rocketraider

"Patina"

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Am I the only one who doesn't get "patina"? Especially if someone has gone to trouble and expense of making the interior and drivetrain very nice, but then clearcoats rusty metal and worn-thru paint.

 

An unrestored original car, or even something like that Olds Limited that showed up some years ago is one thing, but I don't see finishing part of the car to standard and then ignoring the rest.

 

Someone on another board I frequent once had a sig line "Patina doesn't mean holes big enough to sling a cat through". Maybe I'm not meant to understand such things.

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"patina" to me is the latest popular "in word"  , to describe a car part or car that was borrowed from the antiques trade , another one is "refurbish' or "refurbished". What happened to the word used for decades to describe cars such as - restored . Do old paintings get "refurbished" houses, ??  I guess the next use of the word refurbished will be used to describe someone who has had a face lift, or wrinkles removed,  I can hear it now - going to spend the next few hours being refurbished because my patina is showing to much. Geez.

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Posted (edited)

 If you are buying 17th century furniture, patina is an absolute must. Anything refinished is valued way less.

 Cars though, are another thing.

 It used to be that you repainted a car to increase the value, that may not be the case if the car has been well taken care of and shows wear and tear from years of use.

 

 It may be that it only has surface rust, but is in super fine condition with out any body rot. That car will bring a premium over a very fine restoration.

 A car usually has so many dents and rot that it must be repainted so that used to be the norm.

 

 It all boils down to what you are looking for in an antique desk or a car. Something that shows care and history or something new.

 

That's why they make chocolate and vanilla ice cream.

 This car was not cleared, it has an application of ATF and WD40 just the way I wanted it. I have scene sold it and it takes all the trophy's at the local car show.

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Edited by Roger Walling (see edit history)
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Not the only one!  To me patina is just another phrase for “rust I don’t want to deal with so I’ll clear coat it”. 

Have fun 

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Posted (edited)

I have a (close to) 60 year old car with original paint and interior that's noticeably less than perfect, but that's meant as a tribute to "originality" not "patina." In my opinion, that's kind of the point, just as with museum pieces, old musical instruments (where tone is critical) or 17th century furniture. Some folks latch on to the idea of patina because it's very conspicuous, but it's peripheral to my intent. On my other car, however, I had to have the rust repaired and the body repainted because the rust had gone too far.

 

Here's my all original car (covered with dust rather than rust):

 

 

IMG_0102.JPG

Edited by JamesR (see edit history)
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I have my definition and I'm happy with it, I also know what is a Classic car is and what is not. If it bothers some leave it in 2019. Happy New Year! Bob 

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Every time I look in the mirror I see more “patina”, does that mean I’m getting more valuable as an unrestored original? I’m still sporting my original paint but my upholstery on top is thinning and I can be a bit finicky to get started, at least that’s what my wife says at times.

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6 minutes ago, TerryB said:

Every time I look in the mirror I see more “patina”, does that mean I’m getting more valuable as an unrestored original? I’m still sporting my original paint but my upholstery on top is thinning and I can be a bit finicky to get started, at least that’s what my wife says at times.

 

I resemble that comment -

maybe lube for the joints would help?

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I just had a glass of Pinot Noir to help with joint lubrication!  

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Posted (edited)

I get it and I like it. At a glance, it may be viewed as a cop-out and an attempt to cut costs, but there's an undeniable appeal to a well-used but still functional piece of machinery. I don't much care for the fake patina, but if your car has earned it honestly then I'm all in favor of keeping it that way if it pleases you. I also understand the new hardware underneath--at that point the patina isn't a financial choice but an aesthetic one, and I still get it. A machine that works properly is a joy so go ahead and do what it takes to make it operate to your standards. My favorite leather chair is creased and rubbed bare in places--it took me years to get it that way and in my opinion it has only gotten better. I wouldn't trade it for a brand new one.

 

And I have to admit a low-maintenance collector car has its appeal. I've discovered that it's very liberating to have a car that doesn't worry about bugs or road debris or weather. Go to any show and you'll see virtually everyone walks right past all the shiny, perfect cars but a vehicle with some age and "patina" and signs of use will make them stop and admire and ingest the car's history almost through osmosis. 


For instance, I don't think this Model T would have been nearly as appealing with a shiny, fresh restoration. The engine and transmission were rebuilt, the brakes were new, the front wheels had been freshly re-spoked, and all the hardware had been freshened, but they left the look alone. It drove like new, but looked every bit of 100 years old. I do not think a gleaming coat of black paint (or God forbid, taking it back to "original" touring car configuration) would be any kind of improvement:

 

011.jpg  009.jpg

Edited by Matt Harwood (see edit history)
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To me, the word "patina"is right up there with phrases like "barn find" and "numbers matching". While there WAS an actual meaning some time ago, they quickly morphed into buzz words meant to trigger a reaction rather than convey a meaning. "Barn find" began as finding a decent true original car in a barn (generally a car that had been in that barn since about WWII, or before). And basically everybody in the antique automobile hobby knew what meant. Now it has come to mean any old car  that hasn't been out for a couple years. It can be found in any place from an attached garage to a back field. They come out of modern shipping containers, storage facilities, and carports. Most "barn finds" today have been restored at least once (whereas before it always meant a car that had never been restored). Many of them now restored or modified a few times, anything from the worst amateurish bad fix-up to show winners.

