Forum Usage Poll - Please Respond

[Buffalowed Bill]

We are all car people on this forum. As such we deserve the opportunity to discuss modern vehicles, and how we as car people compare and vet them. Most of us, or family members, drive more modern cars then the arbitrary twenty five year cutoff date. The forum has provided multiple options available to discuss real world problem, and opinions that are loosely related to vintage vehicles. 

 

Discussing cars of the past may be fine for us old timers, but it's going to bore some younger gear-heads to death. We give lip service to bringing in younger people into the hobby, but it doesn't make much sense to distance ourselves from the future of the hobby. If the AACA and it's vocal advocates (forum) want to continue to be relevant in the future of the hobby it has be be able to bridge the demographic gap. I think that as the premiere comprehensive car forum, it should be open to subjects that can help facilitate the advancement of the hobby into the later part of the twenty first century. 

 

When I responded to the survey I tried to stay away from modifications of modern cars. But as I organized my thoughts for what for this response, I wondered if restricting even this subject was a distraction from the openness of the discourse, that I have come to appreciate on this forum. It's important to have rules and standards for showing and judging, but we need to be open to divergent opinions. My feeling is if we don't like a particular thread the simplest  thing to do is ignore it.

 

Bill

[old car fan]

I am a purists,but I also like to see what folks are doing to the the car's,wether poem or not,as long as it looks original.some do amazing things ,making it safer along the way.I agree with VL,let some slide.There has been post on here ,where the car was far from original,never built,still here.He will take boxes,and perform amazing outcomes.So,it's not all about original car's,it's fun to see how they do it,sometimes with a few tools,and cash.

[JamesR]

I'm glad this thread accompanies the poll so that I can give some context to my survey answers. I did vote for a modern category ( history and news) and the modified antique category, but my strong preference is for original  or restored original cars.

 

I think the modern history and news (I think that's what the category is called) can sometimes produce threads that provide a very interesting contrast between the way cars are now and the way they used to be. And the way they are made. I don't usually start threads like these but will sometimes contribute to them.

 

As far as the modified antique category, I think sometimes some very serious car guys in that category can benefit from original old car experts that hang out at this forum (not me, of course.) Likewise, I've been helped a lot by people at other forums like the Ford Barn where there isn't much of a distinction between original and modified (though they pretty much stay with the old stuff.) Hot rodders can be great fabricators who can help original folks deal with some perplexing problems. Original car folks can help rodders with hard to find part sources and attention to detail on year-appropriateness and authenticity.

 

"Original" or "restored original" can mean different things to different people and there are gradations. I put a solid state sequential turn signal unit in my T Bird because I decided I wasn't going to try to keep the original unit functioning anymore. That - along with a replacement engine put in by a previous owner (right type and size, but a year or two off) - will make some other owners cry foul, yet I still don't want to modify the car more than I need to. That's where I'm at.

[John_Maine]

I haven't looked at or posted here for long time. Somehow just kind of forgot about it being here. Interesting that the first thing I looked at upon coming back was this survey. I voted and was surprised to see that my choices coincided with the majority of votes so far. However, I wouldn't want this site to become so restrictive that someone can't mention something that in someone else's mind doesn't "fit" whatever rules are put in place. 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, theastronaut said:

I'd hate to not have the ability to share my favorite collector car here because it's not "as it left the factory".  

I would suggest that there is not a vehicle that falls into the AACA guidelines or is judged by their rules that is "as it left the factory" even if you excluded tires, belts and other consumables.  A pre WWI Ford that was found in a prairie field and has been restored so that it looks as it did when it left the factory is not "as it left the factory" when the restorer hand made three fenders, made a new dashboard and coil box (the old ones were rotted away) and modified a hundred little pieces of modern hardware to appear period correct.

[Luv2Wrench]

I'd like to see another poll where modification is broken down into two parts.

 

1) Modified in keeping with original design, spirit, availability of materials and technologies.  Swapping an injection system that routinely failed with one from a couple years before or after would be acceptable.   Building a water pump from scratch while following period correct literature and design principles would be the high mark.

