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auburnseeker
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I followed the 1931 Auburn Phaeton that friends and I did to its first show - I/we do not know what happened at restoration shop helping us, but let's just say "wobbly legs" -  all the wheels came off the next day and went down to Dayton Wire Wheel.  The next fellow did not like them painted though and now they are chrome. 

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8 minutes ago, auburnseeker said:

I have a local powder guy that has done a bunch of work for me so he will probably get them.  I just know he lays it on heavy so I didn't know if there were issues if it was too thick. 

Only issue is that it eliminates spoke adjustment ability, but unless you have new stainless spokes and nipples you really cannot ever adjust one anyway (slightest bit of rust on a spoke or nipple eliminates adjustment ability). 

 

And, he needs to NOT lay it on think as to the hub mounting points - otherwise you will be hand filing paint off for many hours.

Edited by John_Mereness (see edit history)
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I typically lean towards powdercoating, but I think on wire wheels paint is often a better choice. One, there's the adjustability factor that John mentioned and it might be good to be able to true the wheels in the future. Related to that is two, which is the ability to touch them up if needed. Spoke wheels may flex more than disc wheels and while powder is very flexible, the joint where the spokes meet the hub and/or rim might see some motion that the powder can't cover. That might be a touch-up point where paint would be superior. Adding a flex agent to the paint can certainly help too.


Given how gently these cars are used, anything will last many, many years. Paint will probably cost a bit more initially but I think on a spoke wheel it's easier to keep in top condition. You also get a greater variety of color choices, which could be important if you're trying to find a burgundy that works with the yellow.

 

And as long as you're peeling the tires off for refinishing, you may as well replace the tires. I doubt they'll survive the dismount process anyway. The 30-year-old Lesters on my '29 Cadillac required a Sawzall to get them off the rim. Do the chrome trim ring and blackwall tires and it'll look awesome and you'll save a few bucks. Once you get some good outdoor photos of the car, send them to me and I can do some Photoshop mock-ups for you. I did this to experiment with trim rings and blackwalls on the Lincoln (which I'd like to do if I can find some chrome trim rings to keep it from looking--as you correctly described it--like a Nazi staff car):

 

Blackwalls1a.thumb.jpg.48fd949c2ba801f46c433b2ef7b9f00f.jpg  Blackwalls1.thumb.jpg.cad304ebeca43d9e8c056b10c5f4fa81.jpg

 

As far as the two-speed, I drove those two Auburn convertible sedans--the burgundy one had a 2-speed rear, the gold one did not. My seat-of-the-pants impression is that the 2-speed's high range was noticeably higher than the standard ratio in the gold car. Low range was borderline unusable--top speed was about 32 MPH, but the thing would crawl along at barely a walking pace in 1st gear at idle, so maybe OK for parades. As others have mentioned, if the burgundy car were mine I doubt I'd ever use low range for anything and I don't really know why anyone would except maybe around town on dirt roads when they didn't feel like shifting. But the high range did make it a more comfortable cruiser at, say, 55 MPH.

 

As far as the Gear Vendors, the unit itself is like $3200. Very expensive. However, it's also bulletproof and doesn't have any of the shortcomings of the slightly cheaper Borg-Warner unit like the one in my Cadillac. The fact that the Auburn is an open driveshaft makes installation very easy--just make a simple subframe to hold the overdrive and two short driveshafts to connect it. 100% reversible, unlike a torque tube installation, and you can do it at home once you have the driveshafts made. I am investigating Gear Vendors units to 1) replace the buggered BW unit in my '29 Cadillac if possible, and 2) install in the '35 Lincoln's torque tube. I'm a fan, I like that they're reliable, and an overdrive really does transform an early car into a comfortable cruiser. It's not necessarily about more speed, but my '29 Cadillac went from being frantic at 48 MPH to almost silent at 55. I can't over-state how big a difference it is in terms of driving comfort and peace of mind. And even at that price, it may yet be cheaper than finding, restoring, and installing an original 2-speed rear end.

 

Hope this helps!

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This is great......we already have Randy"s car figured out for him.......hey Randy.......hurry up and finish it.......I'm starting to look for another for you this weekend! 🤪

 

Wanna bet how much Randy's better half hates me now..........and we haven't even met. 😎

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I'm sure I can squeeze one more in the garage somehow.  Now financing it might be a tougher problem but well cross that bridge when we come to it.

What are you thinking.  More than 8 cylinders this time? 

