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The Car Which Shall Not Be Named III (1935 Lincoln K)


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4 minutes ago, alsancle said:

Well Matt, there is only one of those, so...

 

I think there's confusion on the Cadillac. The engine on the test chassis was from a '32 KB Murphy disappearing top roadster that was the Indy Pace Car that year and maybe that's how we got to talking Murphys. Nevertheless, it wasn't a standard Fleetwood convertible sedan. Very steeply raked windshield. It has probably been out of sight for decades like many of the cars in this particular collection. I hope it will be at our Father's Day show and I can take some actual photos of it. It was stunning.

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Posted (edited)

No, it's not the red and black one. It wasn't as radical as that. I know that car. This one is blue and a fresh restoration. This particular collection has a LOT of cars that have been out of sight for many years, so I'm guessing they've had it and just recently finished it. It was definitely convertible sedan looking, not like the car you're thinking of:

 

CoA11.jpg.196edeb31f4c9822d9a68a633424b3f4.jpg

 

This isn't it, of course, but it looked a bit like this with the swept-back windshield (although it was a convertible sedan):

32-Cadillac-V16-Fltwd-Madame-X_Sdn-DV-08_PBC-001-800.jpg

 

I changed my post since I'm unsure of the coachbuilder on the one I saw. It was really something, though. I'm sure I'll see it again. 

Edited by Matt Harwood (see edit history)
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Today's project can rightfully be called, "Pay attention, dummy!"  Follow along and see if you can spot where I went wrong before I give you the answer.

 

After gathering all the parts, I wanted to install the flywheel today. I had the replacement dowel pins, some new grade 9 flywheel bolts (although I ultimately decided not to use them), and a new pilot bearing. I cleaned and chased the threads in the crank and blew out all the holes with brake cleaner and compressed air. Looking at the parts, you can see that the dowels should be just proud of the flywheel hub surface and their shoulders fit into recessed grooves in the retaining ring. Because of this, I decided to hang the flywheel then install the dowels so that I could properly gauge their depth.

 

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Dowels are held down by the retaining ring, which has reliefs for their shoulders.

 

I also note that my new pilot bearing, despite having the exact same part number as the original, doesn't have that cover on one side. Because of that, I decided to use the original bearing. It rotated smoothly, so I cleaned it out, packed it with fresh grease, then popped it into the center of the flywheel.

 

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Bearings have the same manufacturer and part

number, but are not the same.

 

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I decided to use the old bearing and popped it into the

center of the flywheel, then mounted the flywheel
on the crank.

 

Gary told me to put a nut on to protect the threads and install the dowels dry by tapping them in until they were just proud of the surface. The first one went in pretty easily until it didn't and wouldn't quite go in that last half-millimeter. It was proud, but just a little too proud. I tried a variety of different techniques to get it to settle in there and eventually decided that instead of pounding the hell out of the stud and risking damage to the crank or bearings, I would machine a bit out of the retaining ring so it would sit flush. On subsequent studs, I used a little grease on the tip of the dowel and they popped right in. OK then.

 

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I used a nut to give myself a surface to tap without 

damaging the threads on the dowel.

 

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The dowels should be just proud of the flywheel surface.

 

Once I got all five dowels in place, I installed the center grease seal and retaining ring. Then I installed the six mounting bolts. I bought new ARP bolts for the flywheel, but after comparing them to the originals, I decided to go with the factory bolts. They were still in very good condition and their abnormally large heads (11/16" on a 7/16" bolt) seemed to be a better decision just in terms of clamping on the retaining ring. Plus they were already drilled for safety wire unlike the ARP bolts, which would have been a hassle to drill (ever drilled chromoly with a 1/16" drill bit? Yeah, not so easy). Anyway, I installed all six original bolts with a drop of blue Lok-Tite and torqued them to 80 ft-lbs in 10-pound increments using a criss-cross pattern. 

 

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Retaining ring, grease seal, and original flywheel bolts
installed and torqued.

 

The bolts were safety wired from the factory so that was next. When we took it apart, there was just one wire going through all the bolts, and I guess that was adequate but it wasn't the right way to secure bolts with safety wire. I did it the correct way by securing the bolts in pairs in such a way that any bolt working loose will tighten its neighbor and vice-versa.

 

1855840819_2019-01-0814_53_09.jpg.2f65d7ed240fe3d36b5f3f5eba568e20.jpg  5-29-21-8.jpg.43b03d314d73e67121ab7ffa5adebce8.jpg
Original safety wire vs. the "right" way to do it.

