CraigD

Lifting the car

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I am putting my '29 Speedster on jack stands as I get new tires (and chrome plate the lock rings). 2 questions about lifting:

1) In the front, can I lift the car from the middle of the front axle tube?

2) In the rear, can I lift the car from the bottom of the differential?

If these centered jack locations won't damage the car, it's easy for me to then put jack stands under the springs in each of the four corners.

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I've lifted my 11A Sedan by both those locations in the past, with no obvious unwanted happenings.

 

Roger

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Craig,  Yes, yes.  

 

And you have another pm.

 

Paul

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Curious as to what brand of tires you bought. I need a set for my '29 and am looking for recommendations. There have been quite a few discussions on this forum on this topic.  

 

 

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I will be in the tyre market in the not too distant future too for the 1931 153 Deluxe Coupe I have recently purchased.

 

I'd wondered about the Lester tyres? But don't really have any experience of one brand over another (my 11A Sedan currently has 2 Lesters and 2 Firestones on it).

 

I guess though the first thing I have to decide is whether to get whitewalls for it, or blackwalls. It currently has whitewall tyres on it that to my mind at least look OK against the entire blackness of the car, and wonder if blackwall tyres on the black car might be "too much". This is what it currently looks like (the roof it not finished, which explains its wrinkled state).

 

1043727642_o.thumb.jpg.bcb7967c4bce3004d05e7c9f53357378.jpg

 

 

I don't have the car yet (it's still in Oregon, but coming my way in the next week or so). Can anyone tell from this picture of the front tyres what brand they might be?

 

1043727649_o.thumb.jpg.be4f997ec492eb3fe9352eecc94aede5.jpg

 

Thanks

 

Roger

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I never lift my '28 from the middle of the front axle, always do one side a time. I have no problem lifting from under diff though.

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Posted (edited)

Nice Rodger. 

 

The trend is to get back to black walls, which if you look at enough early pix of Franklins (and other makes) were what was most commonly on the cars when new and most roads were poor which made a mess of tires. Take a look at Walt G's thread in the general section of old photos and see how many had white walls back then. 

 

But, history aside, it really only matters what you want to look at. 

 

However, you might want to consider painting that grill shell screen black, as they all were originally. Not just so it doesn't show up looking like an aluminum house window screen, … it'll show off the louvers better, too.  😁

 

Paul

Edited by PFitz (see edit history)
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Posted (edited)

Rodger,

I thought they looked familiar so I just looked at Coker's website and those white walls look like the same tread and edge pattern as Firestones.

 

Paul 

Edited by PFitz (see edit history)
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Posted (edited)

Paul - I'd just got to Coker tyres myself, and first of all noticed that blackwall tyres are $100 cheaper than whitewalls. That appeals to my Scottish ancestry and to my living in heavily Dutch West Michigan.

 

But the tyres in my picture aren't the same as what Coker shows for Firestones... - mine have 2 circumferential grooves, the Firestones have 3

 

image.thumb.png.35db011ec8e048271d1557ab93fdd465.png

 

Roger

 

(And apologies to Craig - we seem to have strayed off his topic somewhat).

Edited by theKiwi (see edit history)
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The Firestone's with authentic 1930's period tread pattern are very nice - I am several sets in now and quite pleased.  I also have a few sets of Bedfords running, as well as a few sets of Michelin's.  And, in the "these are old" department a few ancient sets of Denman's.    

 

I know this comment will get people all fired up, though there are probable 100 plus Franklins touring regularly on their Custom Classic (and Lee tires) of relatively new (within past 10 years when last available) to really way too old - and other than a few people having poor luck with them wear wise most people have done really well with them - and they look nice too via unique tread and sidewall pattern - why not just wear them out and focus your time on other projects  ? 

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Posted (edited)

Roger,

If you notice, the Coker pix are all the same no matter what tread width you look up. And, your tires may be an older pattern ?  The current Firestones in 650-19 have four tread grooves. Here's pix of a black Franklin with Firestone black wall tires that were bought new only a several years ago. Notice the four groove tread. The giveaway is the pattern of the outer edge of the sidewall. That hasn't changed much in many years.

