 

  I even had a hard time/ impossible time explaining my 69 H-O 355 LeMans that I special ordered in Nov. of 69. It seems that POCI judges wanted to put that car in a semi modified category at the POCI nationals back in 92 or 93. All because my LeMans came with a 140 MPH speedo! Apparently those cars ( Tempest, LeMans, GTO) were only supposed to come with a 120MPH speedo. I still have the car, and the dash has never been apart, but it's got a 140 MPH speedo. I found out at that show the only car in 1969 that has a 140 MPH speedo is the Grand Prix. I also found out the instruments/ clusters are identical to Tempest! Did the assembly line run out of 120 MPH speedo's? Anyroad I got shoved into semi Modified because of it and I have a copy of the sales order, the build sheet and the window sticker.   

  

Edited February 13, 2020 by Pfeil (see edit history)

[Steve Moskowitz]

I will just add that it is very hard to say"they never came that way".  I speak from experience as an Oldsmobile employee.  I not only saw things on the assembly line when I was in Lansing but when I was promoted to the field I got to pieces of communication that rarely made it into the sales literature.  First, there were service bulletins that went out to the mechanics.  These would be a treasure today but even more interesting is the engineering bulletins that went only to those of us working as field reps for Olds.  That information was not shared generally with the rest of the world.  As such, there are all sorts of explanations for some cars that have a true history but the car does not fit the standard knowledge of how that car was built.

 

You also have a whole bunch of cars that did have a code but you might not always have the info to go along with that.  These were cars for the various marketing groups like the "Gallant Men of Olds" in the Chicago area with GMO stickers, special tops, etc.  

[padgett]

Steve: we are in agreement (BTW a 69 Grand Prix gauge set had blue filters on the lights, easy to tell from Tempest/LeMans/GTO. ) GM in particular felt the build sheet was more of a "guideline" than biblical.

 

Once made the mistake of sending a rare blue filter GP tach to a gentleman on exchange. He sent back a GTO tach and refused to send mine back You would be amazed how many different hood tachs Delco made (including for Buick and AMC) and how many cars have a repop I can spot instantly.

 

Pick the year: (ps my Judge is now 50).

 

Edited February 14, 2020 by padgett (see edit history)

[John348]

10 hours ago, Terry Bond said:

Interesting analogy - ketchup on cardboard! 

Terry

 

I heard bad pizza called worse

[Ron Green]

11 hours ago, padgett said:

Steve: we are in agreement (BTW a 69 Grand Prix gauge set had blue filters on the lights, easy to tell from Tempest/LeMans/GTO. ) GM in particular felt the build sheet was more of a "guideline" than biblical.

 

Once made the mistake of sending a rare blue filter GP tach to a gentleman on exchange. He sent back a GTO tach and refused to send mine back You would be amazed how many different hood tachs Delco made (including for Buick and AMC) and how many cars have a repop I can spot instantly.

 

Pick the year: (ps my Judge is now 50).

 

 

Shifter handle on right is for 69 GTO (closed 4 plus a few other differences) and almost impossible to find one that the numbers are not wore down from use. Just tried to restore one with no luck from my brothers 69 judge (original owner) and judge #67 off the line.

[95Cardinal]

C Carl wrote: "Ever been to this pictured dog joint there in Chicago on Clark Street ? If "momma" is in the window, DO NOT EVEN THINK ABOUT TAKING YOUR CHILDREN IN THERE."

 

Carl,

Is that the place where you should never ask for a chocolate shake?

Joe

[95Cardinal]

15 hours ago, Steve Moskowitz said:

I will just add that it is very hard to say"they never came that way".  I speak from experience as an Oldsmobile employee.  I not only saw things on the assembly line when I was in Lansing but when I was promoted to the field I got to pieces of communication that rarely made it into the sales literature.  First, there were service bulletins that went out to the mechanics.  These would be a treasure today but even more interesting is the engineering bulletins that went only to those of us working as field reps for Olds.  That information was not shared generally with the rest of the world.  As such, there are all sorts of explanations for some cars that have a true history but the car does not fit the standard knowledge of how that car was built.

 

You also have a whole bunch of cars that did have a code but you might not always have the info to go along with that.  These were cars for the various marketing groups like the "Gallant Men of Olds" in the Chicago area with GMO stickers, special tops, etc.  

 

Steve, I have been making a similar speech about expert opinions for decades.

 

I spent a lot of time in manufacturing and assembly plants in my 32 years with GM and Tier 1 companies.

When I hear someone say "they were ALL built like this (fill in the blank), I just shake my head.

 

I have heard "experts" expound at length about fasteners, deadeners, frame markings, check marks and other details that just make me roll my eyes. If those experts ever spent more than one day watching different people - including break relief folks and trainees - on different shifts, install and adjust components on 5 different brands of vehicles coming through one assembly station, they wouldn't be so confident of their opinions.

 

When it comes to questions about how a vehicle might have been originally configured or what the quality or torque verification marks look like, I never say "never".

 

[Pfeil]

2 hours ago, 95Cardinal said:

 

Steve, I have been making a similar speech about expert opinions for decades.

 

I spent a lot of time in manufacturing and assembly plants in my 32 years with GM and Tier 1 companies.

When I hear someone say "they were ALL built like this (fill in the blank), I just shake my head.

 

I have heard "experts" expound at length about fasteners, deadeners, frame markings, check marks and other details that just make me roll my eyes. If those experts ever spent more than one day watching different people - including break relief folks and trainees - on different shifts, install and adjust components on 5 different brands of vehicles coming through one assembly station, they wouldn't be so confident of their opinions.

 

When it comes to questions about how a vehicle might have been originally configured or what the quality or torque verification marks look like, I never say "never".

 

 

I worked in automotive engineering for a manufacturer for 34 years and you are absolutely right " Never say never" ! and that's before you get to running changes, and after the fact TSB's and recalls. 

 

BTW this is also a 69 GTO shifter handle; 2nd column / bottom in which many Judge owners prefer.

Edited February 14, 2020 by Pfeil (see edit history)

[padgett]

You mean this one (correct) or the cloisonne (prettier).  And the second was a correct Tee handle for a GTO. Which one ?

 

The point I am making is that just knowing which shift knob (or tachometer) is correct for what (and being able to tell the repops - yes there were repops of the 4 speed tee handles, some even in plastic (ever grab a metal handle on a frozen morning ?)) is nearly impossible even for an egg-spurt. Is this the level of "originality" you want ? (and guess what happened if the correct bin was empty...) If so better bring the factory assembly manual with you. I suspect there are many who think their cars are 100% "as built. Surprise! And these are just the ones I know of which is a very small percentage of the hobby.

 

I've been enjoying cars (and devouring magazines many of which I still have) for over 60 years now. Have had a few turkeys along the way but not many and played with them all.