Mecum Auction

[John_Mereness]

In all fairness to auctions, they are part of the selling process and do what they do very well.  I have sent cars to auction merely because people do not want to deal with a sale and for them it is more clean, they want to speculate on price and hope better than all the locals that stopped by wanting to get it for free, and ... There is also the flip side of the coin and it is the "crap" part in - does not run and everyone has tried hard to get it to run too, some sort of other undesirable-ness, and ...   When I send a car to auction there is a lot of touch conversation about marketing, placement, timing, and ... - you ignore such and you loose (but problematic as they prefer to do it their way and not my way).  Also, when I send a car to auction, I generally prepare it for auction.  

 

Here are a three points I keep in mind:  

How nice of an automobile was it through it's entire life

How well was it restored at some point regardless of how it looks or runs now (people get old and life gets in the way - sometimes things get neglected).

Tour success via AACA, CCCA, marque Club 

 

[alsancle]

2 hours ago, John_Mereness said:

It probably cost something like this given original purchase price (unless dumb luck to begin with) matched to restoration costs.

 

Yep.  You are probably right.

 

Not a Corvette guy either,  but this one floats my boat too:

 

https://www.mecum.com/lots/FL0120-397346/1957-chevrolet-corvette-big-brake-fuelie/

[auburnseeker]

I still have a soft spot for C1's after my 60 Fuellie Burnt and would love to have another some day.  One car I didn't really want to sell (it ran and sounded like  a bear, especially going through the gears on a back road) but the decision was made easier by the fire.  

 

I've really got to find a better picture.  Ironic how much cars changed in 10 years back then. the Plymouth is a 48 and the Vette a 60 but really 1958 Styling. 

Edited January 4, 2020 by auburnseeker (see edit history)

[edinmass]

2 hours ago, alsancle said:

 

Yep.  You are probably right.

 

Not a Corvette guy either,  but this one floats my boat too:

 

https://www.mecum.com/lots/FL0120-397346/1957-chevrolet-corvette-big-brake-fuelie/

 

You have VERY poor taste.

[alsancle]

59 minutes ago, edinmass said:

 

You have VERY poor taste.

In friends definetly!

[Jeff Perkins / Mn]

6 hours ago, John_Mereness said:

Just the more mediocre stuff and the plain-Jane closed cars = the convertibles, really rare stuff, really well restored stuff, stuff that can win at Concours events, and... have always done fine and always will do fine. 

You  are exactly right John, the bread and butter cars of that era are not doing well. Tough sell on those. 

[auburnseeker]

2 hours ago, edinmass said:

 

You have VERY poor taste.

Well if you have to play on lower levels then you have to settle.  Easier to settle for a C1 than alot of other cars from the era.  

Now show me a deal on an open prewar car like a Packard that I can afford (figuring a PA is out of my range)  i might change my opinion as well.  

[edinmass]

3 hours ago, alsancle said:

In friends definetly!

 

Your yearly friend payment is late.....it’s 2020 and I don’t have the check yet. Be sure to pay in full before you visit me next month, or no ride in JN-565!

Edited January 5, 2020 by edinmass (see edit history)

[1937hd45]

I caught that, what is the N in JN-565? Bob 

[edinmass]

JN’s were the last ten Model J’s made......the N stands for new. Google JN-533 to see the twin.

[FLYER15015]

Geeze, everybody knows what a JN533 is.

It's a Platinum rocker gasket from Super Cheap Auto, and it's only $21.99

OR so Mr. Google says .............

[padgett]

Thought it was  a Curtis Jenny.

[FLYER15015]

5 minutes ago, padgett said:

Thought it was  a Curtis Jenny.

No, Jenny's number is JN4

[edinmass]

I dated a great girl named Jenny. 
 

[SC38dls]

I thought it was a song by “Little Richard”. 
Jenny Jenny Jenny won’t you come along with me ....

Edited January 5, 2020 by SC38DLS (see edit history)

[alsancle]

12 hours ago, edinmass said:

Your yearly friend payment is late.....it’s 2020 and I don’t have the check yet. Be sure to pay in full before you visit me next month, or no ride in JN-565!