 

I have pix of a 30 Pirate I restored long ago with 650-19 Firestones that have the same tread and sidewall pattern as that 31 Series 151 Conv Coupe (third picture). But the ones on the Pirate are a smaller outer diameter by almost two inches.  

 

To add to the fun, I have six Firestones here that are labeled 550-600 19  on the sidewalls. Only ordered a few years ago as 650 19, but Coker sent these. They have the same four groove tread (last picture). However, the strange part is they are the exact same tread width and outside dimensions as an older set of 650-19 Lesters on a 32 Speedster in my shop. And Lesters are on the large end of 659-19 tire size range. I know because I just checked those sizes  for fitting the set of tire covers I just made for 29 Franklin's new Firestones on his 31 Sedan.

 

But all of them have that same Firestone pattern to the outer edge of the sidewall. And none of the tread patterns completely match the Coker ad picture.

 

 

DSCN6242.JPG

DSCN6243.JPG

DSCN7415.JPG

DSCN8904.JPG

Edited by PFitz (see edit history)

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Posted (edited)

As to lifting the Franklin - I generally always lifted it at the axle to spring mount, though given design you should be able to lift it in axle centers - on rear just make sure you are centered and putting no stress on the real axle cross straightening rod. 

Edited by John_Mereness (see edit history)

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6 minutes ago, John_Mereness said:

I know this comment will get people all fired up, though there are probable 100 plus Franklins touring regularly on their Custom Classic (and Lee tires) of relatively new (within past 10 years when last available) to really way too old - and other than a few people having poor luck with them wear wise most people have done really well with them - and they look nice too via unique tread and sidewall pattern - why not just wear them out and focus your time on other projects  ? 

 

I won't be buying new tyres until I have the car and see what's on there, but I've been told they should be replaced, and there was allowance for that in my buying price.

 

And I'm looking for reliability - I plan to drive the car once I get the restoration completed, including from Michigan to Cazenovia for the Trek, so at least hopefully new tyres and tubes will mean that's one less thing to go wrong on the 560 - 675 mile trip (depending if one goes through Canada or not).

Roger

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As to Lesters, they are a baseline tire and while they rode well and were quiet, the 1931 Cadillac with them was squirrel in the rain matched to the whitewalls checking too early - that was middle 1970's though albeit the one and only set we have ever bought as a result.

 

I recently took two Lesters off the sidemounts in the RR PI - they had never hit the ground, though had some cracking and were hard as a rock (which is not surprising as they were put on in 1974).  Interestingly, I sold the two on ebay as it turns out the size is no longer made and someone wanted to move their side-mounts to the front and continue wearing out their set.

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Ok, remove "Firestone" and add "Custom Classic". I was right, .... and I was wrong. :wacko:

 

I was right that I knew they looked familiar, so I went digging through more of my Trek pix. But I was wrong about them being Firestones. Here they are on a 30 Club Sedan at a Trek in 2012 . If you enlarge the picture you can just make out the words Custom Classic at ten o'clock on the rear tire.

 

Paul

DSCN0144.JPG

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15 minutes ago, PFitz said:

If you notice, the Coker pix are all the same no matter what tread width you look up. And, your tires may be an older pattern ?  The current Firestones in 650-19 have four tread grooves. Here's pix of a black Franklin with Firestone black wall tires that were bought new only a several years ago. Notice the four groove tread. The giveaway is the pattern of the outer edge of the sidewall. That hasn't changed much in many years.

 

 

Thanks Paul. Before I buy anything I guess I'll be calling to get them to tell me more about the tyres, and compare the sizes.

 

One thing your photos of the 151 help with is the whitewall/blackwall situation - it has the blackwalls and with the varnished wood spokes, which my car has, and the chrome lock rings (I'm not sure my car has them, or they're painted silver) it is enough to break up what would otherwise be solid black side of the car.

 

Roger

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When you install new tires, it pays to talc the tubes, flaps, and tire casing.  Prior to doing so, run your hands over all the pieces and make sure there are no rough rubber edges and also no stickers (stickers = death).  I usually drop the tubes and flaps into a garbage bag with some Johnson's Baby Powder and shake; and drop some talc in the casing and give them a good rolling.  Also, I travel with an extra tube, but 50/50 if the tire will survive if you have a problem. 

