Help needed to estimate insurance value '30 and '32 Cadillac

[Johan Boltendal]

Hi , perhaps you can be of help getting my insurance value wher I think it should be. Market value is of no interest because I don't want to sell and they will stay with my children and grandchildren, when I'm gone.No doubt about this.

Over here in the Netherlands we have an insurance system that works with appraisers to set a value on an object. Till now never a serious problem. Needed a new appraisal for both and the trouble started, terms like market prewar is

down and low, getting lower, buyers wanting these cars are less and less etc etc. Trying to make them clear, that this has nothing to do with insurance value, fell on deaf ears. ( the appraisers that were in the know are no longer around )

We insure the value of a car in the Netherlands as follows, object loss or gone, money received must allow you to buy a likewise car in the same condition, the week thereafter. Assuming the lost cars are to be bought then and there. 

Cars I'm talking about ;

1930 Cadillac 353 7p limo imported to the Netherlands early 1930 documented from new till now in my possession for 50 years . Restored in the 70s and 80 s maintained since then, with an trans,  rear axle, radiator and engine overhaul in 2018

New brakes, new wheels and tires, restored springs ,shocks and steering gear 2019 A very nice driver (3 to 4000 mile per year)with an excellent interior ,chrome and paint.

 

1932 Cadillac 355B AWP 46000 original miles in my possession since 2001,documented from new , restored from 2007 to 2014 to a car as it left the factory in '32 , specs after the build sheet, condition also new or better then new. 

we do not know the point system as you have but it scored two 10's ( best you can get)and best of show from 400 in 2018 driven a 100 miles since that moment, air conditioned storage for both cars .

The restoration of the '32 is on the restoration forum .

 

Please let me know if you have an opinion on the value of said cars. Thank you very much.  Johan

 

[mercer09]

why do you not try and contact a company like CHUBB?

 

somebody with an international presence that understands.

[John_Mereness]

The 32 looks great with the top down !

[Trulyvintage]

Current Market Value has bearing because that is where the replacement vehicle would be found in the event of total loss.

 

Your current market would be The Netherlands and whatever surrounding countries are deemed acceptable by the company you choose to insure with.

 

Unless that market includes the US - whatever you find here does not apply.

 

” Agreed Upon Value “ is the type of collector car insurance many favor here because you are buying a dollar amount of coverage for your premium.

 

 

Jim

[viv w]

Insurance companies are not interested in sentimental value and will always try and squirm out of paying, by telling you it is under insured, so they will pay you pro rata or say the wreck is still worth the insured value, so they owe you nothing.

 Best thing to do is get hold of a decent insurance broker, that will work with you on a written agreed value. Then make sure your insurance contract has a clause in it, giving you first option to the right of salvage. So if the car is written off, you have the rights to buy the wreck and restore it if you wish.

 If the Dutch companies do not want to be fair with you, then try companies like LLoyds in London, or maybe even Haggerty. 

 I had a Belgian guy working here in Zimbabwe and he insured his modern Volvo with Lloyds, and he had a couple of mishaps, they promptly paid his claims.

Viv.

[Johan Boltendal]

Thanks to all that responded in a way. I've learned now that wanting to know something , put this in a question and to try to get an answer that fits the question,

as in this situation " any one has an idea about the value of said cars" is much tougher, then I had anticipated. In fact I didn't get any.

The ideas of insurance companies and leads  are certainly appreciated and I will follow the Chubb and Lloyds suggestion.

I do not have sentimental ideas or thoughts of value, tried to make clear  the status and the condition the cars are in .

Just wanted to compare my valuation thoughts (the money needed to buy the same cars again)  with you knowledgeable people on this forum. 

Again many thanks to those members who took the time to reply . Johan

[mercer09]

Hi Johan,

 

think everyone is afraid to give you a price, because the old car market here has been volitle.

on another thread here is a discussion of a packard phaeton in green. Most thought it would bring 100-150k at auction.

it brought 56k.............. most everyone couldnt believe it. this is why you are not getting any concrete info.

 

I am sure you will want to hear a high number, but in todays market, that may not be so.

Edited February 3, 2020 by mercer09 (see edit history)

[TTR]

Johan,

 

To my understanding, most of the "value guides", including those by used insurance industry (and their appraisers), at least in the U.S. are largely based on public auction results, regardless whether those "results" are or were actual sales or just "alleged" high bids (reported by the auction companies and therefor may not be real). 

For example, one such "guide" is produced by N.A.D.A. and they seem to suggest a value of your 7P being around $40K -$60K and your Phaeton maybe around $100K-$140K.

