58L-Y8 Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 Include Winton in that list: their automotive operations gave way to the engine division that developed distillate and diesel engine as Electro Motive Company which GM acquired for its conquest of the railroad locomotive market with the diesel-electric locomotive that replaced steam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexRiv_63 Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 Great thread. These are family photos of my wife's great uncle Herman who loved cars and loved having his picture taken. I am pretty sure all these are of the same car on different road trips. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 Has a Wills St Claire look to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John S. Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 On 1/5/2020 at 9:26 AM, Walt G said: Here you go, Happy Sunday everyone the photo of the car with the hood up is a detail of a Franklin Dealers/salesman's dinner in NY City and shows a 12 cylinder Franklin prototype - that engine was supposed to go into a production line of cars that shared the same bodies etc as the 1932 series 16a Airman, but using a extended chassis to accommodate the larger engine. That didn't happen because the bank took over the Franklin company and decided a completely new car would sell better. Not a wise choice - it didn't. ( I knew a fellow who as a young man worked at and for the bank that took over the Franklin company, interesting stories he had to relate to me ) The hood on this prototype was longer then the Airman series that had the 6 cylinder engine . First car on the left is the regular Airman, compare the details of the hood ( note the number of doors in the side) with the V12 with the raised hood. Hope some of you find this interesting. Walt Walt, great pictures and interesting pieces of history that you always provide. Thanks, John 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
md murray Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 On 1/5/2020 at 9:45 AM, edinmass said: When they were new......... This Blackhawk? is spectacular. -I wish the guy wasn't standing there, I would love to see what the whole body. Is that seating behind him? Dual cockpit or I wonder if its all open? What are the little bits going along the top of windshield frame? Fasteners/snaps for a top? What an incredibly unique car-wow 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 Jason......how about an ID on the car above........looks too big to be a Blackhawk to me. Lots of snaps on the body for a tonneau cover. Car has a great look, that’s why I copied the photo......logo on the side mount cover.....and possibly on the rear tire. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
md murray Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 I guess that's it...pretty different looking. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 I think you are correct.....looks smaller in thr color photo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
md murray Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 Looks pretty cool w the tonneau snapped in too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff_a Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 (edited) On 1/6/2020 at 6:39 AM, 8E45E said: I'm under the impression, Peerless Corporation never went bankrupt, and simply left the automotive industry. Graham-Paige, Hupmobile, and Studebaker were similar companies that became conglomerates with several non-automotive divisions and their automotive divisions either got ignored, or were losing money, and got shut down. Craig You're right. The President of Peerless considered soldiering on with the aluminum-engine/body/frame V-12 & V-16 cars in development with Alcoa + buying Murphy Body in Pasadena and reducing auto production to a lower-volume company than they already were. Instead of 3,800/year*, maybe they could have tried for 380 cars per year. The only estimate I've seen of what the 1933 Peerless V-16s were supposed to sell for was about $3,600.** If you multiply that questionable unit cost x 380, you get gross sales of $1,368,000. Maybe they would still have a line of 8s. Of course -- you'd have to take a bite out of Cadillac/Marmon/Pierce-Arrow/Franklin/Stutz/Lincoln/Packard sales to do that. Comparing beer and luxury car sales in the 30s, they may have made the right choice to switch from selling a $2,000 item to a 10-cent item. Only figure I've seen from the beer sales is $2,000,000 profit for 1946. I don't know if anyone here has been to South Africa or England, but Carling Black Label is a top seller in both countries(I read about 5 years ago it was #1 in both). * Average for all 32 model years ** I found my obscure source for this figure...from the French site Trombinoscar.com Quote Monée en chaine ce véhicule aurait été proposé à $3800. ...380 x 3800 results in a product of $1,444,000, so I was $76,000 low. Edited January 9, 2020 by jeff_a (see edit history) 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 On 1/5/2020 at 7:26 AM, Walt G said: Here you go, Happy Sunday everyone the photo of the car with the hood up is a detail of a Franklin Dealers/salesman's dinner in NY City and shows a 12 cylinder Franklin prototype - that engine was supposed to go into a production line of cars that shared the same bodies etc as the 1932 series 16a Airman, but using a extended chassis to accommodate the larger engine. That didn't happen because the bank took over the Franklin company and decided a completely new car would sell better. Not a wise choice - it didn't. ( I knew a fellow who as a young man worked at and for the bank that took over the Franklin company, interesting stories he had to relate to me ) The hood on this prototype was longer then the Airman series that had the 6 cylinder engine . First car on the left is the regular Airman, compare the details of the hood ( note the number of doors in the side) with the V12 with the raised hood. Hope some of you find this interesting. Walt This is the best post on this forum in the last 3 months. Which is pretty good considering some of my stuff. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8E45E Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 3 hours ago, md murray said: I guess that's it...pretty different looking. I'm open to correction, but it sure appears to be a Biddle & Smart body!! Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