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4 minutes ago, John_Mereness said:

As to Lesters, they are a baseline tire and while they rode well and were quiet, the 1931 Cadillac with them was squirrel in the rain matched to the whitewalls checking too early - that was middle 1970's though albeit the one and only set we have ever bought as a result.

 

I recently took two Lesters off the sidemounts in the RR PI - they had never hit the ground, though had some cracking and were hard as a rock (which is not surprising as they were put on in 1974).  Interestingly, I sold the two on ebay as it turns out the size is no longer made and someone wanted to move their side-mounts to the front and continue wearing out their set.

Reports are the Lesters got better once Lester sold the company and Universal took over.  I haven't driven them, but I'm seeing them on a lot of cars the past few years.

 

Paul

 

 

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Posted (edited)

Your car will use a 6:50 x 19 tire (and I believe reproductions are actually larger in OD and width than the originals) and you can go as large as a 7:00 x 19 (unless you have sidemounted spare tires).

Edited by John_Mereness (see edit history)
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2 minutes ago, PFitz said:

Ok, remove "Firestone" and add "Custom Classic". I was right, .... and I was wrong. :wacko:

 

 

Ah yes - that's what my car has. I've not heard of them - are they still available? A quickish Google search doesn't turn them up.

 

Roger

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2 minutes ago, theKiwi said:

 

Thanks Paul. Before I buy anything I guess I'll be calling to get them to tell me more about the tyres, and compare the sizes.

 

One thing your photos of the 151 help with is the whitewall/blackwall situation - it has the blackwalls and with the varnished wood spokes, which my car has, and the chrome lock rings (I'm not sure my car has them, or they're painted silver) it is enough to break up what would otherwise be solid black side of the car.

 

Roger

 Looking  at enlargement of your pix it looks like the snap ring reflections of chrome. If they were painted silver they would be a more uniform color because silver doesn't reflect the way chrome does - it scatters the light evenly. Chrome reflects what's behind the photographer, so doesn't look as even a color.

 

Paul

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5 minutes ago, PFitz said:

Ok, remove "Firestone" and add "Custom Classic". I was right, .... and I was wrong. :wacko:

 

I was right that I knew they looked familiar, so I went digging through more of my Trek pix. But I was wrong about them being Firestones. Here they are on a 30 Club Sedan at a Trek in 2012 . If you enlarge the picture you can just make out the words Custom Classic at ten o'clock on the rear tire.

 

Paul

DSCN0144.JPG

These are the 4" Custom Classics (as you mention) - I believe the three rings are actually on the inside (ie they just did a whitewall on what would have been the backside) -the 4" whitewall was made for a longer period of time than the 3" whitewall with the rings -  my understanding is that the "molds were supposedly destroyed", but any way about it sounds like they will never be made again. 

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3 minutes ago, John_Mereness said:

Your car will use a 6:50 x 19 tire (and i believe reproductions are actually larger in OD and width than the originals) and you can go as large as a 7:00 x 19.

 Not for any Franklins with side mounts. To get a 700 to fit in the wells you have to let most of the air out of the tires.  Been there.

 

Some of the older Lesters 650-19 were really big. Word was they were made from a modified 700 truck mold. When I talked to Coker about the new Lesters verses the old Lesters, the sales guy said he had heard that, too. And, the new ones I'm seeing in recent years seem to be a true 650.

 

Paul

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Posted (edited)
51 minutes ago, theKiwi said:

 

Ah yes - that's what my car has. I've not heard of them - are they still available? A quickish Google search doesn't turn them up.

 

Roger

Edited:  Yes, Lucas appears to have a Blackwall under the Lucas name in the 6:50 x 19 (and it sports the three rings).   And no, the 3" Custom classic whitewall with the 3 striped rings was stopped in production perhaps 15 years ago and the 4" whitewall (without the 3 striped rings) ran for a few more years, though it no longer is available either.  There may be some NOS sets out there though.  The first runs were under the "LEE" name were done perhaps in the late 1960's.  Surprisingly, a large number of Franklin's are running on them still (they fit 1929-1933), plus I often see them on Studebaker's, Packard's, and smaller HP Rolls-Royce's. 

Edited by John_Mereness (see edit history)

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