MrEarl

Is this the place for BCA political discussions

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Some recent club political oriented posts here in this General Discussion forum brought me to wonder... again ... "Is this the place for Club Politics to be discussed or can there be a Discussion Forum set up in the BCA website "Members Only Area" where such BCA business and political discussions as this can be held amongst Members so it is not hung out here in a public forum like dirty laundry for all, including possible future members to see. I can only imagine what newcomers to this forum might think about joining a club where there is this much continued bickering and ill will between individuals and divisions. I also suspect some of the decline in existing users here is due to the same. I know I don't come here near as much as I use to, partly because of all the complaining, pissin and moaning and negativity that went on during the last round of elections. I've never felt this is the place for  national  or BCA Club politics to be discussed. It is impossible for a Moderator to deal with some of the issues that need attention in these discussions without they themselves being misinterpreted or wrongly perceived and often times thrown under the bus for just trying to do their job. Ask me how I know THAT.  I am not saying these discussions are not beneficial, they are, and they often bring about needed change, I'm just askin is this the place for it. If it can even be done, a BCA website Members Only discussion forum could provide an alternative. Something for the BOD and website manager @Peter Gariepyto possibly discuss and consider? Maybe, maybe not......

 

and I'll just throw it out here for some preliminary discussion. or at least give it a "Like" if you agree it's worth considering or a "HaHa" if it's a crazy idea

 

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3 minutes ago, Peter Gariepy said:

No way to isolate just bca members. thats the problem.

 

 Thanks Peter. I understand that to be the problem with doing it here on the AACA site,  but could a simple Discussion Forum be established in the BCA Website "Members Only" area for it. Probably not easily nor without cost.

or are you saying non members would still manage to break in and post in the BCA site. ?

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6 hours ago, MrEarl said:

...so it is not hung out here in a public forum like dirty laundry for all, including possible future members to see....

Mr. Earl,

”Resentment”, as a friend of mine used to say, “Is like taking poison and waiting for the other person to die.” That’s not directed at you, but resentment has been a part of these discussions — and unchecked, it will kill the club. It’s effectively killed the PWD, or at least I will not have anything to do with it.


As a new member as of 2018 I can offer (with humor) this observation: While your concerns are in theory real and valid, they are totally unrealistic as they count on one thing — people having ANY interest in reading any of this stuff in the 1st place.


With the exception of me, I would suggest the chances of that are at about 0. The same with moving BOD minuets to the ‘members only’ section - a lot of effort for 0 reason. In fact you could actually pay an individual to read this stuff and I’d say there’s a 90% chance they’d skim it just enough to SAY they read it.

 

I read it. All of it (including the 2019 Audit which caused me to log into the BCA ‘Members Only’ section for the very 1st time today). Also read all BOD minutes back to 2017 - EIGHT HOURS WORTH OF READING. Why? 1) The kerfuffle you describe (which all started with the decision [no decision IS a decision] to NOT publish financials for THREE YEARS) confused me for some months. 2) I’m currently in the unique position of caring for an ill family member AND AM BORED OUT OF MY MIND.
 

If they did read it - they’d see the decision to not publish the yearly financials *edit - and it DOES appear there is some ‘there’ there* and a couple of opportunists who choose to hide behind anonymous internet handles who find some kind of power in accusing others of being ‘non members’ on the technicality that they once let their dues expire for a year (oooh wow).

 

At most they’d be educated - and be further reminded that people who hide behind anonymous internet handles on this website (i.e. containing no part of their given name) need to be ignored.

 

Or you could go through all the work if moving it all to ‘member’s only’ areas and create what - more suspicion which caused ALL of this?

Honestly, I see no danger in these ‘political discussions’ on this forum. I DO see danger in creating the appearance of trying to hide them. No one however, should be allowed to participate in any forum hiding behind an imaginary name. That allows human nature to become real uncivil. That must end. Can’t believe that has been allowed to go on. Internet 101.

