Big six carb.

[dl456]

Hello,

I am looking for a carb to use on my 1920 Studebaker big six. 

It originally had a B&B SV29. I couldn't locate one so I built up a Stromberg LS-2 .

It appeared like it would fit, but the float bowl to block clearance is 0. 

When I bought the car it had a BB1 installed on a home made adaptor plate

I would have no issue using the BB1 temporarily if I could find the correct factory adaptor.

Looking for suggestions.

Thanks,

Dennis 

[carbking]

A bit of information, some of it seemingly conflicting:

 

In 1920, Studebaker used the Stromberg LS-2 on the Special Six, but not the Big Six. The Big Six used a Penberthy, but I do not have the reference number. This is also true for the model years 1921 and 1922.

 

In 1923, the Big Six used the Penberthy SV-12. This was also true for 1924.

 

In 1925, the Big Six carb was changed to a Penberthy SV-14 (early production), which in turn was changed to a Penberthy SV-29 later in the year.

 

1926 is where information may be conflicting. The Penberthy was changed to the SV-33, and supposedly a Stromberg LS-2 was also used.

 

In 1927, a Stromberg TX-2 is shown ON RHD EXPORT MODELS ONLY. A Stromberg OX-2 was listed for domestic models, and the SV-33 Penberthy was continued.

 

In 1928, the Stromberg was a UX-3

 

Now, the number to the right of the Stromberg type, tells us the S.A.E. flange size; while the letters are the model types. An S.A.E. size 2 carburetor would have a nominal throat size on 1 3/8 inches, and a center-to-center bolt spacing of 2 11/16 inches. The larger size 3 carburetor would have a nominal throat size of 1 5/8 inches, and center-to-center spacing of 2 15/16 inches. The Penberthy is a size 3 carburetor.

 

The LS, OX, TX, and UX Strombergs are ALL cross-flange carburetors.

 

The Carter BB-1 is a straight flange carburetor, and would require an adapter to be mounted correctly on the Big Six engine.

 

My question, and no offense meant, is it possible the Carter adapter is still on the intake, and that is what is causing the Stromberg to have clearance issues?

 

And while I have no Studebaker parts books, how did they get an LS-2, OX-2, or TX-2 on the same manifold as the Penberthy (different bolt spacings)? Or, did Studebaker have a different manifold (or adapter) for the size 2 carburetor?

 

Jon.

 

 

[carbking]

As far as an adapter is concerned, Carter listed an adapter number 72-39 as a size 3 cross. We have a replacement size 3 cross which is shorter than the Carter. The Carter adapter is 2 inches tall, while ours is approximately 1/2 inch.

 

Jon.

[dl456]

I figured I might count on carb king for a response. Thank you.

The BB1 is a straight flange and 2-15/16'' centers. These flange bolts are 90 degrees off from the manifold.

The home made adaptor that came with the car was a piece of 1/2'' steel crudely fashioned to remedy this. I couldn't leave it on there.

Is your replacement adaptor 2-15/16'' centers on manifold and carb flanges? Would it rotate the BB1 90 degrees?

What are your thoughts on re-installing the BB1 with a correct adaptor?

Thanks again,

Dennis 

[carbking]

Ours is cast aluminum that was then machined. It is a size 3 cross (2 15/16 c-c). The cross will rotate the straight BB1 90 degrees.

 

As to the use of the BB1 on the Studebaker Big Six:

 

The LARGEST displacement engine for which Carter recommended the BB1 was 315 CID. Your engine is 12 percent larger.

 

I have always been a believer that engineers knew what they were doing  so I am not going to recommend the BB1 to use on the Big Six.

 

Jon.

[dl456]

Jon,

Is there a particular carburetor that you would recommend. I have been looking for a correct replacement since before Hershey

and have not come up with anything.

I kind of get the idea that your not a big fan of the Penberthy anyway.

 

Thanks,

Dennis

[carbking]

Of the Penberthy carbs that I have acquired over the years, none are both complete and not cracked internally. Even if they were I would not suggest using one on a driver today, because of the change in fuel. The big selling point of Penberthy was they were fully automatic; there was NO ADJUSTMENT. Adjustment to the characteristics of modern fuel is a must, and Penberthys do not have adjustments.