 

So... now that it's all assembled, has anyone spotted my mistake?  Here's a handy reference photo from when Dr. Francini and I took it apart three years ago:

 

1875828685_2019-01-0814_58_41.jpg.42d73bbd268242c3054e541bd3747362.jpg

Do you see the problem yet?

 

Yep, I installed the pilot bearing backwards. The cover is supposed to face the engine side but I installed it on the clutch side.

 

Ignoring the fact that turning it around is technically the "right" thing to do, is the bearing being backwards actually a problem? The bearing itself is square, not tapered, so it should work the same in either direction. Plus the replacement bearing doesn't have that cover at all. It makes more sense for the cover to face the clutch, since that's where you don't want the grease, right?

 

So do I tear it all apart and flip it around or not worry about it? Best case, I can just remove the bolts and the retaining ring and yank the bearing using a puller and leave the flywheel in place (which I recall was a MAJOR PITA to remove). Worst case I have to pull all the dowels to get the flywheel out and that's gonna SUCK. If I damage the bearing while pulling it, I have a replacement, but it doesn't have that cover--that's a lot of work for zero net gain at that point. Fortunately, it looks like Francini was able to pull the bearing with the flywheel in place when we first disassembled it:

 

1935_Lincoln_Flywheel.jpg.b1b4940b51aa35bcfbb569bb06fe13f3.jpg
I bet I can get the bearing out without pulling the flywheel.

 

What say you, wisdom of the interweb?

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The photo with the "original" safety wire seems to have the bearing in the way you put it in. The other disassembly photo has the bearing turned the other way. If the original safety wire photo is of your car, I think you put the bearing in the correct way, and that the bearing was removed and temporarily installed backwards during the disassembly process. I would not worry about it. I think you will be OK either way. 

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I don’t have near as much experience as so many others who will likely comment so if I’m wrong thats my excuse, but with that in mind I wouldn’t mess with it. If you greased it well enough (which you did) it will be just fine forever and I think messing with it could do more damage than good. 
Keep the updates coming 

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11 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:

It makes more sense for the cover to face the clutch, since that's where you don't want the grease, right?

You are correct, the cover needs to be on the clutch side to prevent grease from getting on the disc which will cause chatter, and the cover also prevents the normal clutch dust from getting into the bearing.

 

On the topic of grease migrating to a clutch disc, often inexperienced people use too much grease on cars that use a bronze oil-impregnated pilot bushing, thinking that it needs grease, (which is not needed).  They then end up with needing to take it all apart again due to eventual chatter.

 

 

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Posted (edited)

Thanks for the feedback, guys. I also Emailed Gary, my very helpful expert, and he says that the replacement bearing without a cover is what he always uses and he has never seen a bearing with a cover like my old one. So apparently installing it either way is correct (or neither way is incorrect). He recommends not worrying about it, so I won't.

 

And now that Matt Hinson points it out, I think he's got it right--the bearing sure looks like it was originally installed with the cover facing the clutch. Dr. Francini must have just shoved it back in there for safe keeping or something and that's when I took that photo.

 

Big relief. I'm not taking it apart again. All good.

 

 

Edited by Matt Harwood (see edit history)
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I've done about all the assembly I want to do, so I started work on the test stand. I'm re-using the pallet that I used to ship the engine to New England to have the block stitched. It's heavy-duty and already has all the brackets in place to hold the engine. I'll have to add some gussets and adapters for things like the radiator, as well as some kind of dashboard, but before I could do any of that, I had to get it onto the stand itself. So that's what I did today. Wrestling with a 700-pound engine is exhausting.

 

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Engine on the hoist. Hanging by four head bolts was
more than adequate.

 

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Rudimentary test stand. Engine is secure and

I added the 8-foot 2x4 (which is probably overkill)

to keep it from tipping over from the torque.

 

Next step is some assembly--heads, starter, cooling fan, water manifolds. I should have my Remflex gaskets next week, so I can install the exhaust manifolds, intake, and carburetor, too. Then the radiator goes up front and some kind of dashboard in back, probably with some plywood to somewhat cover the flywheel, just for safety. I pulled out my head gaskets in preparation for installing the heads--which way do they go? Copper towards heads or copper towards block?

 

HeadGasket1.jpg.f239099526aebd453004d7c92e8abded.jpg  HeadGasket2.jpg.f663c52303e2584c6bb7e90c70760913.jpg
New copper head gaskets. Which side goes towards the block?

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I don’t know if you’ve started to put those heads on yet but I would put your intake and exhaust manifolds in place with your collector or Y pipe installed. I think I sent you a procedure that I went through. If you put the heads on first it’s difficult to get the nuts on the intake and exhaust manifolds not impossible but difficult.