 

Good luck,

Ben P.

BCA #49995

 

P.S. Kinda like my good amount of writing here - skimmed it didn’t ya. Some things are best hidden in plain sight. If anyone did read all of this you really need to PM me so I can go buy a lottery ticket tonight. I’ve never had that happen before.... 🙂

Edited by Ben P.
Typo/Info (see edit history)
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LOL, well, I have some lottery tickets to buy....

 

Said elsewhere, but worth repeating: This club is more important today than it ever was in the past. The gentleman who restored my particular car 52 years ago grew up working on pre-1920 cars. His involvement in the BCA and AACA was strictly social - he didn’t NEED it.

Had I gotten this car 20 some years ago I wouldn’t’ve needed the club either - I would’ve taken any questions to either of my grandfather’s who both remembered cars of this era. Today, that generation is gone and that knowledge now exists only within these clubs.

 

Without it I’d be re-inventing the wheel on every little thing (that water-pump and the graphite wick nearly killed me) and there just aren’t hours in the day... It would have been impractical for me to keep it.
In other words, thank you to the forum moderators and board members who keep all us nuts together. Human nature is human nature. There’s going to be conflict, suspicion, and all the rest - but nothing should be hidden. Your work is important and valued.

Ben P.

 

Edited by Ben P.
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Ben,

If I could reach through this computer I'd give you a big ol' hug and a sloppy kiss (well, not really on the kiss part) for putting in print what a lot of us feel about people hiding behind a moniker.  For a person to hide behind a moniker is rude, suspicious, and folks wonder just what they are hiding from and who.  In my thinking, anyone who does not post their real name has no credibility for anything that they say or post.  That's just the way it is.  Thanks again Ben for putting it out there like it is.

 

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas

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8 hours ago, Peter Gariepy said:

No way to isolate just bca members. thats the problem

The Riviera Owners Association prints the password to their members-only forum section in their magazine. That way, only those who are members or who get courtesy copies of the magazine have the access code. I'm sure it's not entirely fool-proof, since members can hand off their magazines to a non-member, but it seems like a good system to me. And to prevent those who don't renew their membership from continued members-only access, the ROA changes the password every few months in their subsequent magazines. Not high-tech, but seems like a pretty good solution to the problem, if you ask me.

Pete Phillips, BCA #7338

Leonard, TX.

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15 minutes ago, Pete Phillips said:

The Riviera Owners Association prints the password to their members-only forum section in their magazine. That way, only those who are members or who get courtesy copies of the magazine have the access code. I'm sure it's not entirely fool-proof, since members can hand off their magazines to a non-member, but it seems like a good system to me. And to prevent those who don't renew their membership from continued members-only access, the ROA changes the password every few months in their subsequent magazines. Not high-tech, but seems like a pretty good solution to the problem, if you ask me.

Pete Phillips, BCA #7338

Leonard, TX.

 

The the forum here on the AACA forums. 

 

Yes, we can put a password on a forum. But it's going to have limited security.  However, before I create a "BCA website Members Only discussion" I'd like to hear from the BCA Board they actually want it.

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I’ve always been fascinated that any car club would air dirty laundry on a public forum.

 

The damage done is huge.  If I were a new guy, have an old Buick, and looking for a club to join...do you really think I’d pursue membership in the club that’s fighting amongst itself on this forum?

 

I do have an old Buick, 1910 Model 16, but have found with many clubs the early cars are pretty much ignored.  I had a 1910 Hudson, joined the club, only to find if you didn’t have a step down then not much respect nor information.

 

To the Buick club, stay on AACA forum for information, but if you want to discuss crappy leadership or personal biases, go somewhere else.  Doing so here casts a very dark shadow on your club.

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How or who is the determinant of what is "political?"  

 

I responded to a question from a forum and BCA member regarding how the club can be losing members when he sees 75 to 100 new member names each month.  I made no accusations against any BOD member.  I made no accusation toward any BCA member.   