 

2) Dropping a small block 350 and Pinto chassis in.

 

Another poll might be for non-member subscription fees for the website.  Until I retire there's absolutely no way I can participate in anything other than the forums and since I've failed to locate the money tree, I do have to watch what I'm paying for.  I would *gladly* pay a small, optional, for non-members only, subscription fee for forum access.

 

[Black River]

As someone that originally found this forum after I bought my (highly modified) 1963 Riviera, and subsequently left for a few years after getting tired of being lambasted about the modifications done to my car by various members, I have begun to come back every so often to try to help out with technical answers and if I need to find some bit of info I can't find on other forums.  I also own a modified 1972 Mach 1, 1974 F100, 1977 F250 Highboy, and a completely stock factory original (except for wheels) 1970 Coupe Deville with 90k miles that I am the second owner of.  I appreciate all kinds of cars, from factory fresh restos,  preserved cars, trucks, all the way to highly modified customs.  This has been a great source of info, and when I left I decided that this was not the sandbox for me to play in, and that was fine.  There's plenty of other forums out there for guys like me that build and enjoy all kinds of cars, fabrication, and customization.  The one thing I will say to everyone that is hard line "stock only" and wanting only vehicles that are manufactured before "such and such" year, especially the guys that think something like a car from the 50s is too modern, is this:  Be careful what you wish for.  If you haven't been paying attention for the last 20 years or so, check out some results from auctions and even what kinds of cars are put out there for sale at all.  Pay attention to what kinds of cars are at car shows, or Heaven forbid a car cruise where we actually drive our stuff in town (in traffic!!!!), that aren't associated with the AACA.......Completely factory stock is great. I love cars like that.  But they are not what is popular, and the cars/owners (I'm sorry to say) are a dying breed.  In 20 years, if the closed mindedness continues, there won't be anyone around to keep the classics going, at least not in the way that you want them to be.  Try to appreciate the fact that guys are keeping them going and alive for the world to enjoy, modified or not, and not letting them all rust away in junkyards, backyards, and "barns".

Edited January 30, 2020 by Black River (see edit history)

[John_S_in_Penna]

Also, I think it's useful to allow for cars under

25 years old on our forum.  We don't want discussions

of how to fix the display screen on a 2015 Hyundai,

but many cars become collectible before they are

25 years old, and are saved by AACA car collectors.

People are already collecting their literature, too.

Some examples that are (or were) popular long

before they became antiques are:

 

---The Buick Roadmaster station wagons of the 1990's;

---The last-generation (2-seat) Ford Thunderbird convertibles;

---Cadillac Allantes--and they certainly need some help!

---The last Buick Rivieras, up to 1999, already seen at Buick meets;

    et cetera.

 

Such cars need to be fixed and well maintained so they can

make it into the AACA world in good shape! 

[keithb7]

I’m reviving my 1938 Plymouth. I’m not restoring it. I’m using modern wire, relays and fuses for example. I’m trying not to put $25k into a car worth $12k when I’m done. 
No major modifications to body, brakes, suspension, engine, drivetrain, etc. I maintain a thread in the restoration section here. 
 

So am I modifying a vintage car? If I am, I elect to let that be discussed here. I am against chopping, lowering, frenching, blowers, hot-rodding, rat-rodding, etc vintage car talk on here. 
 

I think we need to differentiate “hot-rodding” from “modified”.  The term modified is too broad. If I slightly modify my 1938 to make it safer, it could be labeled as “vintage modified”. No? If I put rack and pinion steering in it, a blown or super charged hemi engine, and air bags for examples,  it could be tagged as “hot-rodded”. 
 

“Modified” is too generic and broad.  Descriptive term definitions need to be tightened up in my opinion. 

Edited January 31, 2020 by keithb7 (see edit history)

[JustDave]

I myself like early cars,brass cars,20s cars 30s care I believe most interest on this site is pre w w2  or maybe it’s just me my ,thinking,if you want a street rod that’s your business but I think your better suited for the h.a.m.

b. ,the aaca tome is about preserving ,   Justdave

[Steve Moskowitz]

A couple of things.  First, the vast majority of the members of this forum have always supported our mission and understood what we are about.  We do our best to listen, however, to everyone.  In an effort to be all inclusive we stated  that the board would discuss our forum rules and they will.  Peter, in an individual, effort tried to take the pulse of the forum members.  Peter has served this forum well for several decades as our unpaid Webmaster.  He deserves that opportunity.  So we are trying to listen.

