1930 Lincoln Phaeton

[1950panhead]

https://www.mecum.com/lots/FL0120-405808/1930-lincoln-model-l/

Highlights

• CCCA Full Classic
• 385 CI V-8 engine
• Sliding gear 3-speed manual transmission
• Mechanical drum brakes
• Front and rear semi-elliptic leaf springs
• Trippe safety lights
• Dual side mounts with accessory mirrors
• Folding divider windows
• Cowl lamps
• Rear-mounted luggage trunk
• Manual folding top
• Leather upholstery
• Greyhound mascot
• Painted wire wheels
• Whitewall tires

The high-quality Lincoln Model L was introduced in early 1922 while Lincoln Motor Car Company was still under the leadership of Henry Leland, but, by 1930, the greatly improved body designs advanced by Edsel Ford turned a finely engineered but stodgy automobile into a style leader. This Full CCCA Classic 1930 Lincoln Model L 7-Passenger Touring is a prime example of the younger Ford’s touch in the design of its body. This Lincoln is finished in green with dark green moldings and fenders accented with a tan canvas-style folding top. Twin chrome-plated cowl lights accent the body. A rear luggage rack with a black leather-covered trunk provides space for personal equipment and supplies for touring. This Lincoln features dual fender-mounted, green-painted, steel-spoke spare wheels and whitewall tires with accessory mirrors. The large chrome-plated headlamps are assisted by dual Trippe driving lights mounted between the front fenders. A Lincoln greyhound mascot tops the bright Lincoln radiator shell. The front bumper is the familiar split-bar type iconic to Lincolns of this era. The interior is trimmed in deep tan leather with wide pleats front and rear. A natural wood steering wheel adds a bit of class to the instrument panel. The rear compartment includes twin folding jump seats for the occasional use of two additional passengers. A chrome-plated windshield mounted on the divider has folding side wind wings to make rear passengers more comfortable. The 136-inch wheelbase chassis is supported by 20-inch green-painted, steel-spoke wheels mounted with whitewall tires. The 385 CI 60-degree L-head V-8 engine produces 90 HP and transmits power to the rear axle by a 3-speed manual transmission and torque-tube driveshaft. Brakes are drum-type mechanical on all four corners. This elegant touring car would be a welcomed attraction at any classic car club or Lincoln Club meet.

[1950panhead]

[1950panhead]

[1950panhead]

[edinmass]

It’s not a phaeton..........it’s a seven passenger touring........about half the price of a phaeton.

[Marty Roth]

1950 PANHEAD,

to correct the misleading, incorrect information in your ad, as noted by edinmass, and confirmed by Walt G (and me);

 

You can make the correction in your heading by:

1.    holding your mouse/pointer over the heading line

2.    Delete the word PHAETON

3.    Replace with the word TOURING

Edited December 28, 2019 by Marty Roth (see edit history)

[A. Ballard 35R]

Never knew that an extendable rear windshield is now referred to as '"Folding divider windows".

[steveinky]

11 hours ago, edinmass said:

It’s not a phaeton..........it’s a seven passenger touring........about half the price of a phaeton.

Could you please tell me the difference between the phaeton and the touring?

Thanks

Steve

[Walt G]

The phaeton and touring cars usually had four doors, no roll up windows, side curtains and rods to be fitted for weather protection. The word touring car was used up into the late 1920s for the most part to describe that body style be it a 5 passenger or 7 passenger. The word phaeton came into use in the mid 1920s and 99% of the time now was used to describe a 5 passenger car ( some were dual cowl phaetons because of the panel that fit over the back door tops to hold an extra windshield for protection from the wind) that did not have the extra "jump" seats mounted behind the front seat back in the rear compartment . The touring car was still used as a name of a body style but most of the manufacturers as well as body builders used it for the 7 passenger cars only.

[mercer09]

It’s not a phaeton..........it’s a seven passenger touring........about half the price of a phaeton.

 

Ed, would you be so kind as to explain the pricing? curious why the 5 seater is worth double the 7 seater..........

[alsancle]

5 minutes ago, mercer09 said:

It’s not a phaeton..........it’s a seven passenger touring........about half the price of a phaeton.

 

Ed, would you be so kind as to explain the pricing? curious why the 5 seater is worth double the 7 seater..........

 

Allow me to answer for Ed.   The 5 seater is sporting and always better looking while the touring 7 seaters are basically parade cars.   You see the same thing with a club sedan vs a 7 passenger sedan.   Math is almost the same.

 

Ed is using round numbers on the 50% discount,   but there is a significant difference is value when you go to sell probably between 30-40 percent less.

 

Also,  the folding rear windshields are an abomination to styling and should always be removed from the car for resale.

 

Now,  A real dual cowl is a 50% premium on the phaeton,  but that is a different story.

[John_Mereness]

14 hours ago, A. Ballard 35R said:

Never knew that an extendable rear windshield is now referred to as '"Folding divider windows".