 

"Numbers matching" was originally used to differentiate a nice muscle car that still had its original major pieces from one that had been raced and abused for many years with replacement parts used for repairs of damage or to enhance performance beyond its original design. That was an important distinction for high end muscle car collectors. Since then, so-called professional restorations shops have gone to cutting part of the firewall and frame from a destroyed car and welding them into a pieced together recreation with parts from a dozen or more other cars. Just so they can claim it as "numbers matching". Beyond that, "numbers matching" has become used on thousands of cars for which the original meaning never did apply. Most cars before 1930 never did have a given serial number in any places that it needed to match. Many cars even up to WWII did not require "numbers matching" identification tags. Even worse today. Many people use the "numbers matching" phrase to mean that the title they have "matches" the serial number on the car. Well, please pardon my language, but, THE NUMBERS ON THE TITLE DAMN WELL BETTER MATCH THE NUMBERS ON THE CAR as the title would NOT be legal if those numbers didn't match! Sorry about that, but I hate it every time I see someone brag about having a title that "matches" the car they are selling, and therefore it is a "numbers matching" car. Since new titles are issued every time a car is sold, a current title is basically meaningless as far as provenance is concerned. Earlier and original titles are of course of value to the car's history and provenance.

 

"Patina" for collector cars started out referring to a still very original car in reasonably nice condition that wore its years of gentle use well. Today? People build "patina" cars. They pick up a rusted out hulk, buy parts that a few years ago most collectors would have sent to the dump, and put together a running pile that actually was not even a car before and brag about the "patina". I do NOT like "buzz words".

 

A car is what a car is. Whether it is an assembled pile of junk, a cheap amateur restoration of a marginally interesting car? Or one of the top ten Duesenbergs in the world. It can be a fun car to own, drive, show off at the local cruise in, or tour with the best of clubs. Or even just sit in the garage and admire it.

 

And,  by the way Roger W and James R, Nice cars!

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Patina shows how a car has survived for 40-100 years. It shows the historical passage of time, but is only important if a car has never been refurbished or restored. Once new paint is applied, a new interior is installed or different drive train is used, that historical time line is interrupted. Any future talk of patina is without substance. For the last twenty five years a cars history has been a hugely important part of the hobby-patina makes the story possible.

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Here's a shot looking out the windshield as our Pierce is going down the road.

Notice the 'patina' next to the cowl vent. 😀

IMG_0240.JPG

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someone who has had a face lift,

 

better known in the industry as the "surprise face"...............

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Posted (edited)

Hopefully, this Summer, I can fix some of the patina issues on my '60 Buick. I can't help any much with the sanding dust from repainting the driver's front fender, but I will have a set of threadbare blue carpets if anyone needs them.

 

They will be my trash, but if you'd like to treasure them.......

 

Bernie

Edited by 60FlatTop (see edit history)

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I took some flak from some old car guys last summer about my 1966 Studebaker that had original paint that was worn thru and had authentic "rust" in a lot of spots.

So instead of letting it get worse I had it repainted. I offered to sell it to all the naysayers before I had it redone for under $3000 running and driving but they all had excuses why they couldn't buy it. BTW the roof white was a bad rattle can addition long before I got it.

chrgretcmay16 003.jpg

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 Very heavy unfortunately in the modified VW crowd;

Image result for vw's with patina They think this looks good.

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I don't normally use the word "patina" unless I'm listing something on ebay. I prefer to use "original". I agree with others that my personal appearance and abilities have acquired lots of "patina" so maybe that is why I appreciate original cars now a lot more than shiny restorations. I also think the word "honest" needs to be mixed with "original" when it comes to cars. Two of my current hobby cars are honest originals in greatly varying condition and I love them both. I am actively working to make them dependably driveable but I am not planning on changing their appearance. I am thinking about getting a couple of "Please Touch This Car" signs for use at car shows....

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after 50 years in cars, patina is the end all for me. no interest in 25k paint jobs. they do nothing for me.

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I don't mind cars with actual wear and tear. Fake "patina", aka rust, is stupid though. Why? There is a Studebaker pickup that I see at a show every year with a perfectly fine body that has rust painted on it. 

 

I have seen modern imports with a full wrap rust. At least being a wrap it's removable.

 

Maybe it's because I grew up poor with cars that barely ran and were rusting apart before my eyes, but I prefer the cars that look nice. 

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It's called: by the time I do all the mechanical work, I am pretty worn down and really do not spend the time on the cosmetics that I need to, other fish to fry, and if it lasted this long then perhaps just keep my hands off of it. 

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The kind of fake patina Billy is talking about is like what I'm talking about.

Image result for VW beetle patina image

This is how you try to get attention at a car show or cruise when you don't know how to do a proper job. Jeezzz the guy can't even put a surfboard on correctly!!!

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IF I had been able to buy the 66 Studebaker 10 years ago then I could have probably saved the original paint. But I couldn't stand watching the bare metal getting worse and the dings starting to bleed thru. 

chrgretcmay16 004.jpg

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