 

Some of the replies are exactly why at times I (we) wonder why we continue to do this!  Just too many people making more of this then they should.  It is AACA's site, we pay for it and handsomely.  Michael you forget the cost of the software we use and I need not try to justify why we use Invision.  They are a leader in the field and came highly recommended after a lot of research.  Along with the forums, we have the cost of our main website and now are going to spend a lot more money on a new design as we need to move away from our current software.  I sign the checks for all of this so I know full well what it involves.  A lot more to our website than just the forums.

 

I don't want to stop Peter's poll otherwise I would lock this thing up now but suggest everyone to relax. WE WILL NOT MAKE EVERYONE HAPPY!  I guarantee you that.  The club has very strong views on  doing everything it can to support the hobby which is the reason it has a multi-million dollar public library that continues to grow leaps and bounds and a website that is free to other clubs.   It also will have two other national clubs joining us this year with no charge to those clubs.  We are NOT going to try and be all things to all people is my strong guess.  Someone has to stand up for the preservation of history and we will always be at that forefront hopefully.  

 

As to the future of the hobby as many of us know it, there are those that continue to believe that we are doomed.  They have a right to their opinion, we respect their reasoning and certainly are aware of those forces but AACA chooses to believe we can create our own destiny by hard work, loyal members and supporters.  We have an equal right to believe in what we are doing.  Our segment of the hobby may end up smaller but it will still be vibrant if we have anything to say about it. 

 

So, as I stated earlier, the board will take this subject up and I will report back later on their answer.  We will make it clearer than ever what our policies are.  After that, come here and enjoy whatever we allow but if it does not fit your beliefs we hope you can find a forum that better suits you!  It is really that simple,  

 

[Billy Kingsley]

Ive only been here a short time, but I've come to appreciate the knowledge of the forum members. I'm guessing that knowledge is not limited to a specific era, or even the specific topic of cars. I would be very happy to see a section for off topic discussion, but not religion and politics. I see that getting shouted at me non stop on Facebook. 

 

I tried very hard to keep my Jeep running until it got old enough to enter in the local AACA show. I failed. But, there's almost nothing out there to support people who are trying to preserve the newer vehicles for the future, other than the usual snide comments about how worthless they and their cars are. It's almost like there's a resentment of the club existing into the future. If we don't document the cars when we can, the knowledge of how they should be (factory stock) could be lost. I can't imagine that being a desired outcome for anyone. 

 

I'm conflicted on modified. I come from the world of hot rods. It's what I grew up with, and I only made the switch to factory stock fairly recently...about 12 years ago. I wouldn't want to see a lot of the common tropes, but I'm not as strict on say factory colors...I honestly couldn't tell you what the factory colors were most of the time. I simply do not have that knowledge or even know where to look for it. Wouldn't that also eliminate the cars that got rebodied in the 40s and older? Those seem well accepted even though not factory stock.

[trimacar]

I would like to point out that this is not a discussion of liking or not liking modified cars, nor is it meant to bash those who do like and own heavily modify cars.  I admire the workmanship on such cars, and there’s even one hot rod I’d like to own.  But that’s not what this forum is about.

 

This forum is based on original cars, or cars restored to more or less original condition.  Simple as that.  It’s not a place to discuss installing Mustang front ends nor swapping to a SBC engine.

One doesn’t walk into an Episcopal Church and expect to hear someone preaching the Catholic Church doctrine.

 

I don’t want to come to this forum and have to read about heavily modified cars.  I can go elsewhere to do so, if I so desire.