Maybe a Stutz would be fun. 😉 

 

The wife finds you mildly amusing so far. 🙂 

All my old men friends that stop by to talk shop are afraid of her though so maybe she's warming up to you?

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1 hour ago, auburnseeker said:

I'm sure I can squeeze one more in the garage somehow.  Now financing it might be a tougher problem but well cross that bridge when we come to it.

What are you thinking.  More than 8 cylinders this time? 

Maybe a Stutz would be fun. 😉 

 

The wife finds you mildly amusing so far. 🙂 

All my old men friends that stop by to talk shop are afraid of her though so maybe she's warming up to you?


Only mildly amusing? Shoot......I was looking for a higher rating. I should explain to her how my father added cars to our collection......every new car meant a new piece of jewelry my mother...........after a few cars, she looked forward to our trips to buy another car. True story!  Getting you a Stutz is no problem.........let me know if you want a SV-16 or a DV-32. Maybe something in a one off body style? Maybe a nice Pierce 12..........so many options........just get the shed done ASAP.

Edited by edinmass (see edit history)
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Actually I have to find something better to bribe the wife with.  She doesn't like it when I buy her Jewelry.  

Custom body would be nice but it has to be attractive.  No big sedans with top hat room or Pope mobiles. 

Too cold to work on the shed right now so I'll make the sacrifice and work on the Auburn instead. 

Snow to deal with today,  now freezing rain and some chores to make the wife Happy so I didn't get anything new done on Victoria after plowing.  Hopefully I'll have some time tomorrow,  though we are suppose to get another 4-8 inches. 

See the fun you are missing.

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19 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:

And as long as you're peeling the tires off for refinishing, you may as well replace the tires. 

Matt, the Martins are a little different story - I am not sure when they stopped making them, but it was probably in the 1960's - I do know my first Hemmings was 1972 (and I saved) and there is no Martins available in that.  Anyway, I have taken a few sets off now and my impression is dry rotted and fairly easy to get off. I did spend nearly a day a piece dynamiting a pair of Lesters from 1974ish off the sidemounts of the Rolls Royce - used C-clamps as dad has a collection of really large c-clamps and recently a something or other I spent some careful time with my sawzaw and then cut the bead off with my dremel/moto tool - not fun.).  Regarding the Martin's for the 1941 Packard Darrin, we were highway driving it for a number of years, but when we took off the tires the beads had actually about 3/4 separated from the sidewall and lots of "dust" - that was sort of an "oh s..t" eye awakening.   At ACD Festival maybe 6 years back, a good friend had just pulled in from the Hoosier tour and on his L-29 in the sidemount was a Martin with a huge chunk of tread missing.   They are cool tires though and for a Museum DISPLAY they look great - why our friend should sell them if they survive dismounting. 

 

I will try to post a photo as a similar color combo Auburn Phaeton with blackwalls - personally I still preach flashy cars for flashy people.

 

Matt, You need 17" deep trim rings or 16" deep trim rings ?

 

Agreeing with all the comments about too thick of powder coat - my guy must be cheap as if anything he puts it on too thin (periodically I notice under really bright lights)

 

Oh yeah, this is a favorite photo - 1932 Packard Twin Six - the car sat just fine with zero air in tires and I want to say they were 10 ply.  I called Grismere Tire and asked then to send out their best truck tire guy - he was a trouper. 

 

post-42000-143138073345.thumb.jpg.2db797f992de407c9022ade735ca9cc3.jpg

 

Edited by John_Mereness (see edit history)
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This photo is somewhat significant as the car features a more rounded non-traditional trunk on the rack - usually found more on 1933 salon cars, yet it is on a 1931.  The reason why i call it out is that you actually stand a chance of finding this trunk verses the traditional Auburn trunk which tends to be near unobtainium. 

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I'll keep an eye out for a trunk.   I did a few random craigslist searches but they didn't turn up any trunks worth considering.  

Do Auburn Trunks actually have Auburn anywhere on them?  Still not sure on black or whitewalls.  I've seen alot of old photos of Auburns that actually had whitewalls on them when new so it wouldn't be like putting them on a Ford. 

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26 minutes ago, auburnseeker said:

I'll keep an eye out for a trunk.   I did a few random craigslist searches but they didn't turn up any trunks worth considering.  

Do Auburn Trunks actually have Auburn anywhere on them?  Still not sure on black or whitewalls.  I've seen alot of old photos of Auburns that actually had whitewalls on them when new so it wouldn't be like putting them on a Ford. 

