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RivVrgn

65 switch pitch connection

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Hey all, I'm doing a light resto on my 65 but not removing drivetrain, just refreshing things. So expect other inquiries. Went to unplug it from trans and can't get it off. Don't want to force it if there is a certain way. It does turn a little, should it turn and pull off? Or just pull off with some encouragement? I can get some good leverage by grabbing it with some spark plug boot pliers. Just need to know if I should pry and pull?    thanks Joey

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The plug pulls off. DON'T try & twist it off you will break the tabs internally. Over time the rubber on the plug gets hard as a rock.  Spray some carb. cleaner on it to soften the rubber.

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30 minutes ago, telriv said:

The plug pulls off. DON'T try & twist it off you will break the tabs internally. Over time the rubber on the plug gets hard as a rock.  Spray some carb. cleaner on it to soften the rubber.

I will do that. So I guess the rubber is stuck to the plug in the trans and that is what is turning a bit? Can I try to pry a little on the edge of the plug with a screwdriver to break the seal of the plug?

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Nothing comes out of the transmission.  It's a simple electrical connector. Two male terminals in a T configuration on the part that's connected to the transmission, and two female receptacle in the plastic housing at the end of the wires. 

Edited by RivNut (see edit history)

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Yes, just give the carb. c;leaner some time to soften the rubber then carefully use the screwdriver IF it's still tight use a little more carb. cleaner.

 

Tom T.

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On this topic but on the other end of the wire harness, can someone post a snipit from a '65 manual showing the variable pitch / kickdown switch and dashpot arrangement? My '63 shop manual is to old and my '64 manual shows it for the ST300. Same? Also wire diagram/schematic for this wire harness?

Thanks,

John B.

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65 is totally different from a 64. 64s did not have the switch pitch feature.  Check Google for a possible illustration

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Thanks Ed. But, of my 2 shop manuals (1963 & 1964), my '64 manual shows the Switch-Pitch setup for the ST-300 which also had the 2 internal transmission solenoids. The same wiring for the 1965 ST-400? Also, Carburetor primary shaft linkage on the nailhead, the same components and setup as on the Buick 300 (again, '64 manual)?

Under hood online images of 1965 Rivieras have the linkage area blocked by the air cleaner.

The 1st image is of a 1964 300 cu in w/AFB and has the kickdown switch removed with no evidence of a dashpot/microswitch. Same setup on 1965 Rivieras?

The 2nd image is not an AFB but shows all components on the linkage to the Rochester 2BBL.

John B.

 

LeSabre64_4BBL_4.jpg

Skylark64_2BBL_2.jpg

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Don't try to compare the 64 ST400 with the 64 ST300.  There is no switch pitch for a 64 ST400, just a kickdown. The 64 ST400 does not have a micro switch either.  Just a simple plunger which activates the kickdown.

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I found this thread (Nov 2017) where Bluesy66 has a '65 ST-400 in a '64 Riviera and questioning linkage arrangements. At least the '64 has the combination kickdown/switch-pitch with a harness for just the kickdown contacts. He is halfway there with the '64 setup. I'm replacing a Dynaflow with mechanical switch-pitch. Not so lucky.

However, his image is for a '64 nailhead. Still looking for the same image for a '65 nailhead and wire harness schematic.

 

If what you're saying Ed, it appears the '65 does have a dashpot with the micro-switch. So based on my assumption that the '64 ST-300 is the same, I'll start a search for a dashpot (have the switch) and build a wire harness according to my '64 manual in the ST-300 section. I modified a crimper for packard-56 connectors so it should look OEM. Only wish I had that stubborn bootie Joey (RivVrgn above) had to deal with!

 

 

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As the caption in the picture says, "Working on a 64 rivi with 401 and a 65 th400 tranny."  Who ever is making the conversion was smart enough to get the '65 kick down switch (and apparently the carburetor) for the conversion.  The '64 switch works the opposite of a 65 and later switch.  The 64 has no switch pitch so there's no need for a multiple terminal switch nor is there a need for the micro switch on the linkage.  If you understand how a "Switch Pitch" ST400 was designed to work, you'll know why there's no micro switch on the throttle linkage.  

 

Here are some pictures of a nailhead in a 64 Riviera.  You'll notice there's a totally different throttle blade linkage bracket on the carb for a '64 when compared to a 65 - 67.

 

Driver's side shows the switch (orange boot) and on the carb linkage there's a roller.  When the throttle is opened the linkage moves  in a clockwise direction.  The roller on the linkage will eventually contact the plunger in the switch (orange boot) and depress it.  When depressed, there is 12V sent to the solenoid on the transmission and the kickdown is activated.  The yellow wire gets 12V from the same fuse as the windshield wipers via the yellow wire.  A brown wire goes from the switch to the transmission.  That's all there is to the kickdown.  The switch is on an adjustable bracket so the kickdown can be "tuned."  

 

The roller is hard to distinguish in the picture but it "appears" to be resting on the dashpot.