 

[sunnybaba]

Personally the only cars or trucks that appeal to me or attract my attention are Pre- 1935.... so I do NOT open any posts that are about vehicle after 1935.... but that is just My interests... I am also interested in modifications done on pre-1935 vehicles, that help them be safer and better equipped, to be driven on today's highways ( turn signals , led lights, brake improvements, overdrives,) those type of modifications....

I think that it is good to limit the posts that relate to vehicles newer than the 1980's ..... I am defiantly Not a preservationist ...... but appreciate the old original survivors ......😊

[Bhigdog]

Can't we all just get along by talking only about "stock/original" 25+ year old stuff with the occasional wink and nod to someone who colors a BIT outside the lines with out it turning into an international incident? ........Bob

Edited January 30, 2020 by Bhigdog (see edit history)

[Peter Gariepy]

9 minutes ago, Michael-Resurrector said:

Steve Moskowitz: True, being my own computer/web programmer I used php with mysql databases to get the job done and saved me vast amounts of money that others would charge to do the same work and users fees. You could probably pay an in house programmer fresh from Bangalore India who probably is better versed in programming than many Americans for fractions of a penny on the dollar.

 

You are dead wrong on your last two posts related to the functions, hosting and costs of this forum.  You know nothing of what you speak. Not to mention this is off subject and merits deletion.

[Chris Bamford]

As of 16:45 Mountain time, there are 21 threads on the General Discussion 1st page on my iMac, not including this poll and the three permanent items.

 

By my reckoning, all are but three threads deal primarily or totally with 25+ year old autos and related topics (rust removal, club dues, old photos etc.).

 

That's about 85% On-Topic of which I follow less than half plus two of the "modern" threads.

 

I say we have it pretty darn good now and let's not mess with success without very good reason.

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

 

Also want to put in my thanks for the Speedster sub-forum and their peaceful coexistence with the more original crowd. Yes, not factory original but as 12Staver and Wayne Sheldon often point out, speedsters — factory and otherwise — have been a part of automotive history since the early 1900s. For me, they are about the most fun "vintage motoring experience" I can imagine. My well-travelled '24 T Speedster has shown a lot of the general public that really old cars can be practical, reliable and a whole ton of fun.

[Peter Gariepy]

1 hour ago, Billy Kingsley said:

II'm conflicted on modified. I come from the world of hot rods. It's what I grew up with, and I only made the switch to factory stock fairly recently...about 12 years ago. I wouldn't want to see a lot of the common tropes, but I'm not as strict on say factory colors...I honestly couldn't tell you what the factory colors were most of the time. I simply do not have that knowledge or even know where to look for it. 

 

Most car guys like cars. Period.

It's not a conflict to like restored antique, and to also like hotrods, race cars, low riders, art cars, etc.

However, this forum and the AACA focus on restored antiques. So that is what the discussions focus on.

There are plenty of other places on the internet to discuss the rest of the hobby.

 

People wouldnt talk about Fords in a Chevrolet forum without being chastised for it being in the wrong place. The same holds true in the AACA forum. If you speak of modified cars your posts will not be welcome.

[Black River]

6 hours ago, Peter Gariepy said:

 

Most car guys like cars. Period.

It's not a conflict to like restored antique, and to also like hotrods, race cars, low riders, art cars, etc.

However, this forum and the AACA focus on restored antiques. So that is what the discussions focus on.

There are plenty of other places on the internet to discuss the rest of the hobby.

 

People wouldnt talk about Fords in a Chevrolet forum without being chastised for it being in the wrong place. The same holds true in the AACA forum. If you speak of modified cars your posts will not be welcome.

 

Exactly what my post was about.  I'm into modified cars, but I realized that this forum isn't for my modified cars, which is why I left.  I also realize I can still glean some needed info about my stuff from here if I need to know a factory spec or the way something was put together, which is why I came back.  As I said in my post, there's plenty of other forums out there for guys like me and my modified stuff, and I use them.  I also come back on here to try to help out with technical things, as I've been in the automotive fields for 20+ years of my 40 year old life, and have degrees in metal fab and body work, build my own engines, transmissions, suspensions, a little upholstery and everything else that goes along with having built over 20 cars both stock and modified.  It's a great forum.  I think you guys should keep it "stock" style.  But someone saying that something from the '50s or '60s is too new to be included on here because it can keep up with modern traffic is ridiculous.

