64Rivvy Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 (edited) Hey all. Ive struggling with this forever and its stopping me from getting my cooling system back together and getting her running again. This is the second shroud I've tried. This one is a nice repro shroud for 63 to 65 riviera from opgi. Good quality. The issue I'm having is that the fan is hitting the bottom of the shroud when I rotate it. At first I though I could adjust the brackets on the crossmember but its just way off. It's not an up down adjustment issues. It seems more like my fan is closer to the radiator than it should be. I'm starting to wonder if maybe the issue is that my fan possibly has an extra spacer on it. There is a recess down in the bottom of the shroud where it would give the blades clearance if the fan blades were about an inch further back. If you have a stock shroud you will know what in referring to. I took some pictures of my fan and clutch. Does it look correct for an ac car? Running out of ideas and really need some help on this. Thanks guys. Edited February 1, 2020 by 64Rivvy (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KongaMan Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 Wrong fan clutch, maybe? How much clearance is there between the fan blades and the power steering belt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1965rivgs Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 Your pics look typical to me but having stated so I dont know how far rearward your fan needs to be moved to provide clearance? I`m sure if you go to Rockauto.com and look at the fan clutch specs for each supplier`s offering there is a dimension typically listed to compare the dimension you wish to change. Measure yours and compare and you might find a new fan clutch will provide a solution....and hey, you get a new fan clutch out of the deal. Having stated the above, over the years I have repeatedly heard complaints about the fit of repro fan shrouds. Tom Mooney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
64Rivvy Posted February 1, 2020 Author Share Posted February 1, 2020 (edited) Thanks. Here are some measurements. I'm really not sure if the fan blades and clutch on there are stock riviera parts. I checked stock riviera fan clutch and fan parts on ebay and mine look original but if anyone can verify my measurements or has any other ideas please let me know. I may have to give up and switch to an electric fan which I hate to do. Trying to return to 100 percent stock glory. Power steering belt to fan blades: 3/4" Fan blades to front of radiator: 1 7/8" Radiator to power steering belt 4.5" Number of fan blades: 5 Thanks, Raul Edited February 1, 2020 by 64Rivvy (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
64Rivvy Posted February 1, 2020 Author Share Posted February 1, 2020 Last note on this. Best way I can explain it is that it seems like the radiator needs to move back about an inch or the fan needs to move forward an inch toward the engine for the fan blades to fit into the recess of the shroud that is moulded into the fiberglass to the shape of the fan blades where they would spin. I would simply grind down the shroud, but the way it mounts at the top to the radiator support does not allow me to do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1965rivgs Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 55 minutes ago, 64Rivvy said: Thanks. Here are some measurements. I'm really not sure if the fan blades and clutch on there are stock riviera parts. I checked stock riviera fan clutch and fan parts on ebay and mine look original but if anyone can verify my measurements or has any other ideas please let me know. I may have to give up and switch to an electric fan which I hate to do. Trying to return to 100 percent stock glory. Power steering belt to fan blades: 3/4" Fan blades to front of radiator: 1 7/8" Radiator to power steering belt 4.5" Number of fan blades: 5 Thanks, Raul Factory AC fan is 5 blades but to be sure you should probably measure the outside diameter and compare to original. Tom M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KongaMan Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 Is the radiator itself too far back? It looks new; they don't always get the pegs right. How much distance is there supposed to be between the condenser and the radiator? Of course, it could just be a bad or the wrong shroud. If it came from OPGI, you can't discount that possibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 How does the bottom of the shroud sit on the the chassis? Perhaps you can modify the two brackets it sits on to move the bottom back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
64Rivvy Posted February 1, 2020 Author Share Posted February 1, 2020 The radiator is as far back as it can go without fully hitting/touching the condenser. I played around with the brackets but the shroud cant move any closer to the radiator as it's already literally touching the radiator. I'll try to get under there and take some pics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 Just to be sure, get a pry bar under the edge of the motor mounts and check that the rubber is still bonded to the mount plates. If the mounts are old everything can shift forward on a hard stop. Bernie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
64Rivvy Posted February 1, 2020 Author Share Posted February 1, 2020 60flattop, Good idea. I was thinking about this earlier that maybe the motor had shifted forward somehow over time. My guess is the mounts havent been touched in more than 20 years. Would bad mounts allow that much movement though? Like almost a full inch of movement forward? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, 64Rivvy said: The radiator is as far back as it can go without fully hitting/touching the condenser. The condenser should be in front of the radiator. Send lots of pictures. The mounting of the shroud is not determined by the location of the radiator. At the top, it mounts to a bracket connected to the core support and on the bottom it sits on two brackets connected to the front cross member. You can mount a shroud without a radiator. Edited February 1, 2020 by RivNut (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