 

There is more to life than just coachbuilt Duesenberg my friend.   You need to broaden your perspective.    I have all of these on my list:

 

1.  R2 Avanti

2.  Randall Gremlin

3.  Saab Sonnet 

4.  53 Skylark

5.  69 RAIV Vert

6.  51 Wayfarer

7.  41 Imperial Business coupe

 

Admittedly,  I have some of your elitist tendencies.  Each one of these needs to be a particular configuration.  For example,  the R2 has to be a 63 4 speed with the traction lok in a decent color.  That narrows things down from 500 cars to about 50.  The GTO has to be Liberty Blue with the 4 speed.  There are maybe 3 or 4.   By making it a needle in a haystack,  I don't actually have to get wallet out - just have fun searching.

Edited January 5, 2020 by alsancle (see edit history)

[padgett]

That's how I got into Pontiacs - love to wander in swap meets but never found much.

[edinmass]

1 hour ago, alsancle said:

 

There is more to life than just coachbuilt Duesenberg my friend.   You need to broaden your perspective.    I have all of these on my list:

 

1.  R2 Avanti

2.  Randall Gremlin

3.  Saab Sonnet 

4.  53 Skylark

5.  69 RAIV Vert

6.  51 Wayfarer

7.  41 Imperial Business coupe

 

Admittedly,  I have some of your elitist tendencies.  Each one of these needs to be a particular configuration.  For example,  the R2 has to be a 63 4 speed with the traction lok in a decent color.  That narrows things down from 500 cars to about 50.  The GTO has to be Liberty Blue with the 4 speed.  There are maybe 3 or 4.   By making it a needle in a haystack,  I don't actually have to get wallet out - just have fun searching.

 

With a list like that, your friendship charge is going to increase drastically............as only one of those is pre war..........

[John_Mereness]

1 hour ago, alsancle said:

3.  Saab Sonnet 

We had a neighbor friend with a Saab Monte Carlo and also I believe had a Sonnet for a while (don't remember seeing it) - he timed the Franklin for me when we got it running - I did it by ear and he did not like it and did something to it (maybe reworked the distributor) and then re-timed it - lasted that way for years. 

[John_Mereness]

13 hours ago, edinmass said:

 

Your yearly friend payment is late.....it’s 2020 and I don’t have the check yet. Be sure to pay in full before you visit me next month, or no ride in JN-565!

[alsancle]

3 hours ago, edinmass said:

 

With a list like that, your friendship charge is going to increase drastically............as only one of those is pre war..........

 

You know my pre-war list:

 

1.  Big Stearns Knight

2.  Willys Knight 66

3.  Late Franklin with Dietrich body

4.  Any Model G Dupont

5.  Any Stutz with an interesting body

6. Some stuff that is doubtful to fall within my range

[John_Mereness]

45 minutes ago, alsancle said:

 

You know my pre-war list:

 

1.  Big Stearns Knight

2.  Willys Knight 66

3.  Late Franklin with Dietrich body

4.  Any Model G Dupont

5.  Any Stutz with an interesting body

6. Some stuff that is doubtful to fall within my range

Fun list !

 

I am pretty open (finishing the 1936 Auburn 852 Phaeton now and it will have a very long term stop in the garage), but would like a Club Sedan of some make to bum around town with (something NOT with 20K cylinder heads and other "fun" mechanics that suck the life out of you).  A sedan may just work, but it would have to be a pretty solid original car - only so many lifetimes and .... aka whole different criteria with me when dealing with closed cars. 

 

I put a bug in Ed's ear regarding a 1931 Pierce Arrow Model 42 Berline Club Sedan. 

[alsancle]

1 hour ago, John_Mereness said:

Fun list !

 

I am pretty open (finishing the 1936 Auburn 852 Phaeton now and it will have a very long term stop in the garage), but would like a Club Sedan of some make to bum around town with (something NOT with 20K cylinder heads and other "fun" mechanics that suck the life out of you).  A sedan may just work, but it would have to be a pretty solid original car - only so many lifetimes and .... aka whole different criteria with me when dealing with closed cars. 

 

I put a bug in Ed's ear regarding a 1931 Pierce Arrow Model 42 Berline Club Sedan. 