 

881103024_64Rivieracarblinkage005.thumb.jpg.97c535914d37d966bc63d6c42b3cc6d4.jpg

 

This picture from the back shows the adjustment slots in the bracket and the yellow and brown wires lying between the intake manifold and the valve cover.

 

1911262168_64Rivieracarblinkage004.thumb.jpg.050bc11e54f969ab37ea06e881492cac.jpg

 

The worm clamp on the power brake hose and the attachment of the negative battery cable are incorrect on this engine.

Edited by RivNut
grammar (see edit history)

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I went back and reread your earlier post.  There is no wiring to a dash pot.  It's a spring loaded device that slows down the closing of the throttle blades.  Here's a picture of one that is mounted on a bracket.  The picture shows all there is to it.

 

Image result for dashpot buick

 

The micro switch is part of the throttle linkage.  It has nothing to do with the dash pot.  If you're installing a 65 transmission in a 64, you need the carburetor for a 65 with a 425 (64 401's and 425's have a different carbs - theadditional cubic inches call for different metering rods, jets, etc.) Your 64 has a 425 so you need a 1965 carb for a 425.  That would be a Carter AFB #3923. You should also get the throttle linkage from the firewall to the carburetor.  The micro switch will be part of that linkage.  You should also get the complete wiring harness for the kickdown/switch pitch features.  

 

Have you noticed that a console for a '65 is longer than that of a '64?  It's necessary due to the fact that the 65 has provisions for three forward gears on the shifter and the 64 has provisions for only two forward gears.  The 65 has additional length in the console to accommodate the longer throw for a three speed gear shift.  It also requires a different bracket that bolts to the floor board.

 

63 console on the left, 64 in the middle, 65 on the right.  You can seen the additional length in the 65 console for the longer throw need for the 3 speed shifter.

 

IMG_0461.thumb.JPG.dcb55c4a3313998b26e307216c2d5a81.JPG

Edited by RivNut (see edit history)

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Ed & others.  They now make a dash pot that includes the micro switch built in to eliminate the problems of adjusting the switch properly.  It doesn't need the micro switch at all.  I've installed a couple of them now & they work good. Lot less hassles  & works properly as it should.

 

Tom T.

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Tom and Ed,

  Buick used a dash pot with switch in their smaller powertrains...probably what is being referred to in this thread

Tom M

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Correct on smaller powertrains and also for the 2-speed ST-300. I'm assuming the car would launch in high pitch, switch to low pitch and stay there until approaching WOT where I think the kick-down setpoint is above that.

RivVrgn PM'd excellent images to me of the linkage area of his '65 nailhead. I got it now. I simply did not have a '65 shop manual for reference.

So no micro-switch on the dashpot but there is one at the back of the linkage. I'll go back to the wrecker here and remove one from a  LeSabre 300 cu in just in-case I need it down the road. Not sure how that figures in the setup. I will have all parts shortly

Enough details. On with the swap!

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If you have both an a/p ST300 and a s/p ST400 and you're looking for more "launch" take the converter from the ST300 and put it in the ST400.  It's an inch smaller in diameter so you'll get a higher rpm high stall. But because it's smaller it will run hotter behind a bigger engine, so you'll want to run an auxiliary transmission cooler with it.   Your ST400 flexplate is already be drilled for the smaller converter. 

 

Go over to V8Buicks.com and search for some articles on this swap.  You'll still have the same 1:1 drive when the converter switches back to low stall for the highway (or as soon as you take your foot out of it.)

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Nothing's easy with this swap. Removed a LeSabre 340 cu. in. at the wreckers to get at a 13" switch-pitch torque converter and front pump from the BOP ST-400. Easy enough. Then found an Olds Jetaway with a seized 330. Made 3 trips to the self-serve wrecker in sub-zero temps to get it out, no torches allowed. Cost $25.  I then took that 12" torque converter to a shop where they had a 12" ready-to-go! Received $75 core exchange after all that hard work!

The 12" is also 25 lbs lighter - better throttle response! The Russ Martin Flexplate is dual pattern. Should be a big improvement over that 'Dynaslow'.

One more detail. I wonder how the bead chain for the Electro-Cruise hooks-up on '65 Rivieras with that micro-switch in-the-way? Nice to know OEM setup before I improvise. However, too early for that.

Still dealing with 2 bad '65 shifters. I snapped the push-rod on the seized unit, all junk.

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so, back to my plug. now i have fluid leak since i unplugged. what did i do? break the internal plug? has to be plug, was not leaking before. Can I remove the female plug to replace, if so?

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You disturbed the seal by twisting the plug.  IF it didn't leak before it would have started very shortly.  You need to access that from inside the trans. by dropping the pan. Then buy a new o-ring & re-install.

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16 hours ago, telriv said:

You disturbed the seal by twisting the plug.  IF it didn't leak before it would have started very shortly.  You need to access that from inside the trans. by dropping the pan. Then buy a new o-ring & re-install.

ok good. I guess with 50 years it doesn't take much, i didn't twist too much but... thanks, glad I can access from the pan. Thanks again, Joey

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