What you, I or other members of this forum think of their values or costs involving restoration, etc is likely irrelevant to your or most insurance carriers.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 4, 2020 by TTR (see edit history)

[C Carl]

Yes, Mercer' makes a very good point. But somebody has to make a start. "........... a likewise car in the same condition,  the week thereafter".          That would be extremely difficult.    What would you think about $90 - 95,000 for the '30, $160 - 175,000 for the '32. Add another $50 - 75,000 for a one week purchase. O.K. I started it, now let's kick it around.   We are talking about insurance purposes here.     -    Carl 

[TTR]

1 hour ago, C Carl said:

Yes, Mercer' makes a very good point. But somebody has to make a start. "........... a likewise car in the same condition,  the week thereafter".          That would be extremely difficult.    What would you think about $90 - 95,000 for the '30, $160 - 175,000 for the '32. Add another $50 - 75,000 for a one week purchase. O.K. I started it, now let's kick it around.   We are talking about insurance purposes here.     -    Carl 

With all due respect, Carl, please see my comment above. Johans insurance carrier may not (and likely don't) care what numbers we kick around here.

They may be (and likely are) basing their appraisals/assessments on same or similar data as used by U.S. carriers and in the end he might just face an ultimatum "accept our terms or we won't write a policy".

 

Just yesterday, some one asked me what value or worth I consider one of my cars I've owned several decades to be and I offered my usual answer "I don't know nor care and while it's insured at "agreed value" much higher than most or perhaps anyone would be willing to pay for it, I definitely wouldn't consider selling it for that amount should somebody make a such offer".

Edited February 4, 2020 by TTR (see edit history)

[C Carl]

1 hour ago, TTR said:

Johans insurance carrier may not (and likely don't) care what numbers we kick around here.

 

 

4 hours ago, Johan Boltendal said:

. I've learned now that wanting to know something , put this in a question and to try to get an answer that fits the question,

as in this situation " any one has an idea about the value of said cars" is much tougher, then I had anticipated. In fact I didn't get any.

 

Just wanted to compare my valuation thoughts (the money needed to buy the same cars again)  with you knowledgeable people on this forum. 

 

 

Therefore, whether the insurance carrier cares what we say here is not the point. The point is that Johan is trying to define "(the money needed to buy the same cars again)". Call it "replacement cost" if you like. Now replacement cost "the week thereafter" is another matter entirely. Perhaps agreed value would be the best solution in the end. I expect these cars are more valuable in Europe than they are in the U.S. 

 

I have tried to Jumpstart the answer to the question that Johan has asked. RSVP, all ye who read this topic.   -    Carl 

 

P.S.    JOHAN, WE CAN GIVE YOU A MORE ACCURATE ESTIMATE IF YOU PROVIDE INTERIOR AND ENGINE PICTURES.   Besides, we would love to see such pictures as an end in itself. That '32 is absolutely EXQUISITE  !!!!!   I am very pleased to see that your family plans to treasure your cars for generations !    -    CC 

[TTR]

Sorry about that Carl.

All this is likely due to fact that I dropped out of school the day I turned 16 and having never received single moment of formal education (spoken or written) for English language, but after reading his initial post,

 

"... help getting my insurance value wher I think it should be.

Market value is of no interest  (????)...

Needed a new appraisal for both and the trouble started, terms like market prewar is

down and low, getting lower, ... 

Trying to make them clear, that this has nothing to do with insurance value (????), fell on deaf ears. ( the appraisers that were in the know are no longer around )...

We insure the value of a car ... 

Cars I'm talking about ;

1930 Cadillac 353 7p...

1932 Cadillac 355B AWP...

...if you have an opinion (????) on the value of said cars."

 

I just thought, perhaps inaccurately, Johans enquiry was an attempt to establish and/or provide some "proof"(?) to counter the (low?) value appraisals/estimates by his insurance company. 

So it appears it might be best to keep my opinions just to myself.

Edited February 4, 2020 by TTR (see edit history)

[Johan Boltendal]

Carl is giving the idea the right response  , that is what I'm after . I have no plans of ever making use of this insurance value to replace, but one never knows what can happen.

The value in Europe and the US is about equal for these cars. The agreed value is not used with insurance companies , so that will be difficult to get . I will however make an attempt

and find out if and how I can make this happen. Will let you know in the end when I have come to a solution. The pictures of the '32 are in the restoration forum under 

A few pictures from the '30 will follow  thanks Johan 

 

Edited February 4, 2020 by Johan Boltendal
added small film (see edit history)

[TTR]

Didn't really mean to torpedo the discussion/thread.

Just offered an opinion...