I had a shot at the Model 41 Lebanon and couldn’t stomach another project.  Those big eight Pierces are pretty cool.

 

I would add to my list

 

1. 31-37 pierce with interesting body.

 

2. any 851/852 with a supercharger.   I have an NOS EX32 with the 1 3/8 Venturi sitting in my shelf.

 

3. any Springfield Rolls with an interesting body.

[John_Mereness]

On 1/5/2020 at 4:28 PM, alsancle said:

 

3. any Springfield Rolls with an interesting body.

Some of the plain bodies are great too - An Avon Sedan done in the proper Midnight Blue or Maroon would be a knock out. 

Edited January 7, 2020 by John_Mereness (see edit history)

[alsancle]

16 minutes ago, John_Mereness said:

Some of the plain bodies are great too - An Avon Sedan done in the proper Midnight Blue or Maroon would be a knock out. 

Avon and Dover qualify as interesting for sure.

[John_Mereness]

There are a couple PI's out there with Dover bodies such as mine (which was a body designed for a PII chassis).

 

But, an earlier PI style Dover is pretty swanky when some thought is put into its "looks."

 

 

Edited January 7, 2020 by John_Mereness (see edit history)

[John_Mereness]

Here is another PI with the PII Dover style body (this looks to be a duplicate of my car excepting a second windshield wiper,  I had dual windhsield post mirrors - in chrome), and I had landau Irons.  

Edited January 8, 2020 by John_Mereness (see edit history)

[1937hd45]

I like that blanked out rear quarter window. Bob 

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Don't you see more of this out of Mecum?  I snuck in some couch time Christmas day and snapped this pic for a pal who has its twin.  Mostly resto-mods, back to Twighlight Zone reruns after about 10 cars...

[AHa]

just so you know, one man's trash is another man's treasure. Sometimes beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. "Perfect" is a moving target. Most sellers have a higher estimation of value than most buyers. Nobody likes used car dealers.

 

 

 

Edited January 7, 2020 by AHa (see edit history)

[mikewest]

Never say NOBODY..... Used car dealers are some of my favorite people !

 

[Matt Harwood]

2 hours ago, AHa said:

Nobody likes used car dealers.

 

 

 

 

[AHa]

Every seller tries to talk up the product as high as they can to sell it; every buyer talks the car down to buy it. Its the nature of the beast. It all depends on which side of the equation you find yourself. Professional sellers become proficient as well as professional buyers at what they do. Even Pilate said, "What is truth?" It depends on whether you're buying or selling.

[John_Mereness]

22 hours ago, 1937hd45 said:

I like that blanked out rear quarter window. Bob 

[Ed Luddy]

On 1/3/2020 at 3:41 PM, Matt Harwood said:

OK, I didn't mean to offend anyone or imply that your cars are junk. I'm sorry. My point was that auctions have this reputation for having spectacular, perfect cars, and statistically it just ain't possible. I haven't somehow magically been able to find and sell the only 800 old cars with problems over the past six years.

 

And perhaps we're arguing over the definition of "junk." I don't mean that any car that isn't perfect should be on the scrap heap, you know that.

 

I DO mean that virtually all cars have problems that owners ignore and which buyers will find hard to swallow.

 

My perspective might be colored by the fact that people tell me they have a "mint" car to sell, and then just another average car with a growing list of needs shows up. That seller is no smarter or dumber than any of you, so why do so many guys in this hobby completely misjudge the quality of their own hardware? The statistics simply suggest a whole lot of people in this hobby don't know their cars have problems--again, there's just no way I'm dealing with the only clueless guys in existence. For this many people to be so wrong about the quality of the cars they own, it has to be pretty widespread. Maybe it's you, maybe it's not--but if it is, how would you know if you can't even recognize that your car has issues?

 

Then I have buyers who come in to see the cars I sell--which I am careful to cultivate and I turn away about 40% of the stuff as not being nice enough--and they nit-pick the hell out of everything. Even experienced guys like those on this board come in and play those stupid games with me. It seems that the expectations are all out of whack on both sides, and either people don't know their "mint" car isn't mint and/or the buyers are expecting all cars to be "mint" and think I'm a crook when they aren't. Which one is reality, because they can't both be?