64Rivvy Posted February 1, 2020 Author Share Posted February 1, 2020 Rivnut, Thanks. If you look in the pics above you can see where my condenser is mounted and how the shroud is mounted to the radiator support as you stated. The issue is that the shroud is flush up against the radiator and cant move toward the front of the car any further without cutting some of the shroud off. Will send more pictures when I get home a bit later. Thanks. Raul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 Ooooo! I just reread your 1st post and saw something that may be a contributor. .......OPGI...... Not known for quality reproductions. I know that it will be a pain, but if you can, remove the shroud and take a bunch of measurements. Or better yet, take a bunch of pictures next to a tape measure. Especially of the bottom and the position of the locating holes in relation to the back and the front 9f the shroud. I have a couple of OE shrouds (one for my 64, and one for my 65) that I can compare your measurements to my shrouds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
64Rivvy Posted February 2, 2020 Author Share Posted February 2, 2020 (edited) Thanks rivnut. Will do tomorrow am. Everything is just mocked up now so not too hard to remove. Here are some more pictures. Not able to get under the car atm. One other possible suspect is that my crossmember might be pushed back a little towards the front of the car. . Something looks a little off with it when I look really closely. I will do some measurements on that also to rule that out as a possibility. Edited February 2, 2020 by 64Rivvy (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bodayguy Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 I bought the repro fan shroud too. I had installed a new fan clutch though and it sticks out farther than the original one. Didn’t realize that at first. I tried everything to get the shroud to fit (including cutting the bottom middle out entirely). Ended up throwing it away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
64Rivvy Posted February 2, 2020 Author Share Posted February 2, 2020 I may get a new fan clutch just to see if it helps since I'm sure a new one is order anyways. Was waiting until I pull the motor and rebuild it but might as well try it now. Cutting a portion out of the bottom is actually not a bad idea. That would def give me clearance but I'm worried that would limit the effectiveness of the shroud. Might be the next step ii nothing else pans out. Thanks. Raul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMac Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 Had the same issue. I corrected it by enlarging the holes on the top radiator bracket that mounts to the core support. This allowed me to push the radiator back just enough that it did not rub any more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bodayguy Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 1 hour ago, BMac said: Had the same issue. I corrected it by enlarging the holes on the top radiator bracket that mounts to the core support. This allowed me to push the radiator back just enough that it did not rub any more. Do you have A/C? I can’t imagine pushing the whole thing forward with the condenser too. Interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KongaMan Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 Sounds like the common refrain is that the repro shrouds stink. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1965rivgs Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 10 hours ago, 64Rivvy said: I may get a new fan clutch just to see if it helps since I'm sure a new one is order anyways. Was waiting until I pull the motor and rebuild it but might as well try it now. Cutting a portion out of the bottom is actually not a bad idea. That would def give me clearance but I'm worried that would limit the effectiveness of the shroud. Might be the next step ii nothing else pans out. Thanks. Raul If you go to Rockauto and click on the info tab for each of the fan clutches offered for your application you will see the specs regarding overall height. There is also a nice tutorial about the different types of clutches... standard, heavy duty and severe duty Tom Mooney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 There are not a lot of body bolts on those Rivieras and they are easy to get at. Just back them off a few turns and shove the body forward. Step two after checking the motor mounts. I have had the body off mine twice and I'm just wondering if some of my little, annoying, alignment issues might be solved if I loosen mine up and jiggle it around some. Bernie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 So you're saying that a gap of 1" or more between the door and the fender is acceptable. Cool. That will make reassembly of my 64 much easier. I think I'll use bungie cords rather than bolts so that everytime I hit a bump, the fenders will realign themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 Not at all, there are two bolts on the quasi-core support that make up that body/frame attachment. I think it is 12 bolts total. The distance from the base of the cowl to the rear kick up is suspended, Lots of wiggle room there. One of my most frequent problem solving techniques it to figure out how I could screw something up to get the result I am trying to correct. When the topic starts "I've been struggling with this forever" the cure ain't gonna be obvious. And I did this: I watch a lot of CSPAN and I still cringe when they say Oversight Committee. Guess how many oversight I made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