[Peter Gariepy]

7 hours ago, Billy Kingsley said:

I honestly couldn't tell you what the factory colors were most of the time. I simply do not have that knowledge or even know where to look for it. 

 

You do know where to look for it. 
HERE IN THE AACA FORUM AND AACA LIBRARY!

It's why we exist!

[SC38dls]

This thread has me wondering why it has a “General Discussion “ along with all of the specific areas. Doesn’t that kind of say all of these questions can fit in the general area?  
 

Just  a question so don’t get too bent out of shape if you think I am way off base. I like the forum the way it is. 
Dave S 
 

[carbking]

Peter - first, thanks for the job you, and the moderators are doing.

 

As to costs, very little worth having is free.

 

Others have mentioned that possibly non-members might offer a contribution to website maintenance. As a current non-member (the closest chapter to me is more than 150 miles!), I would be certainly be willing to contribute to website maintenance. Not saying that it should be mandatory, but I believe many of us would contribute, if there is an easy way (i.e. paypal) button on the forums home page (and maybe there is, and I haven't seen it).

 

Jon (carbking) Hardgrove

[edinmass]

This site is paid for by the AACA, who has their own mission statement as to why and who they serve.  All of this forum is theirs.....to do with as they see fit........as a very wise man once told me.......the golden rule applies.The man with the gold makes the rules. In plain English he who pays for the site makes the rules.....don’t like it? Start your own site. End of discussion. Still don’t like it here? Go away...it doesn’t cost anything not to participate. I try and stay within the guidelines, and after twenty years and five thousand posts, I haven’t had any issues. Seems simple......play by the rules or leave. Thanks for you time.

 

PS- thanks for all the time and effort for this wonderful site........I enjoy it very much.

Edited January 31, 2020 by edinmass (see edit history)

[DLynskey]

I like Chris Bamford's analogy "..this forum is somewhat akin to a buncha buddies hanging around in the garage."  After following the forum for years the many regular contributors seem like my buddies even though I've never met them face-to-face. 

 

I hate to think how many hours I have spent on this forum;  as far as I'm concerned it's the best forum I have seen. The moderators do a wonderful job of keeping us in line -- many thanks to them.

 

I follow the forum for the antique car talk (see my signature below), but also enjoy side topics that relate to cars in general. I'm not into late models and customs, but can easily skip over a few of those as long as they aren't too numerous. I'm also exasperated by items posted by one-time visitors who post in the wrong place (i.e. parts wanted in the "cars for sale" topic) and then never come back to even read the responses.  

 

Overall I think it's great as it is. Keep it up.

 

Don

 

 

 

 

[Ronnie]

For those who think people only come to the AACA forums to read and post about antique cars (over 25 yrs) consider this.  The Buick Reatta forum is the second largest forum on this website with over 213,000 posts - right behind the General Discussion forum with a little over 367,000 posts. About 99 percent of the posts made in the Buick Reatta forum were made before any Reatta was 25 years old.

 

I know nothing has been decided yet but if a decision was made to discourage people from discussing modern cars you will quickly see a decline in the forums. I'm a member of the AACA.  I became a member long before my '88 Reatta was an antique because I wanted to support this forum and the AACA.  I see no reason we need to do anything that would discourage potential AACA members, who don't own an antique, from participating in the forums.

Edited January 31, 2020 by Ronnie (see edit history)

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Peter and other mods, thank you for all your efforts here.  Your role is on par with those brave souls who volunteer to referee children's sportsgames where parents watch your every move like a hungry cat watching a mouse.

 

This is a very well run forum, i wouldn't change a thing.  As a 20 year AACA member I would only encourage those who frequent this forum to join up, we can always use more members!!

[Modeleh]

I would just like to say thank you to the AACA and the moderators who provide and maintain this great forum, you are all doing a fine job and the evidence is in the popularity of this site.  

Now if the squeaky wheels could just go somewhere else for their grease, don’t go away mad, just...