 

The group that won the election won it with more support from BCA members than the group I was aligned with.  I believe the changes and actions they have made since the contentious election are fine.  They ran on the concepts of appointments.  I think if a BCA member new or old wants to enjoy the club, they will find ways.  

 

When you win as decisively as that group did, you should be able to appoint whoever you want.   I just respectfully questioned membership retention management, since all BOD candidates run on the concept of growing membership.  

 

I'm for a membership only section for political discussions.  

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Well, as they say, curiosity just killed the cat. I’d delete my prior posts, but they were commented on - so I won’t.


Since the meeting minutes as recorded omitted a great deal of discussion as it actually occurred, I was misinformed. Greatly.


Had those minutes come close to reflecting what actually went on, and books complete, nothing publicly would have had to have been said.

That’s all I care to say on this from here on out.

There’s a car I’ve waited my entire life to enjoy....

Edited by Ben P.
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As there is already a Members Only section, pass-worded of sorts, where the e-BUGLE resides, why not put the Discussion Forum there?

 

ONE possible issue with the Members Only General Discussion Forum is that it would probably only see participation by those who 'had something to talk about".  End result is that the desired audience would not be there.  Only those who were talking about something.  Not the bigger audience of the general membership who come to the AACA-hosted Buick Club forums.  Which can be good and not-so-good.  NOR will it reach every BCA member who might care or have an interest in what was being discussed.

 

In the prior "cycles" of "news", I invested far too much time with posters (in posts and in PMs) with people who had their mind already made up, even if they might be more recent BCA members.  Don't need to do that again!  Don't plan on it, either!

 

MUCH better to keep the soap in the washing machines, dirty laundry washed, dried, and folded in the dresser drawers . . . for ALL involved.  No fun in that for some?

 

There used to be a Members Only forum for the BCA Chapter Directors to exchange information.  After an initial flurry of activity, it flat-lined.

 

Enjoy!

Willis Bell 20811

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Do i think this is the place for political club issues basically in public?    NO

Do i think it should be in a private type forum?    YES

Do i think it will work?     PROBABLY NOT

i believe that sometimes the people that are posting some of this (NOT ALL) want a public forum

if they wanted to try to solve problems they could call the higher ups or maybe they don't want a one on one

get involved with a chapter and see how that works (THEY MIGHT BE) work with the system talk to your chapter board

I like having my "handle"  on my comments but if you log in you can see my info I don't hide just want the people

who are really part of this to see my info NOT TROLLS

Many good comments above, now you have mine

sorry about a bit of the New York attitude

Lamar hope this helps

Marty   

 

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this crap is majking me seriously consider not renewing my bca membership, i dont need this crap in my lfe.

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15 hours ago, MRJBUICK said:

Do i think this is the place for political club issues basically in public?    NO

Do i think it should be in a private type forum?    YES

Do i think it will work?     PROBABLY NOT

i believe that sometimes the people that are posting some of this (NOT ALL) want a public forum

if they wanted to try to solve problems they could call the higher ups or maybe they don't want a one on one

get involved with a chapter and see how that works (THEY MIGHT BE) work with the system talk to your chapter board

I like having my "handle"  on my comments but if you log in you can see my info I don't hide just want the people

who are really part of this to see my info NOT TROLLS

Many good comments above, now you have mine

sorry about a bit of the New York attitude

Lamar hope this helps

Marty   

 

Lol, “talk to your chapter board”. The chapters are all but forgotten and rarely listened to except for a few of the more prominent chapters. Might be different now with new office but used to be info and opinions  gathered from chapter directors was squelched and buried at the office level before it could ever reach the board.

A closed forum where issues can be discussed in real time is a great idea,  people don’t play the mail, email and phone game anymore.  Every board member should be required to be regular visitors to a closed forum, it’s actually sad the number of board members that ignore the forums, mostly because they don’t care to hear anything other than what they want to hear. 

