John_S_in_Penna

Any modern cars you admire, or aspire to acquire?

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3 hours ago, J.H.Boland said:

Personally ,the last car that I thought would be cool to own was the 2008-2009 Pontiac G8 GT. Before that was the 1994-1999 Olds Aurora, and the BMW Z3M .Nothing since has turned my crank.

There was an interesting article in the Hagerty News recently about farmers buying up and overhauling pre-computer era tractors ,not as collectibles, but as working machines. Seems the tractor dealers aren't sharing their software info with smaller shops,thus requiring repairs to made only with the dealer,at inflated prices. These high tech tractors may have the edge on fuel economy, but the older machines still have lots of HP available, at a fraction of the cost.

Granted,most new cars don't cost $ 125-200K, but unless you're logging 100,000 miles a year,keeping the older (better looking) cars going is becoming a viable option.

 

 

Obviously I'm biased, but GM's half hearted effort with the G8 doomed it for failure - Holden were finally making a car that for the segment and price truly was market leading, even the basic fleet v6 versions we had for work drove quite nicely and they were available in a variety of body styles. A lot has been written about it already, but they had a bunch of different brands and approaches they could have taken to sell the car and they did a woeful job of it.

 

 

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They aren't brand new anymore, but new enough to be considered "new" cars among old car guys:

 

Chrysler Crossfire

Pontiac Solstice

Saturn Sky

 

I guess I like them because they're just-for-fun cars. Sporty, but not actual serious sports cars, as in "competitive." Being older and taller, I wouldn't fit into them well and egress is an even bigger problem, so i wouldn't be interested in owning one, though.

 

Image result for chrysler crossfire"

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1 hour ago, 95Cardinal said:

I can think of a few recent vehicles that I would enjoy:

 

2009-2010 Pontiac G8 GXP with 6 speed manual trans.

 

 

2010-2014 Cadillac CTS-V station wagon, again with manual trans

 

 

2018 Ford Focus RS hatchback in Nitrous Blue. 350 HP, 6 speed manual and 3435 lbs.

 

 

Even if others don't ultimately deem these to be "collectible", they all would offer a lot of joyful driving.

 

And just for fun and creating a stir, a 1992 Pontiac TranSport GT "Dustbuster" and a yellow Aztek GT!

 

I cannot argue with any of your choices.

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Jaguar F type or a Porsche Boxster would be nice weekend cars, and maybe the C6, C7 Corvette.  Not sure about the newest one yet.

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I'm seriously considering buying a 2002 Lincoln Town Car for  a daily driver. One  of the great luxury cars, extremely reliable and long lived and top marks for safety. I had one before and was happy with it. Last of the big rear wheel drive, traditional American sedans.

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I cannot think of one new vehicle that I’d like to own. My truck situation: In 2018 I sold my 2009 Ram, that I bought new, and went backwards 11 years. I bought a 1998 Ram 2500 cummins. 

 

My wife gets a new car when i deem its needed. I stick with Hondas for her. Pretty good reputation for being dang reliable for many many miles. However...The entertainment system also controls the HVAC. All a large digital touch screen. That car will be going as soon as that system starts acting up. Its a 2017 year. The screen/computer system whatever the heck it is, was replaced under warranty once already in 2018. I don’t have a real good feeling about it. 

 

The cars I really enjoy? My “go-cart simple” old vintage cars.  1938 simplicity cranks me up! I don’t even check out or look at any new vehicles. Absolutely zero interest. Plastic crap. 

Edited by keithb7 (see edit history)
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I like nearly all of the station wagons that are currently on the market as well as some from the past 20 years, including ones that were or are unavailable in North America.  

 

This includes the Peugeot 508 SW, Porsche Panamera Gran Turismo, Jaguar Sportbrake, Alfa Romeo 156 Sportwagon, Saab 9.5 Kombi, Europe-only Cadillac BLS wagon,  Mercedes Benz and BMW Touring, etc.

 

Craig

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6 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:

I wonder if today's muscle cars will ever really become collectable.

 

I know you're in the business, but you can't tell me the limited production modern muscle cars like the Hellephant won't be collectable.

The most desirable 60's muscle cars are the ones that were the peak of performance and built in limited numbers.

 

Today, what brings more money?

A run of the mill '69 350/Auto Camaro or a true '69 DZ 302 Z28?

 

 

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3 hours ago, philip roitman said:

I bought this 2016 Mercedes AMG GTS Edition1 2 years ago this coming June with 1470 miles on it. Paid about 35% off list. Only 268 built for the USA. I think this might be a collectible in the future. I think it's an instant classic. Only my kids will know for sure. In the meantime I am driving and enjoying every mile and minute of doing so. I now have about 5400 miles on it and is put away for the winter. Has an unlimited mileage factory warranty through June 2022

 

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Now THAT is a good looking car.  Does it drive as great as it looks?