64Rivvy Posted February 2, 2020 Author Share Posted February 2, 2020 1965rivgs, I just went to rockauto and did that. I found th ey had one clutch fan made for high pitch fan applications requiring a clutch fan lower than OE height. I found a Hayden fan: Heavy Duty Thermal Fan Clutch Features: Turns the fan 70-90% of the shaft speed when engaged for increased cooling Turns the fan 25-35% of the shaft speed when disengaged Used with deeper pitch fans (2-1/2" of pitch) Land and groove design with up to 27 square inch of working surface When I compared the overall height specs this one is a almost a full inch shorter. I ordered it and will try it out. Supposed to come thursday. Hopefully with this and maybe some slight cutting of the shroud it will work. Will let you guys know. Appreciate all the help. Rivnut, I will still take some measurements and update this thread as soon as I get the shroud out. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwedeDownUnderR63 Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 2 hours ago, 64Rivvy said: 1965rivgs, I just went to rockauto and did that. I found th ey had one clutch fan made for high pitch fan applications requiring a clutch fan lower than OE height. I found a Hayden fan: Heavy Duty Thermal Fan Clutch Features: Turns the fan 70-90% of the shaft speed when engaged for increased cooling Turns the fan 25-35% of the shaft speed when disengaged Used with deeper pitch fans (2-1/2" of pitch) Land and groove design with up to 27 square inch of working surface When I compared the overall height specs this one is a almost a full inch shorter. I ordered it and will try it out. Supposed to come thursday. Hopefully with this and maybe some slight cutting of the shroud it will work. Will let you guys know. Appreciate all the help. Rivnut, I will still take some measurements and update this thread as soon as I get the shroud out. This looks like the HAYDEN 2747 that I put in my ‘63. Worked fine for me. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMac Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 Yes, my car has a/c. It was still easy to move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
64Rivvy Posted February 2, 2020 Author Share Posted February 2, 2020 While I have the fan blades out I'm going to clean them up respray them. What is the oem correct color for the fan blades? Would a satin black be good? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KongaMan Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 Satin black is good for almost anything under the hood that's not green, plated, plain, or plastic. Stay away from gloss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
64Rivvy Posted February 7, 2020 Author Share Posted February 7, 2020 All, So I installed the new clutch fan and it def moved the fan back a good inch toward the motor. I thought my prob was mostly solved until I noticed one fan blade is hitting the power steering belt. It looks like one of the fan blades is bent and may have been damaged. Does one of the fan blades stick out farther than the others normally, or is mine bent? I took a picture where you can see the one blade is a good 1/4 of an inch farther back than the blade next to it. All of the other blades are like the blade on the left. I can take it off and take more pictures if needed. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telriv Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 Bend it back into place where it is this way you'll have a reference & have more torque to bend while in place & not do any damage to the other blades. Tom T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 Is it twisted or just pushed back? Whichever one it is will take a different kind of fix to make it line up correctly. Make sure that you don't create a stress line in the metal. If that blade were to come loose, it would create a bunch of damage to something else besides making the fan totally out of balance, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeJS Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 Good day, I once had a fan blade break off as I pulled away from a set of lights in a '61 Pontiac in-line 6. Massively loud bang, then running "very rough" to say the least. Shut it down, (cleaned my pants...) opened the hood, scratched my head for a few minutes then spotted the broken blade lodged into the car's frame rail. Like slamming a hatchet into a block of wood. It certainly would've went through the hood if it's trajectory was different. Once I kept the rev's up, I was able to drive the car home and eventually replaced the fan and one of the motor mounts, (she was rockin' at idle...🙂) Long story short, I suspect it can be straightened, but personally, I'd be looking for a replacement blade instead of potentially adding stress to a bend in the metal that may already now be stressed, and knowing the stress a broken blade can cause... Good luck... Later, 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
64Rivvy Posted February 8, 2020 Author Share Posted February 8, 2020 Thanks guys. Sounds like you all agree it's not supposed to be bent or out of line with the other blades. From what I can tell the base of the blade is twisted and the actual blade is also bent. I could hammer and dolly the blade back but the thick metal at the base that looks twisted looks too tough to properly fix. I put a request out to a few folks to see who might have an original in good shape. When I get it I can also compare to verify if my original is badly twisted. The saga continues.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KongaMan Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 I would concur that getting a new fan is the best option. Straightening the blade is no big deal, but if the fan took enough of a shot to bend the base, you'd want to be very sure that it's only a bend and compromised structurally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
64Rivvy Posted February 14, 2020 Author Share Posted February 14, 2020 I have not had any luck finding a fan anywhere. Let me know if anyone comes across one. One on ebay now but it's in bad shape and looks like it came out of a 70. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tenugent Posted February 15, 2020 Share Posted February 15, 2020 I've got a fan and clutch off a 63 401 if you want it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1965rivgs Posted February 15, 2020 Share Posted February 15, 2020 1 hour ago, tenugent said: I've got a fan and clutch off a 63 401 if you want it Better clear it with the headlight motor monkey first 🙈 Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
64Rivvy Posted February 15, 2020 Author Share Posted February 15, 2020 Hey sure tenugent. Is it a 5 blade fan from an AC car? Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tenugent Posted February 15, 2020 Share Posted February 15, 2020 It's a 6 blade from a/c #s matching 63 401,could have been changed I don't know.was a running parts car.was a early build,my 63 425 has 5 blades? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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