Edited by Y-JobFan (see edit history)

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6 hours ago, ted sweet said:

this crap is majking me seriously consider not renewing my bca membership, i dont need this crap in my lfe.

 

 I understand, Ted. I have had the same thoughts. Don't let it get to you.  EVERY group, EVERY ONE has the problem of discontent.  Does not mean the dis contend are right or wrong. Put 8 or 10 folks at the dinner table , serve up the filet minion, and set back and listen.   Makes one wish for hamburger.  O crap, now we have to argue over grilled or fried!!   Another beer, anyone. ?

 

  Ben

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This thread is a prime example of why I will never (likely) get involved with running a club again.  My blood pressure and anxiety thanks me for stepping back.  To those who want to cut ties with the club after seeing posts like this - there will always be discontent.  You have to ask yourself - "Amy I enjoying my membership to this club?"  At the end of the day, the club is as fun or enjoyable as you MAKE it.  Get involved with a local chapter if you have one close by.  Go to the meetings.  Attend one of the events they host.  Forget the politics....that aspect will always be there.  Focus your attention to what gives you joy.

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1 hour ago, Smartin said:

This thread is a prime example of why I will never (likely) get involved with running a club again.  My blood pressure and anxiety thanks me for stepping back.  To those who want to cut ties with the club after seeing posts like this - there will always be discontent.  You have to ask yourself - "Amy I enjoying my membership to this club?"  At the end of the day, the club is as fun or enjoyable as you MAKE it.  Get involved with a local chapter if you have one close by.  Go to the meetings.  Attend one of the events they host.  Forget the politics....that aspect will always be there.  Focus your attention to what gives you joy.

AMEN!!  I agree with you Adam.  Have to drag me kicking and screaming!  And yes, like you, I've been asked to throw a hat into the ring.  No way.

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I said I didn’t care to say anything on this from here on out — and I won’t.

But later comments cause me to clarify:

Nothing I learned caused me to quit the club.

Nothing I learned caused me to lose enjoyment of my car or what I get out of this club.

Nothing.
What I did learn was: When necessary, good people stood up.

That’s it. 

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4 hours ago, Ben Bruce aka First Born said:

I agree, Adam.

 

  Now for some REAL  stuff.  The last REAL Buick was the 1953 Special.😉

 

  Ben

 

Oh Boy!  That will be an interesting discussion!  😬

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4 hours ago, Ben Bruce aka First Born said:

I agree, Adam.

 

  Now for some REAL  stuff.  The last REAL Buick was the 1953 Special.😉

 

  Ben


oh really!? 

I’m out of here! If everybody here can’t agree that 1954 was the last real Buick and also the most classiest ever, then you’re  all just a bunch of nimkapoops! 

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54? Come on! Those things are ancient. 🙃

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I agree with Marty  - MrJBuick . We both are members of  the Long Island Chapter. He much longer then I have been as I only joined the BCA and the Long Island Chapter after I bought my 1940 Roadmaster about a decade ago. My perspective is from someone who owns a variety of cars , mostly pre war, and from the perspective as well of an author and historian.

I have belonged to a lot of clubs , joined AACA in 1965, CCCA ( 1972-2017) Franklin Club ( 1965-2010 or so) and was active in the Society of Automotive Historians on many levels as well. I am not of the type to join something and then sit back and be entertained or complain that there is something happening I do not like but never make an effort to take the time to help out. We all have our limits of patience, I understand and appreciate and accept that. In the time I have been in the L.I. Chapter of the BCA I have seen and known several sets of officers/directors - did not agree every time with everything they did BUT they are the nicest most caring group of car collectors that I have on a whole, ever met.

Read the last lines that Marty leaves us with - no truer words can be said , I agree completely:

 

No Matter how the day has been, 

every time i open the door to my garage

the day just gets better,

and I thank God for my Family and my Life !

Edited by Walt G
clarification & typo (see edit history)
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