 

Cheers,

Grog

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The Hellephant is just a crate motor, isn't it? 

 

As far as the Camaro comparison, you made my point for me--nobody's ordering base models for posterity. The base models are getting used up and thrown away, just like the 6-cylinder Mustang coupes nobody cared about. No, today everyone is ordering the equivalent of a loaded DZ 302 Z/28 with JL4 brakes and cross-ram induction, then protecting them and documenting them and doing all the things they wished they had done in 1969. The result will be that in 50 years when they're "collectable" there will be 18,000 of them available.

 

The reason the '69 Z/28 is valuable is because in 1969, people used them up and threw them away--the idea of future collectablility didn't even dawn on them. Hell, my father bought a brand new 1969 Camaro SS396 convertible and by 1974, I called it "the clunker" and he accidentally drove it into Lake Erie when a flood washed out the road. There was no inkling that it would be worth anything in the future. The few amazing old cars that were treated as something special bring big money because, well, there aren't that many of them. That won't be the case with late-model muscle cars because they're all being treated as collectable from the moment they hit the pavement. If all of them are special, none of them will be special. 


Old muscle cars are also valuable because there was a definite end to the era--after 1971, that was pretty much it for the big engines, radical cams, and high compression. Today, the factory keeps cranking out "limited edition" muscle cars, people keep buying them in huge numbers, and then next year the factory builds something even faster and even more amazing. All those cars are being saved, too. In the future, there will be a massive smorgasbord of every kind of 21st century muscle car in immaculate condition and prices will probably not be as strong as they are on what we regard as "old" cars today--cars like a '69 Camaro. Supply will far out-strip demand, especially if the factory keeps making awesome stuff or electric cars show up that stomp the compression cars into dust.

 

There will just be too many really nice, well-optioned, really fast late-model muscle cars laying around in perfect condition. The good news it'll be great for price and availability and hopefully people will continue to enjoy them. 

 

 

Edited by Matt Harwood (see edit history)
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I had an 08 Boxster for a very short time and only got to drive it a couple of times as I got it very late fall and was really selling it for an old gent but told him I would buy it with a few large payments by Spring of which I made a large downpayment when he dropped it off.  It was a friend of the family.   It happened someone wanted it more than me so I made a few bucks and got him his money in very short order.  He was happy with the arrangement.  I kind of wish I would have been able to keep it longer. 

My main choice of very few new cars I would want to own is a Saturn Sky Redline with manual transmission.  I could buy one tomorrow.  They aren't expensive and good ones can be had with very low mileage well kept for right around 10G.  I was looking last summer but really hated to pull the trigger then come up short on an older car.  Ill get one someday.  Maybe when they drop another 2500.  I imagine 7500 would be bottom of the market for a super nice original with low miles.   They are already not real common.  If you do a search and narrow it to redlines there are usually only one or two good ones in tristate areas with maybe Florida being the exception. 

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3 hours ago, Steve_Mack_CT said:

...I have gone through a string of sporty sedans, Audi, MB and two Caddys.  I really like the Caddy designs since the first generation CTS came out.  Agree with John on limited colors, but the Cadillac does not try to emulate a Japanese or European car, its 100% American...

 

Little known fact:  At least as late as 2010, General Motors

would do custom colors at the factory.  My local Chevrolet

sales manager didn't know GM did that, but in 2014 I interviewed

Bob Lutz for our AACA regional newsletter, and he told me this

fact directly.  (He's a big car fan and was Vice Chairman

until 2010.)  Later on, he told me that that custom-color

program might not be currently available, but he had been away

from GM for several years and didn't have the latest knowledge.

 

But custom colors at GM, at least as late as 2010?

That must have been a program that even ardent car fans

didn't know about.  That opens up a lot of interesting possibilities!

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Among new cars, I'd love to have a Tesla Model 3 Performance and a Porsche 911 cabriolet.  I don't think of them as future "collector" cars, but I'd love to own and drive them now.

 

A few people above have mentioned Boxsters, and I agree: They're fabulous driving cars that you can now buy used quite inexpensively.  I had one as a daily driver for 7 years, and it was a blast.  Fast, fun, attractive, and totally reliable.  

 

 

 

 

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7 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:

The Hellephant is just a crate motor, isn't it? 

 

As far as the Camaro comparison, you made my point for me--nobody's ordering base models for posterity. The base models are getting used up and thrown away, just like the 6-cylinder Mustang coupes nobody cared about. No, today everyone is ordering the equivalent of a loaded DZ 302 Z/28 with JL4 brakes and cross-ram induction, then protecting them and documenting them and doing all the things they wished they had done in 1969. The result will be that in 50 years when they're "collectable" there will be 18,000 of them available.