Because it is a J & N Tonneau Windshield -

 

And in this case someone has added windwings to the rear windshield (now some parts  missing)

[John_Mereness]

1 hour ago, alsancle said:

 

Now,  A real dual cowl is a 50% premium on the phaeton,  but that is a different story.

Correct !

[edinmass]

1 hour ago, alsancle said:

 

Allow me to answer for Ed.   The 5 seater is sporting and always better looking while the touring 7 seaters are basically parade cars.   You see the same thing with a club sedan vs a 7 passenger sedan.   Math is almost the same.

 

Ed is using round numbers on the 50% discount,   but there is a significant difference is value when you go to sell probably between 30-40 percent less.

 

Also,  the folding rear windshields are an abomination to styling and should always be removed from the car for resale.

 

Now,  A real dual cowl is a 50% premium on the phaeton,  but that is a different story.

 

 

AJ, I think today it’s 50 percent........ten years ago, I would have agreed with you numbers.

 

Another example of a 1930 Cadillac V-16 open cars at recent auction......

 

Convertible Coupe..........100 points 350,000

Roadster ..........................100 points 1,250,000

 

Same chassis, same year, same seating configuration, the 900k is style........and rarity.

Edited December 29, 2019 by edinmass (see edit history)

[mercer09]

 

Also,  the folding rear windshields are an abomination to styling and should always be removed from the car for resale.

 

Now,  A real dual cowl is a 50% premium on the phaeton,  but that is a different story.

 

 

 

very interesting.........while I understand there is a difference, never realized it was that great on all of the configurations.

[John_Mereness]

By the way, style comes at a cost - have you ever been womped in the back of the head by a dual cowl windshield ? 

Edited December 29, 2019 by John_Mereness (see edit history)

[alsancle]

13 minutes ago, John_Mereness said:

By the way, style comes at a cost - have you ever been womped in the back of the head by a dual cowl windshield ? 

the market rewards appearance not functionality.

[John_Mereness]

21 minutes ago, mercer09 said:

 

Also,  the folding rear windshields are an abomination to styling and should always be removed from the car for resale.

Actually, they are very nice and usually fold down to the floor/out of the way too - I would not have a touring car without one and I equally would not have a touring without windwings, as both make for a much for pleasurable driving experience for you and your passengers 

Edited December 29, 2019 by John_Mereness (see edit history)

[Walt G]

I have a tonneau windshield in the rear of my 1930 Packard 7 passenger touring, the wind wings on those can be folded flat against the center main piece of glass and held in place with the wing nuts at the top. the whole unit can be folded flat against the front seat back out of view. Depending upon ones point of view these can be either terrible to look at , very ungainly or not to bad if adjusted to the right angle etc. NOT to have one at all when going down the road is going to put a huge blast of air in the face of the people sitting in the rear seat or on the jump seats. Not a very pleasant experience even if you reside in a very warm climate and are going along at 5 mph. I did a piece on these for Hemmings Classic Car recently so far as history and origin , the idea came from England right after WWI. They were imported as an accessory first then eventually manufactured here in the USA.  If you like "drafty" remove it, if you want to breathe leave it where it is.

[alsancle]

29 minutes ago, Walt G said:

I have a tonneau windshield in the rear of my 1930 Packard 7 passenger touring, the wind wings on those can be folded flat against the center main piece of glass and held in place with the wing nuts at the top. the whole unit can be folded flat against the front seat back out of view.

 

Walt,  I should have pointed out the ones that are stored away hidden unless needed are fine,   its the ones where the guys leave them 100% of the time.  I understand the necessity,  but I'm so hung up on looks!

[FLYER15015]

Just to jump in, I looked at the Lincoln at 50-75K and the Packard listed 2 cars back @100-150K, as a "real" dual cowl.

Just my opinion but the Packard has much more "presence".

Question is since we're up in the clouds price wise, would I buy the Lincoln and remember what the Packard looked like and feel sad that I did not go for it.

 

Mike in Colorado

[Walt G]

The second windshield can look awkward - no doubt. A lot depends upon the styling of the car - the length of the rear tub , width of the B pillar ( ie the door post mounted at the middle where the front  seat back is in the same place ) and most of all the height of the top ( from top of the door /belt line to the horizontal edge of the top that parallels it) . On a 7 passenger touring the center of the top is higher then a phaeton because there has to be enough room for the people sitting in the jump seats to have head clearance, Some cars have a lot higher top on them then others of the same body style , passenger capacity. Werner Gubitz was Packard's chief stylist and he somehow was able to keep the top profile lower and not look like a Conestoga wagon.  This lessens the impact of your eye when you view the car to make it seem "to high" , then add another vertical point of focus to bring your eye to ( like a plated windshield frame from a tonneau windshield ) . I hope I explained that in words so all can understand and visualize. This Lincoln has a fairly high roof line - the space between the belt line of the body and the lower edge of the top so it makes the whole car with the top up look "higher". Even if the tonneau windshield is in place in the vertical position if you fold in the wind wings against the main section it will look entirely different as you don't see the 'flaps' as much.