 

So I don't mean to insult anyone's cars or imply they're junk or not worthy of enjoyment. But I do expect you guys to know the difference and to be smart enough to understand that a car with needs isn't perfect or mint or anything other than a #3 quality driver. If you have a car with known needs, expect someone to call you out on it when the time comes to sell. Expect it to be a barrier to a sale. Expect someone to demand a deep discount because of it. Or you can fix it, but almost nobody does that because fixing costs money they'll never get back from their "investment" in an old car.

Right now, almost every car that comes through here has something that needs to be fixed along with a previous owner who plays dumb and a potential new owner who doesn't understand why it's not as perfect as his new Lexus.

 

If you go to an auction, expect almost all the cars to be average at best. Don't expect anyone to have repaired or serviced anything beyond giving it a jump start to get it across the block, expect it to be slightly misrepresented, and don't think you're getting a deal because you probably aren't. If you're a guy who has a car with needs and are OK with it (as I am) then you should be equally OK with buying a car with needs (LOL, right). If you are OK with a car that has needs and are willing to roll the dice on what those needs might be, then an auction can get you a car you might enjoy. Or it will get you someone else's turd that had no chance of being sold any other way, which are the cars I send to auction and I guarantee I'm not the only one.

 

Do you feel lucky?

I've bought many cars at auction, probably far too many. One thing I'm prepared for is that it will have problems the previous owner or auctioneer hasn't disclosed. I've had to arbitrate a few as they were total junk. But I've been in and out and all around  the car business since I was a kid so I should know better.

 Matt you are right. Old cars were not built to become auction house treasures. Most of them are what I call "Mop n' Glo" specials. Most real peaches are sold privately. Buyer Beware!

[Joe in Canada]

This is day 10!!!! How many Mustangs or Camaros can a person watch being auctioned off? They say the hobby is having hard times so where are all the buyers coming from or are the owners buying them back? 

Edited January 12, 2020 by Joe in Canada (see edit history)

[1937hd45]

That isn't Brewster Green is it? 

[padgett]

The trim may be. Pontiac in the 70s had a Brewster Green that was deeper than Endura or Wilderness Green.

 

ps I record the shows and then watch mostly at 3X.

[John_Mereness]

9 hours ago, 1937hd45 said:

That isn't Brewster Green is it? 

No, it's like 1971, 1972 or 1973  Ford Truck Green, the belt moldings were actually Olive Green-pearled, and the pinstripe is Apple Green .

 

As a sidenote: I needed touch up and the color was hard as hell to match as pastels are not currently popular, so hard to find the correct base colors to mix paint.

 

The original color on the car appeared to be Black.

And it appeared to when I was working on it have had a Pale Yellow undercarriage when new.

Sidenote:  The wheels I do not know the original color - as originals had been separated, stripped for repainting once and/or very poorly stored - they had no paint on them when I first saw car.

The interior was white wool with white velvet seats.

 

AND I WOULD LOVE TO FIND A FACTORY PHOTO - the COMPANY MUST HAVE HAD PRIDE IN CAR AS IT WAS 22K NEW AND ONE OF THEIR LAST 100% NEW CARS BUILT (original owner was their steel supplier)

 

Relatives bought the car in about 1973 or 1974 ish (from a State of Kentucky surplus asset sale) and drove it to Thanksgiving or Chrismas dinner that year - aka first time I saw the car.

 

Edited January 12, 2020 by John_Mereness (see edit history)

[John_Mereness]

Changing the subject:  I think Mecum does a really good job and they are not afraid to take earlier cars, but earlier cars sort of get lost in their sea and the crowd is really not pre-WWII geared. Also, you cannot dump "undetailed - green" cars out at Auction, rush them, or ... without taking a discount. 

Sure, certain colors, RHD, and ... cause discounts, as well as poor presentation and ....

I think the problem showed itself this week.

 

Basically, If people are looking for  30's Convertible car prices to plummet, they will probably be disappointed (sure. they may drop a little, but they still are going to be expensive) as the bulk will just sit in garages or trade hands privately /quietly verses becoming available - the stuff cost a premium in the 1950's and still does today. 

Edited January 12, 2020 by John_Mereness (see edit history)