[padgett]

mazing how many comments this has generated. That said I am a GMI grad, worked for GM in the '70s, & had a few cars that were not officially built though I did try to make the mods the same way the factory would/could have. For years I fielded questions and was a Platinum judge for a while until I realized no-one else was being as fanatical as I was. Now I do not pick apart nice cars (when did Packard wires go from embossed to silk screened ? Why did no GM car come from the factory with a R-59 battery ?).

 

Have never made it a secret that my cars must suit me (all have handsfree phone capability, added Android Auto to one, all must have superb rain tires). All are also "interesting" though only two are AACA eligable at the moment. It is hard to find a coupe today.

 

That said I pay the dues and am a member. Have always helped where I can and the number of books and service manuals on the shelves must be measured in feet and go back over 100 years with engineering manuals from Ricardo and Obert. Have learned from all (if steam comes back am ready). Often look up a reference for people. Doesn't mean I always agree with how the factory did things (found that running engins 10% cooler makes everything under the hood last longer and AC work better). Had dual CHT gauges on my Corvair because I wanted to know. GM went to computer controls in 1981 & have been using laptops to tum since then (well was using a VAX first).

 

Bottom line, if someone wants to know how a car left the factory and I have the reference, am glad to help. Meanwhile my cars are going to stay the way I want them and if someone has a car that the original system does not exist any more (or never worked in the first place),  am also glad to help someone keep the car on the road.

 

Personally thought that was how the AACA started, helping people keep old cars on the road and if "NO SKID" tires worked better than balloons that was OK. Am I rong ?

 

BTW the %s in the poll seem meaningless unless less than a quarter of the responders checked " Restoration and maintenance - antique automobiles 25 years and older "

[carbking]

4 hours ago, padgett said:

BTW the %s in the poll seem meaningless unless less than a quarter of the responders checked " Restoration and maintenance - antique automobiles 25 years and older "

 

Peter - it appears the percentages reflect the percentage of the number of responses, and therefore total 100 percent (or close, due to rounding). As the guidelines suggested to check all that apply, would not the percentages be more meaningful if they were a reflection of the number of each response to the number of responders, rather than a reflection to the total number of responses?

 

I personally checked three items. I suspect many others checked multiple items as well.

 

Jon.

[Pfeil]

 I would not change anything that has to do with  AACA's mission. Going onto the Forum I would like that mission boldly expressed. And everyone who post a new topic should be reminded of that mission and would have to click on a box before proceeding with that new post.

 

 There is one thing that does bother me, and it has to do the whole car hobby. There have in the past  and will continue into the future efforts that target old cars. We have seen fuels change, paint restrictions,  and laws enacted in certain states in regards to emissions, and emission testing etc. I have a mid 70's Oldsmobile that I bought new and kept every bi annual emission test for 40 years until I moved. The vehicle always passed, however CO and HC standards with each year became more and more stringent and a new category was added for a vehicle when new never had that requirement on a test. That requirement was a NOX standard. I had some insider knowledge to these new standards being in the industry and as to the why they were being implemented. As it turned out these vehicles were quietly being legislated off the road.

 

  Well,  we know politicians create legislation, so how can we discuss what's going on by legislators to warn fellow car enthusiast of impending laws that effect us without exposing proposed laws and their authors?     

Edited January 31, 2020 by Pfeil (see edit history)

[padgett]

Glad you brought that up Pfeil. On the home page of the AACA is this statement; " Since 1935, AACA has had one goal: The preservation and enjoyment of automotive history of all types." This obviously includes those aftermarket heads for NYC garbage trucks. "all types" includes products of people like Bill Frick, Dutch Darrin, Jim Fitch, George Barris, and Vic Edelbrock.

 

Personally grew up around people like Harvey Crane, Briggs Cunningham and Norm Latham (yes Virginia there were hot rodders in Florida in the '50s) so have some of their attitudes toward factory cars.

 

That said if you want to know the difference between a PF-23 oil filter (factory GTO) and a PF-24 (factory replacement in parts books) I can tell you (& have a case but would not put on an engine).

[Isaiah]

My thoughts is  most of the states call vehicles 25 yrs antique so we go with that.