 

The reason the '69 Z/28 is valuable is because in 1969, people used them up and threw them away--the idea of future collectablility didn't even dawn on them. Hell, my father bought a brand new 1969 Camaro SS396 convertible and by 1974, I called it "the clunker" and he accidentally drove it into Lake Erie when a flood washed out the road. There was no inkling that it would be worth anything in the future. The few amazing old cars that were treated as something special bring big money because, well, there aren't that many of them. That won't be the case with late-model muscle cars because they're all being treated as collectable from the moment they hit the pavement. If all of them are special, none of them will be special. 


Old muscle cars are also valuable because there was a definite end to the era--after 1971, that was pretty much it for the big engines, radical cams, and high compression. Today, the factory keeps cranking out "limited edition" muscle cars, people keep buying them in huge numbers, and then next year the factory builds something even faster and even more amazing. All those cars are being saved, too. In the future, there will be a massive smorgasbord of every kind of 21st century muscle car in immaculate condition and prices will probably not be as strong as they are on what we regard as "old" cars today--cars like a '69 Camaro. Supply will far out-strip demand, especially if the factory keeps making awesome stuff or electric cars show up that stomp the compression cars into dust.

 

There will just be too many really nice, well-optioned, really fast late-model muscle cars laying around in perfect condition. The good news it'll be great for price and availability and hopefully people will continue to enjoy them. 

 

 

I've run out of hands and fingers to count how many ultra-low mileage 1978 Corvette Pace Cars and 25th Anniversary cars are around despite them being over 40 years old now.

 

Craig

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20 hours ago, John_S_in_Penna said:

 

Little known fact:  At least as late as 2010, General Motors

would do custom colors at the factory.  My local Chevrolet

sales manager didn't know GM did that, but in 2014 I interviewed

Bob Lutz for our AACA regional newsletter, and he told me this

fact directly.  (He's a big car fan and was Vice Chairman

until 2010.)  Later on, he told me that that custom-color

program might not be currently available, but he had been away

from GM for several years and didn't have the latest knowledge.

 

But custom colors at GM, at least as late as 2010?

That must have been a program that even ardent car fans

didn't know about.  That opens up a lot of interesting possibilities!

I do know Ford will paint a car or a truck a custom color, but its VERY expensive; especially for one unit.   Then again, Porsche's 'Paint to Sample' paint program starts at something like a $4500 cost adder.  One of those PTS Porsches here----------->   https://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/forum/your-studebaker-forum/stove-huggers-the-non-studebaker-forum/16241-interesting-items-at-the-british-car-show

 

Not sure now, but Ford in the 1960's and 1970's had a Fleet catalog with something like 200 color chips inside in all colors of the spectrum, plus various shades of cream/tan/ browns and several shades of gray, including all the Federal Spec. 595 colors for GSA vehicles. 

 

One of these fleet orders that I know of were 97 1969 Cougars delivered to Rocky Mountain Life Insurance Company.   http://www3.telus.net/nowland/site/index.htm

 

Craig

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69_Cougar_3.jpg

Edited by 8E45E (see edit history)

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The only vehicle on my radar right now would be the new C8 Corvette!  Unfortunately, you cannot buy one with a manual transmission!  I like the whole idea of a mid-engine sports car but I'm concerned how easy it would be to get in and especially out of!  Current daily driver fleet includes a 2015 Holden SS with a MANUAL Transmission and an LS3!  My wife's daily...  My son drives a 2006 Chrysler 300C with a HEMI (my dad's last new car before he passed away in 2012).  My daughter drives a 2000 Jeep Cherokee with 208,000 miles, but it runs great, passes both safety and emissions, and has no check engine lights on!  My two daily drivers include a 2005 Suburban with 125,000 miles and a 2001 Dodge 2500 with a 5.9 Cummins with about 44,000 miles.  Happy that I can maintain and typically repair everything! 

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Agree with Matt.  Anything new or close to new has the same chances of being a good long term investment as cars have historically been, very very unusual.

 

With that out of the way, obviously some of us find some newer stufc interesting.  I will likely spend my disposable/hobby $ on old cars, but have thought from time to time how cool it may be to buy a car you really like new and keep it long term.  I would drive vs. Stash away, the F type Jag comes to mind.  But tough to justify when its financially generaly a better move to go with any number of collector cars for same buy in.

Edited by Steve_Mack_CT (see edit history)
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Problem with a '69 Z28 was it was 4-speed only and no AC. I could have bought a leftover 69 in 1970 for $2995 asking ,was in the back of the lot and dealer wanted it gone. Have seen several cross auction blocks without the mandatory bumper option.

Instead I orderedt a '70 Buick GS455 with four speed, posi, gauges, and AC. in Wilderness Green and tan interior. Had the dealer replace the stock 15" tires with dog bone Dunlops. Autocrossed very successfully.