58L-Y8 Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 16 hours ago, md murray said: This Blackhawk? is spectacular. -I wish the guy wasn't standing there, I would love to see what the whole body. Is that seating behind him? Dual cockpit or I wonder if its all open? What are the little bits going along the top of windshield frame? Fasteners/snaps for a top? What an incredibly unique car-wow Those are identified in the Stutz text by Katzell as Series AA Black Hawk four passenger speedster by Robbins. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Wetherbee Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 Well, here’s another one for your viewing pleasure... hopefully you can see the facial expressions on the dad and son... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Wetherbee Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 I also have this cabinet photo that is believed to be from an early Hillclimb up Mount Washington. Another interesting early photograph of sport motoring in the early years. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8E45E Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 21 minutes ago, Mark Wetherbee said: Well, here’s another one for your viewing pleasure... hopefully you can see the facial expressions on the dad and son... I hope he tightened the drive belt before doing any hillclimbs in that!! Craig 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Mereness Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 (edited) On 1/5/2020 at 11:58 AM, bryankazmer said: Neat stuff. Why would a V12 need a longer hood than a straight six? Both are "six cylinders long." From an engineering perspective, not marketing advantage. Because the Franklin V-12 is a massive engine - by the way, they have a great 3 speed transmission Freewheeling, and a Columbia two-speed back axle too - a FAST car Edited January 7, 2020 by John_Mereness (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walt G Posted January 7, 2020 Author Share Posted January 7, 2020 Thanks everyone for continuing to visit here and most of all share what you may have as well. It is January and most of us can't use our cars stored in the garage until it gets warmer and clearer weather wise. But here we are looking at some fairly obscure vehicles , many that were stopped being made over 70 years ago, many that were made before we were born. BUT it seems we are all having a great time on the AACA Forums! 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexRiv_63 Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 20 hours ago, keiser31 said: Has a Wills St Claire look to it. Actually I'm pretty sure it is a 1924 Oakland. Herman was always an Oakland and Pontiac man, his last car was a 1965 Bonneville. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Wetherbee Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 3 hours ago, 8E45E said: I hope he tightened the drive belt before doing any hillclimbs in that!! Craig I think it would be tightened by pressing the drive pedal as I don’t think the Browniecar was all that complicated a machine... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFitz Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 17 hours ago, alsancle said: This is the best post on this forum in the last 3 months. Which is pretty good considering some of my stuff. Agree,....... at least with the first sentence. And the value goes beyond just looking at great pictures of old cars. At least one of the pictures has also helped with a discussion in another thread ! Paul 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachJC Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 Here is a pic of our 33 Studebaker in 1957....6yrs before Dad purchased it 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachJC Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 First 2 from 1962......the last one one from 2019 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Man Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 That is a beautiful Studebaker…. found this original 1933 picture, notice the black wall tires and the black wire wheels. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachJC Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 (edited) Yes I seen that pic online just last week as I had not seen it before...I believe it is a smaller series Studebaker...but that is a great pic. In one of the duel side mounts on our car we still have one of the original, and bald blackwall tires. Edited January 7, 2020 by coachJC (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LCK81403 Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 Here is a little tougher photo to identify the make of car. At first I though it maybe was a Buick of about 1920 vintage, but now I am more inclined to think it is a Dodge. Anyone recognize the dash panel layout? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walt G Posted January 8, 2020 Author Share Posted January 8, 2020 OK here ya go , something else to look at. Yes, I know what they are but will wait to give you all something to think about ,have fun. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 (edited) Looks like about a 1927 Bugatti and a Lincoln to me. Edited January 8, 2020 by keiser31 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8E45E Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 https://content.invisioncic.com/r277599/monthly_2020_01/ArtDeco(2)Bugatti1927Lavocat002.jpg.cbc91a8906e679d5e72fb3e78ae1917a.jpg https://content.invisioncic.com/r277599/monthly_2020_01/578133144_WGGosdenin1931Lincolnsedan001.jpg.d42c8615537800e0cc5c199e0869a9ee.jpg The picture properties give us the answers!! Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walt G Posted January 8, 2020 Author Share Posted January 8, 2020 the photo of the Lincoln may have been taken in 1931 but it is not a 1931 Lincoln. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8E45E Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 3 hours ago, Walt G said: the photo of the Lincoln may have been taken in 1931 but it is not a 1931 Lincoln. No, its a '27 or '28, and not a Judkins or any of the higher-end coachbuilders, near as I can tell. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walt G Posted January 8, 2020 Author Share Posted January 8, 2020 Craig It is a 1929 model L with stock factory 7 passenger sedan coachwork. That is my grand father standing next to it, he bought it new at Schulkraut Ford/Lincoln dealer in Queens , N.Y. In the back ground at the end of the road is Belmont Park race track ,the north end of their property and all the white oak trees you see are still standing. The gate at the end of the road is still there ( dates from 1905) and is about 100 feet away from where I am typing this now , my house is directly behind where my grand father is standing and was built about 24 years after this photo was taken. I still have the bowler hat he is wearing and the spats, wish I had the car! 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 Nice dog, great car..........the actor? Before my time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 ^Clark Cable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
58L-Y8 Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 13 hours ago, Walt G said: Craig It is a 1929 model L with stock factory 7 passenger sedan coachwork. That is my grand father standing next to it, he bought it new at Schulkraut Ford/Lincoln dealer in Queens , N.Y. In the back ground at the end of the road is Belmont Park race track ,the north end of their property and all the white oak trees you see are still standing. The gate at the end of the road is still there ( dates from 1905) and is about 100 feet away from where I am typing this now , my house is directly behind where my grand father is standing and was built about 24 years after this photo was taken. I still have the bowler hat he is wearing and the spats, wish I had the car! Hi Walt Your grandfather must have been doing quite well to purchase a new Lincoln then. Please tell us more about him and his profession. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8E45E Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 11 minutes ago, 58L-Y8 said: Hi Walt Your grandfather must have been doing quite well to purchase a new Lincoln then. Please tell us more about him and his profession. Not only that, but to still have it (along with his house) in 1931 AFTER the stock market crash in October of '29!! Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walt G Posted January 9, 2020 Author Share Posted January 9, 2020 Craig My grandfather came to the USA from England in the early part of the last century, went to Canada first then down here to long island where he knew people from " the old country". He was a skilled mason ( brick and block) and started a business doing that craft as well as a concrete business where he built or poured foundations - most of the churches built in Brooklyn and Queens county in NY in the 1920-30 era were done by him. In addition to the Lincoln sedan he had a 1928 Stearns Knight coupe, model T pick up for business use ( then a Mack 1 ton by 1930 or so) his other pre war cars were a 1931 Lincoln LeBaron conv coupe ( bought used from the same Lincoln dealer where he bought the sedan when the car was about 6 months old - it was bought new by jockey Earle Sandy who found the Lincoln to big for him to comfortably reach the pedals) . He also had a 1938 Lincoln Zephyr sedan, 1939 Ford conv sedan and a 1941 Chevrolet sedan pre war and the last car he bought new was a 1948 Oldsmobile 98 sedan that had every possible accessory on it you could imagine. ( he did not order it that way, but in early post WWII era if you wanted a new car you took what a dealer had to offer) When the Great Depression hit he paid off everyone he owned $ to ( material suppliers, etc) but many people who owned him $ for the work he did , did not pay him off so he went bankrupt. I was the grandson that only lived 60 feet away from his house ( others were a 15 minute walk away ) but was the one as a little kid that sat and listened to his stories of his days in England and Canada - I was fascinated by the history. Still am fascinated by history and am heavily involved in historical groups, started the local historical society, am the appointed village historian and in addition to all the car related material too. If he had seen all the "old car stuff" I have collected my whole life he would be amazed and probably a bit bewildered. 😯 He was alive when I bought my first old car at age 14 and it got dragged home on a tow rope. I was always the "odd" member of the family which everyone chalked up to my being artistic, I always saw things differently then everyone else - still do (!) in my research on car history and the stories I pen from the information I put together . Walt 6 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
58L-Y8 Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 Hi Walt Thank you for relating your Grandfather's history, sounds as if he had an interesting life. Not only a successful man but also an honorable one who did the right thing even in the face of adversity. Shows fine character, a quality we should all strive to emulate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
28 Chrysler Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 This car could make an interesting story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 5 minutes ago, 28 Chrysler said: This car could make an interesting story. Easier to watch the submarine races with that exhaust pipe configuration.... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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