Lynn

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A0F79A39-23FE-41F5-ABF5-5DC112BD1543.jpeg

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11 hours ago, just me said:

I'd wait until Ed chimes in. 

 

Charley


Ok.....I have been withholding comments.......I confess! I’m waiting for Matt to get PO at the car again......and wants to dump it cheap. But I prefer to wait till the motor is installed because it makes it easier to load. 😏

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Actually, I’m looking forward to seeing it run on the wooden stand. It should run a few hours, and get one or two oil changes with filters. I figure ten to fifteen gallons of fuel is about right, if it will burn  15 gallons without blowing up or having a major issue, it will be good for the rest of all of our lives. Every engine we tear into we run.......it’s more time and money......but worth every cent to deal with issues on a stand instead of in the car.

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5 minutes ago, edinmass said:


Ok.....I have been withholding comments.......I confess! I’m waiting for Matt to get PO at the car again......and wants to dump it cheap. But I prefer to wait till the motor is installed because it makes it easier to load. 😏

 

I was working today and realized that if this thing doesn't run or has major issues, it will break me. I won't just be pissed off, it will break me. I have so much hope heaped on the back of that stupid car that I don't know how I will manage a failure at this point.

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Matt.....it will be fine. Big pre war cars are very, very difficult. The trick is to ignore the pain......financial and time, and just keep pounding till you cross the finish line. I too have learned to absolutely HATE a car.......multiple times. One of my first car mentors taught me.....fix it right the first time, regardless of time or cost......it’s the cheap way out. He was correct, but it took me twenty years to realize it. The other thing he taught me.......never, ever give up.......ever, for any reason. Now, I just dig in and pound..........it’s a great habit. I haven’t run across anything in the last twenty years I couldn’t fix, and I work on some crazy difficult stuff. I will admit......I know a lot of talented people who help me along the way.........I always look for help from experts.....REAL experts, not internet experts. 

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11 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:

 

I was working today and realized that if this thing doesn't run or has major issues, it will break me. I won't just be pissed off, it will break me. I have so much hope heaped on the back of that stupid car that I don't know how I will manage a failure at this point.

Matt,

I think you have this well in hand. Will there be issues? Yup! Happens with every complex piece of machinery. Somethings will be simple others not so obvious - its all part of a remarkable journey. 

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If it was easy, everyone would have a well sorted monster classic.......

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12 hours ago, edinmass said:

internet experts

ED I love that ! Yes, way to many internet experts who never turned a wrench nor have scars to prove they have. I do not believe in the word expert - never ever use it . I have had people call me that when it comes to some of the things I have written, but always immediately comment ' no, never will be that, I just have had the opportunity to have access to period material to get the real story'. One never ever stops learning - especially when it comes to history of any kind.

Walt

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Continued on the test stand tonight--I wanted to get the plumbing done. Gauges are mounted, as are the starter button and ignition switch. Interestingly enough, it'll only take 5 wires (plus battery cables) to make this thing run. I've also got a mechanical oil pressure gauge that I hooked up to the original gauge's fitting, and a mechanical temperature gauge that will screw into the original gauge's port in the radiator. I added a remote oil filter and bought the smallest, cheapest filters I could find that would fit since I'll be changing them frequently and cutting them open to see if there's anything amiss inside. So I hooked up all that stuff tonight.

 

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Finished the crude framing. As a former carpenter I'm not thrilled with my

finish quality, but it's made from scraps from my basement remodel.
Note that I added a piece of plywood over the flywheel for safety.

 

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Plumbed in the remote oil filter. You might recognize the leftover

cunifer tubing from my '41 Buick fuel line project last year.

 

6-1-21-2.jpg.33a72cf6b584b7026c20bd5f1fec1394.jpg
Used some generic fittings to connect the modern

oil pressure gauge to the original block fitting.

 

And check out these awesome photos a fellow named Keith Nordquist posted to the Lincoln K page on Facebook. I think the blackwalls will turn out OK...

 

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Matt....that rig is fancy compared to what we run. Love the oil filter set up......looks like the NAPA rig I put on my 1931 Cadillac back in 1980.........it was still on the car 35 years later..........run the hell out of it. It’s gonna be fine. 👍

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On 5/31/2021 at 9:53 AM, JV Puleo said:

I'm in total agreement with Walt. To me, an "expert" is the person who, after years of study, realizes what he doesn't know.