I did a tv show that can be seen on line ( google 4 Village Studio, and when reached  look at Watch Now under the topics of The Antique Road Test - find the program 1930 Packard) with my car. when you see the car going down the road or parked you really don't see that second windshield sitting there making the car look congested styling wise. I am not mentioning this to try to seem "important" or "hey look at my car" . Just so it may be easier to comprehend what I just mentioned. This 'in person' multi angle view may help sort out what I am trying to convey easier. Yes, I am in the show, but am not a vain person and really don't like personal PR , in fact avoid it at all costs.

End of history lesson ( can you tell I was an art teacher for 35-40 years?)

[alsancle]

1 hour ago, FLYER15015 said:

Just to jump in, I looked at the Lincoln at 50-75K and the Packard listed 2 cars back @100-150K, as a "real" dual cowl.

Just my opinion but the Packard has much more "presence".

Question is since we're up in the clouds price wise, would I buy the Lincoln and remember what the Packard looked like and feel sad that I did not go for it.

 

Mike in Colorado

 

Apples to apples the Packard with equivalent chassis and body will be 50% more money.   For a variety of reason,  but the Packard was a more expensive car generally to begin with and has a cult like following.

[FLYER15015]

According to Mecum's listings the expectation for the Packard is 2X the Lincoln.

Just at a "glance" they are both two tone green and typical '30's style.

Flat head V-8 vs straight 8, and jump seats vs dual cowl.

Must I really choose one dad, can't I have both ? Then which shall I drive ?

Decisions, decisions.........................

I suppose it is just the grille that makes the Packard stand out for me.

 

Mike in Colorado

 

PS; If you are into two tone green phaeton's, there is a really nice '31 Chrysler imperial @ 120K on "Classic Cars" web site

       Presence and engineering at 3/4 the price...........what a deal............... 

Edited December 29, 2019 by FLYER15015 (see edit history)

[Matt Harwood]

The interesting thing is that the Lincoln is probably a better car than the Packard just judging by the photos and the pre-auction estimates, which tell you a lot without saying anything. The Lincoln is at least what it purports to be (nobody fakes a 7P touring). The Packard, at that price, raises my eyebrows a bit--unlikely it was born as a dual cowl phaeton. I'm also looking at the slight mis-match in the fenders vs. the bodywork and suspect that the two parts were painted at different times--are they supposed to match or not? I'm thinking yes but they didn't get it quite right. I suspect a careful examination of the Packard will uncover all kinds of mischief that will be frustrating for a new owner. Hopefully they go in with their eyes open.

[parrts]

My former '31 Lincoln 7 passenger Sport Touring ex-Homer Fitterling Collection. Shown as an example of a 7 passenger without a rear windshield.

Henry F.

 

[A. Ballard 35R]

9 hours ago, John_Mereness said:

By the way, style comes at a cost - have you ever been womped in the back of the head by a dual cowl windshield ? 

 

Have never been hit on the head but the real pain is closing a rear door with you hand on the top of the door and the cowl is down and fastened - ouch!

[John_Mereness]

On 12/29/2019 at 6:31 PM, Matt Harwood said:

The interesting thing is that the Lincoln is probably a better car than the Packard just judging by the photos and the pre-auction estimates, which tell you a lot without saying anything. The Lincoln is at least what it purports to be (nobody fakes a 7P touring). The Packard, at that price, raises my eyebrows a bit--unlikely it was born as a dual cowl phaeton. I'm also looking at the slight mis-match in the fenders vs. the bodywork and suspect that the two parts were painted at different times--are they supposed to match or not? I'm thinking yes but they didn't get it quite right. I suspect a careful examination of the Packard will uncover all kinds of mischief that will be frustrating for a new owner. Hopefully they go in with their eyes open.

True, a lot of Dual Cowl were not such from the factory and parts have been available for conversion (especially for Packard's) since the 1960's, though most of those making reproduction parts to do such conversions are longer with us and the bulk of the cars have already been restored. 

 

As far as Dual Cowl's go, most are still pretty generic (aka production bodies or catalog bodies) and under 200K to 250K ish, so i would not be too concerned - it is the million plus stuff that you want to win Pebble Beach Concours d'Elegance with that will be the problem. 

Edited December 31, 2019 by John_Mereness (see edit history)

[John_Mereness]

Been whomped by this one.   It is a 1927 Lancia 7th Series and there is a spot for it in my garage.   The car had a Sacramento and Los Angeles history from new (when Rudolph Valentino popularized Italian cars to a certain set)  and the dual cowl and Americanized top, as well as a few other trim items added sometime pre-WWII (no coachwork tags, but it was assumed one of the LA based custom shops had their hands on it for upgrading).   It's original colors were white with red leather and red wheels.   The car was owned by a relative and sat for years in their barn (yes a real barn) waiting to be restored - pretty exceptional car when unrestored too.

 

 

[John_Mereness]

Cannot find photo at the moment - but been whomped a few times via a 1929 Franklin Sport Touring too - Yellow and Black and once owned by Robert "Bob" Agle