Suspect what was really meant was that you could order a car with any color that was in the GM inventory (cars with Cadillac Firemist colors were common).

Today's cars do not have not many two doors (had a couple of two door wagons, liked the Astre the best, think I still have the Nomad panels, somewhere...).

Have a 2nd gen CTS coupe. Be hard to convince me the designers weren't German.

 

Had a Crossfire Coupe with 6 speed and retractable spoiler. Were made in Germany for people under 5' 7". I carved 2" out of the non-structural rear bulkhead (was for the tonneau linkage in the SLK), reformed the seat for my screwy reclining driving position, and replaced the dead pedal with a plate. Three hours to south Florida was comfortable.

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Modern cars don't light my fire.  If I aspired to one, I guess it'd be a Challenger or a Mustang.  I like the retro styling - cop-bait red of course and enough HP to destroy the rear tires.  Like Matt Harwood said, probably too many will be preserved for them ever to be collectible, so I'd just have fun driving the heck out of it.  But my hot rod days are over.  Like everybody else, I'm into SUVs and pickups.  And yes, they're just appliances - as long as they're comfortable, utilitarian and reliable, I'm good.  I still like red though - my one concession to "sportiness".  My next vehicle likely will be a Hyundai or Kia "cute ute" - mainly because they're decent cars for the money and the warranty might well outlive me.  If I was going to get a pickup, it probably would be a Frontier.

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22 hours ago, GregLaR said:

This is probably the only newer model that appeals to me. 😄

 

source.gif

 

 

I always figured when George's flying saucer folded into a briefcase it would be to heavy for him to lift - or maybe it had an anti-grav device.  🤣

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If it has wheels, I love it.

 

as far as modern cars go, here are a few

 

I would love a 2002 E55 AMG - the wheels that year are the best.

 

any new Corvette, they are amazing machines and I’ve always considered them the ultimate American car

 

I also really like the idea of a Grand Cherokee Trackhawk.  707 HP AWD.  


The problem with be ever purchasing a newer vehicle like these is that I hate buying anything that I can’t sell for at least what I have in it.  I have a company car for work, and my wife drives a 2002 MDX that we’ve had since 2005.  We will drive that until the wheels fall off, then put more wheels back on it.  I bought a brand new truck in 2002 and immediately realized how dumb that was.  I’m not a new car customer.  

 

 

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18 hours ago, hidden_hunter said:

 

Obviously I'm biased, but GM's half hearted effort with the G8 doomed it for failure - Holden were finally making a car that for the segment and price truly was market leading, even the basic fleet v6 versions we had for work drove quite nicely and they were available in a variety of body styles. A lot has been written about it already, but they had a bunch of different brands and approaches they could have taken to sell the car and they did a woeful job of it.

 

 

 

You mentioned a 'variety of body styles'.  One was the 'ute' which would probably have gone over quite well in US. Basically a Corvette pickup - 6.2 litre LS engine etc.

 

Just one of many variations from HSV (Holden Special Vehicles) - this one is a 2017 - an HSV Maloo GTS-R. Photo taken in Methven, NZ, 29 December 2019.

 

Btw I have no particular desire to own one though.

 

 

 

 

 

KTU592.jpg

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I already have the modern car that I wanted, it took awhile to get there but now I am very happy. In early 2018 we owned a 2012 Mazda CX-9 and a 2016 Chevy SS sedan. Both very nice cars but I found I did not drive the SS often enough due to the necessary utility of the SUV. I still have a need for speed which the SS satisfied and I had considered the Mopar Hellcat variants but they were just too uncontrollable. Then in 2018 Dodge solved my problem by creating the Durango SRT. 392 Hemi, 475 hp, 0-60 in 4.4 seconds, 13.2 quarter mile at 103, Brembo brakes, all wheel drive, every option included and seating for 6. I traded in both cars for the Durango and so far it is the best vehicle we have ever owned. It is a comfortable cruiser, a scary fast ride when you want it to be, and a very capable and safe utility vehicle. Not many around, I highly recommend it.

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5 hours ago, Steve_Mack_CT said:

Agree with Matt.  Anything new or close to new has the same chances of being a good long term investment as cars have historically been, very very unusual.

 

With that out of the way, obviously some of us find some newer stufc interesting.  I will likely spend my disposable/hobby $ on old cars, but have thought from time to time how cool it may be to buy a car you really like new and keep it long term.  I would drive vs. Stash away, the F type Jag comes to mind.  But tough to justify when its financially generaly a better move to go with any number of collector cars for same buy in.

 

Agreed, better to own a slowly depreciating asset like an antique car than a quickly depreciating asset like a new car.  Our cars may be on a slow downward trend, but at least they don't half in value over the 1st 4-5 years of ownership.

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