The traditional Auburn trunk that you see on the "gold/cream" car Matt sent pictures of is an Auburn only trunk and the hardware interchanges with Cord - they are near unobtainium and have been for 40 plus years - with a long line of people looking too. I want to say when all said and done too I bet I had 2K in purchase and 4K in restoration in the trunk for the 1931 - and that was in the late 80's.   They are Potter brand I believe.   I personally, would be considering the more rounded trunk like the car in the photo - you stand a better chance.  The size "rack size" does fit other cars.

 

Bradsan is correct-  they do not say Auburn on them -

 

Trunk = it an Auburn specific look of the trunk matched to very specific hardware thing.

 

I usually tell people with 30's cars with racks to get trunks as the cars really have crappy storage for being so large.

 

I have actually thought about reproducing them.

Edited by John_Mereness (see edit history)
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Good to know.  I have something to go on now.  I do know one thing with car trunks,  lots of people saved them,  few probably even remember what they came off.  It might be a slim chance to find one,  but with the generations passing on and kids cleaning out you never know.  I had someone give me a set of sidemount covers this summer, they were cleaning out their Mother's place and didn't know what to do with them and it was actually the person they gave them to that gave them to me.  I had no idea what they fit until I tried them on the Auburn and i may have a match.  I have to pull one of the spares out and try the outer rings but the face plates look correct,  there is just no way they would fit over those Martins. 

I know at all kinds of estate sales and auctions people have a tough time selling things like car trunks.  Younger generations don't want old car parts and kids are cleaning out.  They are worth alot to the right guy but to everyone else they are something big to haul around and get rid of.  The only good thing is they make good storage which is why I think so many still survive. 

The trunk on the car is in poor shape inside anyways and even has some rust bubbles coming through so it needs to be replaced at some point.

 

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On ‎2‎/‎5‎/‎2020 at 8:25 PM, Matt Harwood said:

Perfection is grossly overrated. Scratches and old paint mean you won't ever hesitate to get in, turn the key, and DRIVE. Isn't that what these machines are designed to do?

Ah, yes that is why I will probably not restore my Mom's 67 RS Camaro Convt that has lots of big door dings and some rust. My wife takes it out sometimes with her girl friends for dinner or concerts and I don't worry about what might happen in the parking lot. It has new rubber, brakes etc and is ready to drive anywhere. It is also our go to if rain is predicted on tour day as it has a newer top. Same deal with my 36 Ford Phaeton when I get it running again. 

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On 2/6/2020 at 1:36 PM, auburnseeker said:

If i decide to powder I will make sure he lays it on thin on the contact points.  I know he did a set of 48 plymouth rims for me and I had to file the center holes for the hub out.   With those dental drive wheels that would be crazy to file all that out. 

 

 

I'll never understand powder coating on adjustable spoke wheels, but it is your car so good luck. Bob 

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Others members said the chance of being able to adjust them now is slim to none with most likely some rust on the threads. Also I wouldn't think a rim that old would need much adjustment.  Should have been adjusted properly by now I would think.  I still haven't decided which route.  I have lots of time to still figure out which would be better. 

Nothing done on Victoria today.  We had a bad ice storm followed by 8 inches of snow.  Trees and limbs down everywhere. We lost power and I was bracing for a cold night. Fortunately it came on just a little while ago when I was finishing plowing.  What normally cane be done in 1.5 to 2 hours took 4.   What a mess.  Good thing they delivered Victoria Last weekend. 

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Randy......don’t fret about the weather, snow, and downed power lines............I took the JN out for a spin this afternoon........it was 79 degrees and partly sunny.............I think Victoria would like to visit down here a few months of the year. Come on down! Photo of a bird that likes to play with my dog.

40B91115-4A1A-4F0D-AD33-4850D42D04A3.jpeg

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We call him Big Bird..........my dog Haggis likes chicken wings............not sure if he would want hot sauce on his Big Bird.

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3 hours ago, edinmass said:

Randy......don’t fret about the weather, snow, and downed power lines............I took the JN out for a spin this afternoon........it was 79 degrees and partly sunny.............I think Victoria would like to visit down here a few months of the year. Come on down! Photo of a bird that likes to play with my dog.