 Maybe set up  one for stock or near stock up dated .  another for the mods.

 We are going to need a place  for doodle bugs and home made equipment.

We all need to get along I like the older stuff any son is into rat rods.

Like back when I got  my 1930 Chrysler I found a add in the paper for a running gear out of one the guy was building a hot rod  I got the take off stuff  so we both were happy.

[Billy Kingsley]

10 hours ago, Peter Gariepy said:

 

You do know where to look for it. 
HERE IN THE AACA FORUM AND AACA LIBRARY!

It's why we exist!

 Gee, I kind of feel like an idiot for not realizing that... can't see the forest for the trees sometimes I suppose. Considering I build model cars and attempt at least 20 to 25 a year, I hope I don't wear out my welcome! 

[trimacar]

9 hours ago, Ronnie said:

For those who think people only come to the AACA forums to read and post about antique cars (over 25 yrs) consider this.  The Buick Reatta forum is the second largest forum on this website with over 213,000 posts - right behind the General Discussion forum with a little over 367,000 posts. About 99 percent of the posts made in the Buick Reatta forum were made before any Reatta was 25 years old.

 

I know nothing has been decided yet but if a decision was made to discourage people from discussing modern cars you will quickly see a decline in the forums. I'm a member of the AACA.  I became a member long before my '88 Reatta was an antique because I wanted to support this forum and the AACA.  I see no reason we need to do anything that would discourage potential AACA members, who don't own an antique, from participating in the forums.

The Reatta forum was allowed on the site as a package deal with the Buick forums and the Buick club.  I know this, because when that forum appeared there were numerous questions about having the Reatta car discussed due to not being over 25 years old.  The decision had been made by AACA to allow it, rather than exclude the Buick club from the forum.  I’m glad it’s an active forum, I’ve followed numerous posts there and know plenty about Reattas now!  I’m also glad that time has made it now an antique car under AACA rules.

 

I feel more comfortable allowing discussions about cars that are ABOUT to become antiques than I do allowing hot rods and modified, again, not because I have anything against those cars, it’s just not the correct place to discuss them.

[Matt Harwood]

I just said this in another thread, but it's far more relevant here. I certainly  understand the reason for this poll and Peter's motivations, but I do not think that one incident should fundamentally change the way we conduct ourselves around here. One person was pushing modified cars pretty hard and then thumbed his nose at us when we told him this wasn't the right place for it, then took his ball and went home when finally called out.

 

None of that changes who we are as a group or the community we've built. This poll has created divisions and rifts that were never there and shouldn't be in the future. 99.9% of the people here understand the rules and play by them, even if they do sometimes get bent a little. I think that's perfectly OK. I rarely meet people who flagrantly disrespect the forum, the AACA, or its members, and they either quickly change their tune and join the community or they bug out--either way is OK. It's a self-correcting mechanism, which is typically called "culture." Our culture here is old, unmodified cars, but there's a lot of gray area around the borders that we allow people to use in the interest of being a community. How many fun discussions have grown out of a non-antique car discussion or even a non-automotive thing (like caption contests, photos of your family, what is your daily driver?, etc.). Rules are fine, but we're a community. We're friends having conversations. And we're adults.

I am certainly not saying that we should welcome modified or late-model cars, so don't put those words in my mouth. I am saying that 10 days ago there was no problem and now I'm seeing multiple threads with people fretting that said thread "breaks the rules" or isn't appropriate for the AACA. This thread, this poll, and the situation that led to it have all had a chilling effect on the conversations we have here--conversations between smart, reasonable, respectful people--and that's not cool at all.

 

Everyone here knows the rules and generally abides by them. More rules, more enforcement, tighter administration of the AACA's mission is not necessary and it never has been. Adults have always been able to act like adults (and yes, I'll admit that I'm one of the bigger offenders and I'll challenge any of you to a "most deleted posts" contest). We know the rules, we have always felt that a little bending was OK, and we always come back to a place that's comfortable and well within the AACA's stated mission. There's exactly zero danger of hot rods and customs becoming part of this community, regardless of what rules are (or are not) changed/enacted/enforced.

