Danteval1

ABS pump removal

Recommended Posts

Hello,

 

I need to replace my ABS motor and pump. Can someone tell me what size are the bolts that need to be removed? What other steps are required to remove it. I see a large torx on the top, does that need to be removed? I am going to the junk yard and replacing my entire assembly from an 88 at the junk yard. I am doing this tomorrow, seeing how its my only day off for a while. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You're saying two things here. First you say the entire assembly and then you say pump and motor.

 If it is just the pump and motor it is pretty straight forward. Unplug the connectors. Remove the bolt on the side of the pump with the curved washer [11mm] and then cut the rubber hose that goes down to the back side of the Teves unit.

 If you are removing the entire assembly then unplug the electrical connectors, cut the 3 metal brake lines [leaving you a short lead of tubing] and fold the tubing over to cut down on brake fluid loss, then inside the car remove the 4 mounting nuts holding the unit to the fire wall. I believe the size is 15mm and you will need extensions and a swivel either socket or extension. You also have to remove the clip that holds the push rod in place.

 Usually what gets these cars in the yard is a bad Teves unit or brake component [either the pressure switch or accumulator]. 

 I know Jim Finn [and myself] only take pump/motors out of the salvage yards as you cannot test the Teves unit in the yard to see if it all works. You can only test the pump/motor in the yard. We only sell complete units out of the cars we part out after driving them.

 Good luck.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok, I think I need to remove the whole assembly. I tried bleeding the pump of air, as per the instructions. Pumped the brakes about 25 times, loosened the accumulator, turned the key to engage the motor.  When I attempted to tighten the accumulator back on, brake fluid started spraying everywhere. In a panic, I attempted to tighten it further thinking it would seal it up, but I only stripped the accumulator hex on the top. So, my plan is to remove the old unit from the 88 and put in my 89. Crossing my fingers it works. I figure I can Frankenstein a  working abs unit with the two I will have. Any thing I should look out for when I am installing it in my 89? Or, if you have experienced this exact problem, what can be done? 

 

Interesting though, I drained some of the fluid fluid from the assembly, and the old brake fluid was black with little floaties in it. Guess it was due for some maintenance. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The accumulator is sealed with an o-ring and only needs to be hand tight to seal. My guess is your pump is just fine but the o-ring has been deformed or blown out by tightening while pressurized.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yup, the o ring was torn but I thought it could still make a seal. I removed the pump and accumulator set up. Since I tighten the accumulator so tight and stripped it, I cannot remove it. I may just take the other pump from the yard. A lot of rookie moves done today, but at least im learning. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Danteval1 said:

Yup, the o ring was torn but I thought it could still make a seal. I removed the pump and accumulator set up. Since I tighten the accumulator so tight and stripped it, I cannot remove it. I may just take the other pump from the yard. A lot of rookie moves done today, but at least im learning. 

 

You can remove the accumulator with a strap wrench or even a big pipe wrench if the assembly is already removed. It may get scarred up but it shouldn't hurt it. It only needs to be hand tight, same as the pressure switch, as long as the o-ring is intact and they will not seal without it. The lessons learned from mistakes will now be yours for life, not such a bad thing. As mentioned before, if the junkyard unit is an '88, be sure it has a steel pressure line and not the hose, they cannot be interchanged, unless the entire assembly is replaced.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And we are talking about the horizontal hose that lays on top of the pump. If it a steel pressure line you are good. If the line is a rubber one they cannot be swapped. You would then have to swap the entire unit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/11/2020 at 7:35 PM, DAVES89 said:

And we are talking about the horizontal hose that lays on top of the pump. If it a steel pressure line you are good. If the line is a rubber one they cannot be swapped. You would then have to swap the entire unit.

 

It’s a rubber hose so I’m replacing the whole unit. I attempted to remove abs unit from my car. In doing so, I bent and broke one of the brake lines. I am going to have to replace the brake lines on my car. Not an easy task for someone of my skill. Trial by fire I guess. 

 

I am am going to swap the pump, reservoir, and switch. I don’t see why a larger diameter fitting could be made to accommodate the new from an 88 to an 89’s pump/accumulator. 

 

So far, I am researching how create new brake lines. As always, and tips will help. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I cannot help you with what the broken line does or where it is routed, but I can tell you the steel lines use metric bubble flares and fittings. The nice thing about bubble flares is the ease of making them with hand tools vs the typical double flare from days gone by.

 

Regarding the connection difference at the pressure port of the pump: you will see the difference when the hose and steel line fittings are removed. There may be some sort of adapter out there that attaches with a banjo bolt and has a female metric bubble flare to transition to your steel line but I do not know where.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I guess there may be some hope for adapting early and late styles. I didn't dig too deep but google brings up this when searching for banjo to bubble flare adapter:

 

 

th.jpg

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OK, I am just going to stick with the unit from an 88 and put it in my 89. I need to remove the brake lines and install new ones. I can rent the bubble flare tool from my local auto store and I can get the right brake line. I just need to know where that connects. I believe those lines connect to the proportioning valve. So, Ill just have to disconnect at the valve, fashion some new one, use the old fitting, and bolt it up. Hopefully I can breeze through this. All this trouble because I herd a "psss" sound when I stepped on the brakes. Thank you for letting me know the banjo to bubble adaptations. It was helpful in case I need to Frankenstein this. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't make more work out of this if you can help it. Do a bubble flair at the break and put a short piece in from the break back to the Teves Master Cylinder

 Practice on the broken piece so you can get some experience.