Wasn’t it Shakespeare who said when I was 15 my father was the dumbest man I ever met, and when I was 21 I realized he was the most intelligent man I ever met. I was amazed what he learned in only six years........🤔

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On 5/31/2021 at 6:29 AM, Walt G said:

I do not believe in the word expert - never ever use it .

 

On 5/31/2021 at 6:53 AM, JV Puleo said:

To me, an "expert" is the person who, after years of study, realizes what he doesn't know.

And in the bomb technician/EOD community, the term "expert" is sardonically applied ONLY to those killed by the devices they were working on.

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1 hour ago, Matt Harwood said:

I added a remote oil filter and bought the smallest, cheapest filters I could find that would fit since I'll be changing them frequently and cutting them open to see if there's anything amiss inside.

Matt there’s a better way of seeing what’s in you oil.  I send oil samples to a company called Blackstone Oil Analysis. I’ll hunt for the web address and posted a little later. Hard to do on the phone. You can send them an oil sample and they’ll tell you everything that’s in it, I did that with mine and it’s been cleaning up ever since . Actually my looks really good now after a few oil changes. They can tell you a lot of things about your oil, cost $30-$40 depending on what you ask for.

 

I hope this link works. 
https://www.blackstone-labs.com/ 

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As a new member I assure you my comments are sincere....

I don't mean to critique Ed or any of the experts (just want to learn) but I wonder would it make more sense to temperature cycle this? Instead of ~15 hours straight perhaps five one-hour runs from cold?

Also I know when dynoing a torque tube in a viscous coupling is used to simulate load. Would loading the engine provide more satisfaction it will stay together, there's no knock, piston slap, etc then just a low idle? I guess I'm wondering the details of your procedure.

...looking great!

- Dan.

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2 hours ago, prewarnut said:

As a new member I assure you my comments are sincere....

I don't mean to critique Ed or any of the experts (just want to learn) but I wonder would it make more sense to temperature cycle this? Instead of ~15 hours straight perhaps five one-hour runs from cold?

Also I know when dynoing a torque tube in a viscous coupling is used to simulate load. Would loading the engine provide more satisfaction it will stay together, there's no knock, piston slap, etc then just a low idle? I guess I'm wondering the details of your procedure.

...looking great!

- Dan.

 

Those are all good points. I did think about loading it, but how (I used to work for a dyno manufacturer so I'm very familiar with how they work)? The degree of complexity for testing would get out of hand in a hurry and I'm not sure I want to reinvent an engine dyno and somehow fabricate it from scratch just to test this engine. Remember, this was an engine that was otherwise healthy and ran well but just had a hole in the block. I don't expect the internals to have any issues since they've already been broken-in.

 

My plan isn't to run it continuously, but as you say, cycle it. Listening to it idle for hours on end isn't really going to tell me much, but as you say, some heat cycles would be a good idea to flex the head studs and manifold bolts a little bit so they can be re-torqued, to test the water pump, starter, and generator, to allow oil changes and analysis, stress the cooling system a bit, etc. I will probably spend a week or two starting it, letting it run at various RPM levels, watching temperature and oil pressure, and listening for bad noises. I assure you it won't be a "start it once, let it run for a while, good to go" kind of thing.

 

Nobody's more curious than I to see what happens. I'm just not sure I'll be able to push the button when the time comes...

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Prewarnut............having known Matt for years, and how he does things, I didn’t think I needed to imply heat cycling the engine. I knew he would do it already. No need to load the unit.......just spinning it up to max RPM is fine. The times flies when running an engine. Usually we just run it for two or three gallons at a time......however it works out. I expect he won’t have any issues.........

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On 5/31/2021 at 7:17 AM, 38Buick 80C said:

 

When playing FPS games - Meme on Imgur

 

I'm going to have this photo enlarged to poster size and hang it in my office. It is my personal motto.

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2 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:

 

I'm going to have this photo enlarged to poster size and hang it in my office. It is my personal motto.

Matt

 

How about this one?

 

Charley

 

 

 

download (1).jpeg

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More connecting of stuff. I think I'll get to wiring tomorrow. 

 

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Rebuilt starter installed.

 

 

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Starter solenoid. I thought this was a fourth terminal

but it's actually a button. Is that like a remote start

function? I can see how that could be useful.

 

6-2-21-3.jpg.3ebd635c40a4919c9a410cf75497dbbe.jpg
Added another board so I'd have a place to mount

the coils. I need to make some longer wires
to reach the distributor and figure out which
wire goes to which terminal.

 

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Tried to install the fan belt. Even with the pulley at its

lowest point, it won't fit. Why? This is the old one
which is fairly beat up, so I ordered a new one that

should be about the same size. We'll see if it fits any better.

 

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