 

Don't let one person and one incident dictate what this place becomes in the future. This forum is my favorite--by far--because the people I know, the lessons I've learned, and yes, the fun I have talking to all of you. You inspire me, you are my cheerleaders, you are my friends, and you are my technical support. Making everyone look over their shoulders because "the rules" are now rigid instead of flexible will take all that away from us. We're reasonable people, we always have been, and I suspect we always will be. We can obey the spirit of the law with out the letter of it being enforced like a brick wall.

 

How many of you complain about "the nanny state?" Now how many of you understand that this is EXACTLY how the nanny state is born? Let's not do that, eh? It's been cool for the 20 years I've been here. There's no need for a change just because one kid pissed everybody off.

 

We don't need changes. Let's just pretend it's 10 days ago and everything will be cool. We'll get over it.

 

 

Edited January 31, 2020 by Matt Harwood (see edit history)

[Locomobile]

After participating in online forums for the last 25 years, this is the sort of stuff that kills them. People read and share these posts for enjoyment; why else would they? 

 

Air grievances with the administrators in private and leave the civil, entertaining discussion out of it.

 

-Ron

 

 

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Matt's well thought out post says it all, one minor add, what fits in an antique oriented forum (speedsters, safety mods, occasional somewhat related but ot posts) outside of the core mission is pretty well established.  Someone suggested this is a logical place for doodlebugs and the like and i tend to agree but defer to the mods on that. 

 

The point is, stuff that falls way out of bounds usually gets little play, and so we sort of self regulate.  Most fb pages have rules as well.  We have a good thing going, and don't want to lose valued members so if it aint broke lets not fix it, ok?

Edited January 31, 2020 by Steve_Mack_CT (see edit history)

[Isaiah]

Rember that the Doodle Bugs  were made before WW2

A lot of the hot rods  lot of them were made 25 yrs ago or more.

 I took  my 39 Chevy to town oner day this summer and  stopped at the gas station  and another car pulled in  and  he asked me  who was the oldest,

I told him the Economy hit and miss in the back of the truck was the oldest the truck was next and me last

[padgett]

Just a thought but maybe a forum for cars "soon to be antiques" say over 10 years old, and maybe one for "orphan cars" (many before 2010). This would provide an AACA venue for brining new interests in.

 

As an aside I agree with Trimacar about the Reatta forum, that is how I got here but many threads are on things like swapping in a L67 or a Getrag, no-one minds.

 

So create a venue so those "no yet antique" or for "keep them on the road" that can consider when non-original means for repair and I won't discuss here how to use an inner tube to repair the power brake in an E-type.

 

ps probably have been around too long but remember when a Duesy was a $600.00 car (think it was in Road & Track).

[Matt Harwood]

16 minutes ago, Isaiah said:

 

A lot of the hot rods  lot of them were made 25 yrs ago or more.

 

 

Playing these games with the interpretation of the AACA mission statement is kind of what got us here. The AACA isn't a club for cars that are merely 25 years old or older. It's for STOCK, UNMODIFIED cars that are 25 years old or older. Plenty of cool rods built in the '50s, which was 70 years ago. Awesome. I love them. Many have history that's more significant than unmodified cars and represent a fundamental shift in the American way of life. They are an important part of our identity and our culture. I understand their place in history and in our hobby.

 

This is still not the place for them.

 

This kind of false equivalence is why we're having problems where none should exist. It's why people are suddenly advocating for stronger rules and tighter regulation and more moderation. None of that was needed until people started saying things like, "Well, some hot rods are made out of cars that fit the AACA age requirement, so I don't see the problem with including..." NO!

 

Trying to turn this forum into something it doesn't want to be will turn it into a place nobody wants. Letting it be what it has always been will ensure it continues to be great. Expanding horizons to include modified cars and/or adding more rules are not the answer.

 

Stop trying to make square pegs fit where round pegs belong and nobody will have to make a rule that says NO SQUARE PEGS ALLOWED. Even better, we won't have to enforce that rule and turn the place into a no-fun zone.