Edited by DAVES89 (see edit history)
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
37 minutes ago, DAVES89 said:

Don't make more work out of this if you can help it. Do a bubble flair at the break and put a short piece in from the break back to the Teves Master Cylinder

 Practice on the broken piece so you can get some experience.

Good advice here. I don't think there is a proportioning valve anywhere near the front, there is something at the rear "axle". I replaced all the brake and fuel lines at the rear on my '89 with splices approx. under the driver. Butt splice fittings and such are readily available for the flares and work well, plus easy enough to do under the car where there was a straight run.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok, I am going to buy some steel brake lines. 

 

52 minutes ago, DAVES89 said:

Don't make more work out of this if you can help it. Do a bubble flair at the break and put a short piece in from the break back to the Teves Master Cylinder

 Practice on the broken piece so you can get some experience.

 

So, your saying I can leave the cut pieces but conjoin them through a fitting? I live in California so I have zero issue with rust. Im okay with keeping my brake lines. Could I use one of these fittings below and repair the few sections that I need rather than replace the whole line? 12 Pieces 3/8 Inch-24 Threads Brake Line Fittings Assortment for 3/16 Inch Tube (4 Unions, 8 Nuts)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Take your broken piece to the local Auto Parts store. They will set you up with the correct tubing and the connectors you will need. You will also need a tubing bender so you don't put a "kink" in the line.

 And yes you can splice the line without replacing the whole line.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Danteval1 said:

Ok, I am going to buy some steel brake lines. 

 

 

So, your saying I can leave the cut pieces but conjoin them through a fitting? I live in California so I have zero issue with rust. Im okay with keeping my brake lines. Could I use one of these fittings below and repair the few sections that I need rather than replace the whole line? 12 Pieces 3/8 Inch-24 Threads Brake Line Fittings Assortment for 3/16 Inch Tube (4 Unions, 8 Nuts)

12 packs are always good, oh wait, we're talking about brake lines☹️ What is depicted looks  exactly like what you need. Disassemble at least part of it for a sample as suggested.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok, I will do that. Thank you for all the suggestions. I went from being prepared to replacing all the brake lines to just splicing the sections i've destroyed. Ive seen comments by Jim Finn, and he said that old fittings can be reused, just clean them up and it will be easier than trying to find new fittings. Ill give this a shot, if not, I spoke with the manager at Auto zone, and all their fittings and unions are located in the back stock but he said he'll let me look around back there. Im going to try and finish this by tomorrow. This whole things has been a headache, but seems doable after this post. 

 

Best regards,

Dante Arthurs  

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dissembled and Scrubbed the abs unit. Tomorrow, I’m going to thrown new lines and bolt this guy in. 

B2D73325-F2CE-4212-8C29-BA2659D192A0.jpeg

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is there a special way to reattach the brake pedal to the unit? I can seem to fit it back through the hole. 

image.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is something I have not done. Did you compare the hole size of the original to the "new" one?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, DAVES89 said:

This is something I have not done. Did you compare the hole size of the original to the "new" one?

 

Yes, I did. They are Identical. I may just switch them out to be safe, but this is a challenge. I may create a new post in hopes some fresh eyes see it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The only thing I am finding online is that I need to shave the pivot point to insert the push rod. It was a pain to get off so i imagine it could be to get on. Ill take a small hand file to it to slightly open it up. 

 

Im seeing what other people do is have someone step on the brake all the way, then ill be able to connect it to the pivot through the fire wall in the engine bay.. 

Edited by Danteval1 (see edit history)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just to update the thread. I was able to put in the new ABS unit. I took a narrow file and shaved a little off the inside of the push rod. I got all the fittings to work as well. I wasn't able to get them flush, but I did tighten it as far as it can go. When I started the pump, oil started spraying from the banjo fitting like a submarine. After the trauma of no o-ring on my accumulator and my genius idea to over crank, I bought a pack of mixed O-rings. I put some extras on the banjo and it sealed it up, when i doubt O-rings (im learning). The pedal still sinks to the floor and I have no brake pressure. I need to purge air from the system. So far, I don't see an leaks, Im nervous about how the the compression fittings and fittings/lines connecting to the ABS will hold up, but Im confident if I have to redo it. 

 

The motor would engage contentiously when the banjo fitting missed its O-ring, after I fixed that, the pump motor would shut off. I have zero brake pressure, but I haven't bled the lines. I called it quits around 3 am. I hope that when I bleed the lines, I will have pressure. Thank you Daves89 and 2seater. This would have not been possible without your suggestions. It went in, I just need to get it operational. 

 

Since I have an extra Teves ABS, I am going to experiment with trying to accommodate a remote accumulator. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You have been busy. I have never had an early '88 pump pressure line apart so this is only conjecture: usually I see some form of crush washer, usually copper, on both sides of a banjo style fitting. Was there any remnant of a visible seal on the hose fitting?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Danteval1 said:

After the trauma of no o-ring on my accumulator and my genius idea to over crank, I bought a pack of mixed O-rings. I put some extras on the banjo and it sealed it up, when i doubt O-rings (im learning). 

 

I'm in agreement with 2seater on how a banjo fitting normally seals.  Unless you know for sure that the banjo fitting on the pump is designed to be used with an o-ring you might want to rethink using an o-ring for a seal.  The brakes is one place you don't want to take any chances with something going wrong.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now