40B91115-4A1A-4F0D-AD33-4850D42D04A3.jpeg

 

 

Have you named the bird Hisso or Hispano? Haggis is a great name for a Scottie, we lost Travis two weeks ago, sure is an empty house without him. Bob 

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16 hours ago, auburnseeker said:

Others members said the chance of being able to adjust them now is slim to none with most likely some rust on the threads. Also I wouldn't think a rim that old would need much adjustment.  Should have been adjusted properly by now I would think.  I still haven't decided which route.  I have lots of time to still figure out which would be better. 

Nothing done on Victoria today.  We had a bad ice storm followed by 8 inches of snow.  Trees and limbs down everywhere. We lost power and I was bracing for a cold night. Fortunately it came on just a little while ago when I was finishing plowing.  What normally cane be done in 1.5 to 2 hours took 4.   What a mess.  Good thing they delivered Victoria Last weekend. 

 After first time a wire wheel gets wet you probably loose the spoke adjustment via rust in nipples.  

 

As to rims needing adjustment - my experience is the two wheels in the sidemounts are bent and the right rear wheel is just about the same (you cannot see out of the cars well and does not take much of a curb bump to get them off true).  I most of the time just repaint and make do, but have had to have a few respoked as just no other alternative. 

Edited by John_Mereness (see edit history)
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This is "Shadow" and he is an Airedale - he is 2 today and we have been through countless food issues (he now eats Kangaroo), a few skin issues, the hardwood splinter up through his gum into brain sack (did not know that was even possible), roughed up rear toes/pads (he can fly at leaps probably 10' to 12'), and most recently the sock and the glove eating incident.  He did not fail dog training - he actually aced it 100%, but he is pretty strong willed and  really does not care.  Incredibly loyal, but also incredibly independent.  He has Cat's, Squirrel, Rabbit, and Deer on the brain.  Motivated by treats - or just wants the treat and that is all you get from him.  Had to be fixed - and for good reason(s).   Does not shed and mostly oder free.  We have the "hole of defiance" in the yard. Cannot resist sticking nose down any hole outside and if smells good enough we dig.    Typical Terrier - just a really big one. 

 

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Edited by John_Mereness (see edit history)
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On plating lock rings, I've been told (no personal experience) to be sure to request a special process to prevent "hydrogen embrittlement," which can cause a lock ring to break and leave the wheel at speed.  Does anyone have any further information on this?

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You can subtract 6-8" as she is standing on the curb and the car is on the road but she is still tall.  As a side note the rear door handle is already worn and sagging and the picture was taken when the car was not that old.  Nice blackwall tires.

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20 hours ago, 1937hd45 said:

57048998_386062182119501_5775066945221033984_n.thumb.jpg.4fbeb552d6c8dc0a292f58ab61de4773.jpg

I Know the car looks like it has a chopped top stock, but is that gal on the tall side? Bob 

Standard top (they actually are about 1.5" lower in the glass area than an 850/851/852- she is on the taller side and also standing on the curbing - if she was standing next to the car on street level, you would probably say she was 5'10"

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21 hours ago, Grimy said:

On plating lock rings, I've been told (no personal experience) to be sure to request a special process to prevent "hydrogen embrittlement," which can cause a lock ring to break and leave the wheel at speed.  Does anyone have any further information on this?

Near impossible to find anyone to do, but they are pretty heavy chunks of steel and never had a problem.  I am not sure how Dayton Wire Wheel handles their new construction wire wheels, but I have had them do my lock rings and also any chrome plated wheel restoration work or respoking/truing needed and they are always improving/changing processes and ...  - I often do my own handwork/sanding though (Dayton-Cincinnati and ... = small World around here and we all know each other - nice folks). 

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21 hours ago, 1937hd45 said:

I just can't get the image of the guy in a grease pit washing the inside of double white walls out of my head, must have been a special type of hell. Bob   

As an 18 year old kid,  there are alot worse jobs many of us have done than that.  Someone told me before that Kerosene works really good to clean white wall tires.  Never tried it,  but some rags and wipe the whitewalls,  might be a whole lot better than cleaning the restroom. 

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Ahh the joys of working in a gas station at 18.  Yep restrooms, grease trap under the floor in the back office was pretty bad, as well.  Cleaning the garage floors with that magic green stuff (if youve used it, you know what I mean, a powdery soap) and broom not too bad, and dipping the tanks at the end of the night was actually kind of fun.  When it was slow we polished the pumps and cleaned a lot of glass, oh, and we sat around, a lot! 😊

 

No auburns came in that I can recall.

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