 

As to how they performed in their day...............I may be old, but not THAT old  , don't know.

 

Stromberg offered a UX-3 as a replacement for the earlier Big Sixes (note that Studebaker used a Stromberg UX-3 on the Big Six in 1928). Unfortunately, the UX-3 used the same zinc alloy (pot metal) as the UX-2, and the UX-2 woes have been very well documented on these forums. There may be a UX-3 with usable castings somewhere on the planet, but I would be afraid to trust one. While I do have a couple for sale, they would be sold with the understanding that the castings should be used as patterns to allow one to cast new castings in aluminum, machine them, and then transfer the other parts (throttle, choke, jets, etc.) EVEN IF THE CASTINGS LOOK GOOD!

 

But the Stromberg UX-3 superseded the OX-3. The OX-3 is brass, but with a zinc alloy venturi. So what I would suggest would be to acquire a Stromberg OX-3 (should fit the intake with NO adapter, the X means cross), acquire the internal specifications for the UX-3 for Studebaker; and then machine the correct diameter venturi from aluminum, and recalibrate the OX-3 to mimic the UX-3 calibrations.

 

Alternatively IF YOU HAVE CASTING CAPABILITY: acquire a UX-3, re-cast and machine the castings, and rebuild to original specifications.

 

Jon.

[oldford]

There is an O2 Stromberg on ebay right now. Ebay No. 274150260639. Perhaps you should check it out...

 

Frank

[dl456]

Oldford thanks for the heads up.

Jon,

I sent you a PM.

Thanks for the input.

Dennis

[JRA]

On 1/20/2020 at 8:23 PM, carbking said:

Of the Penberthy carbs that I have acquired over the years, none are both complete and not cracked internally. Even if they were I would not suggest using one on a driver today, because of the change in fuel. The big selling point of Penberthy was they were fully automatic; there was NO ADJUSTMENT. Adjustment to the characteristics of modern fuel is a must, and Penberthys do not have adjustments.

 

As to how they performed in their day...............I may be old, but not THAT old  , don't know.

 

Stromberg offered a UX-3 as a replacement for the earlier Big Sixes (note that Studebaker used a Stromberg UX-3 on the Big Six in 1928). Unfortunately, the UX-3 used the same zinc alloy (pot metal) as the UX-2, and the UX-2 woes have been very well documented on these forums. There may be a UX-3 with usable castings somewhere on the planet, but I would be afraid to trust one. While I do have a couple for sale, they would be sold with the understanding that the castings should be used as patterns to allow one to cast new castings in aluminum, machine them, and then transfer the other parts (throttle, choke, jets, etc.) EVEN IF THE CASTINGS LOOK GOOD!

 

But the Stromberg UX-3 superseded the OX-3. The OX-3 is brass, but with a zinc alloy venturi. So what I would suggest would be to acquire a Stromberg OX-3 (should fit the intake with NO adapter, the X means cross), acquire the internal specifications for the UX-3 for Studebaker; and then machine the correct diameter venturi from aluminum, and recalibrate the OX-3 to mimic the UX-3 calibrations.

 

Alternatively IF YOU HAVE CASTING CAPABILITY: acquire a UX-3, re-cast and machine the castings, and rebuild to original specifications.

 

Jon.

Very useful information, Jon. I have two Pemberthy SV33 carburetors that I will try to combine to make one funcional unit for my EP series 1926 Studebaker Big Six, also using the repair kit I bought from you.

In addition, I got one Stromberg OE1 carburetor, was this model also used in 1926 cars?

thanks, JRA

[carbking]

The OE-1 had many applications; but was too small for the Big Six.

 

Jon.

[Caribe]

Hi, I see this is an old thread, but I do have a Penberthy SV29 available.  Apparently it fits 1925 Studebaker Big Six.  Many thanks.

[JRA]

I believe 1926 Big Six is SV33. I am not sure about the usage of of the SV29, maybe Standard Six? Would the SV29 work properly in the Big Six engine? Tks

[Caribe]

Thanks for the reply.  I am going off from this list from the Carburetor Shop LLC.  It appears that it was SV29 in 1925 for Big Six, and, as you say, SV33 for 1926.

 

THE CARBURETOR SHOP / Penberthy information needed