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1931 Cadillac V12 coupe value?

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9 hours ago, edinmass said:


A fantastic V-16 at Arizona, all original, needs nothing. Jump in and tour. Drive it home.......65k.

Free car !

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Heard a lot about the Supercharged Cord Phaeton selling for $267,000 - but it was also an example where the owner probably lost money on it as restoration alone exceeded this amount.

 

And, heard a lot about the Sportman selling for like 550K - but it was all the right car in every regard matched to having a fortune spent on it mechanically (and capable of crossing the country). 

 

My point:  All things are not created equal. 

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1 hour ago, John_Mereness said:

Heard a lot about the Supercharged Cord Phaeton selling for $267,000 - but it was also an example where the owner probably lost money on it as restoration alone exceeded this amount.

 

And, heard a lot about the Sportman selling for like 550K - but it was all the right car in every regard matched to having a fortune spent on it mechanically (and capable of crossing the country). 

 

My point:  All things are not created equal. 


the phaeton was nice but the cabriolet was really really really nice.  As good as I ever seen.

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9 minutes ago, md murray said:

A fantastic V-16 at Arizona, all original, needs nothing. Jump in and tour. Drive it home.......65k.

 

--Is this the vehicle Ed is referring to? maybe not? if so then Jeeez! that's an incredible car

https://rmsothebys.com/en/auctions/az20/arizona/lots/r0010-1931-cadillac-v-16-seven-passenger-imperial-sedan-by-fleetwood/830529


yes.  Those tires are brand new btw.

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1 hour ago, md murray said:

A fantastic V-16 at Arizona, all original, needs nothing. Jump in and tour. Drive it home.......65k.

 

--Is this the vehicle Ed is referring to? maybe not? if so then Jeeez! that's an incredible car

https://rmsothebys.com/en/auctions/az20/arizona/lots/r0010-1931-cadillac-v-16-seven-passenger-imperial-sedan-by-fleetwood/830529

Yes, that is the car - dirty tires yet new, someone into it enough mechanically, and ...-  it should be a fine car - and yes a Free car too. 

Edited by John_Mereness (see edit history)
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1 hour ago, alsancle said:


the phaeton was nice but the cabriolet was really really really nice.  As good as I ever seen.

Don Wholand went through the car mechanically and drove it across US (and it should still be capable of doing again) - he also did our 851 Auburn - FANTASTIC work.  Also, all the right car, was always all the right car, Pebble Beach Concours shown, expense no object tinkering on it since restored, and ....

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Wonderful car - may I ask those who have had the experience to sit in one , given the fact it has a divider window can anyone who is long in leg, 6 feet tall or taller be comfortable enough to drive it for any length of time? I love big sedans, town cars etc but having owned both a RR Springfield Phantom I Hibbard & Darrin designed "Trouville" town car as well as a 1937 Packard Super 8 limousine - both absolutely wonderful cars, well sorted in every respect, I sold both because during my entire ownership I was in denial that I fit well enough behind the steering wheel and was comfortable enough for more then 20 minutes at a time.

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15 minutes ago, Walt G said:

Wonderful car - may I ask those who have had the experience to sit in one , given the fact it has a divider window can anyone who is long in leg, 6 feet tall or taller be comfortable enough to drive it for any length of time? I love big sedans, town cars etc but having owned both a RR Springfield Phantom I Hibbard & Darrin designed "Trouville" town car as well as a 1937 Packard Super 8 limousine - both absolutely wonderful cars, well sorted in every respect, I sold both because during my entire ownership I was in denial that I fit well enough behind the steering wheel and was comfortable enough for more then 20 minutes at a time.

A good question as late 20's and early 30's  limousines with straight dividers and non-adjustable front seats can be difficult for taller people (or for that matter shorter people too). 

 

I will tell you that the 1934 Cadillac V16 Convertible sedan had plenty of room (and suicide doors were great), the 1935 Packard twelve Convertible Sedan has plenty of room too (and suicide door also great), the RR PI Springfield Dover Sedan had suicide front doors and you still were a monkey getting in - but once in was pretty dreamy, the 1930 Franklin Dietrich Speedster Convertible (also with Suicide doors) had little room to get feet in and had ok space but problem was you sat lower than your feet on clutch and brake - hard on the legs,  the Auburn's (also with suicide doors) have needed seat upholstery padding adjustment for over 6 " tall people, but otherwise fine, and ... - lots of cars over time to go on and on about.

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4 hours ago, Walt G said:

Wonderful car - may I ask those who have had the experience to sit in one , given the fact it has a divider window can anyone who is long in leg, 6 feet tall or taller be comfortable enough to drive it for any length of time? I love big sedans, town cars etc but having owned both a RR Springfield Phantom I Hibbard & Darrin designed "Trouville" town car as well as a 1937 Packard Super 8 limousine - both absolutely wonderful cars, well sorted in every respect, I sold both because during my entire ownership I was in denial that I fit well enough behind the steering wheel and was comfortable enough for more then 20 minutes at a time.


Walt,  the V16 or the RR town car?  The town car felt like a steal at 80k but nobody over 5-10 was getting in that drivers seat.

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I would cut my legs off at the knees to drive that car........NOTHING better than a Springfield P1........nothing!

 

 

80K for that car was free.........good thing I didn’t attend.........fantastic coachwork....

Edited by edinmass (see edit history)
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7 minutes ago, edinmass said:

I would cut my legs off at the knees to drive that car........NOTHING better than a Springfield P1........nothing!

 

 

80K for that car was free.........good thing I didn’t attend.........fantastic coachwork....


that would have been awesome watching you contort  yourself trying to find your wallet.

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I love the look of both the 1934 V16 conv sedan as well as the R-R Riviera town car you show Al, but I could not drive the R-R  much, it would sit in the garage to look at .

The 1927 PI Trouville I had was restored mechanically by Lew Smith and Joe Star here on long island. Iron head too. Great car but some sections of the body structural wood could have eventually needed to be replaced. Nothing shaky just knew there were areas of need. It was S74PM ( for non RR people that is what RR people know the cars by, the build number assigned by RR of America) My car ran perfectly.

Last I heard it was in England.

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24 minutes ago, alsancle said:


that would have been awesome watching you contort  yourself trying to find your wallet.


I would have been happy to wright that check........a Springfield Town Car is what brought me up in the hobby......Ed Lake’s  Trouville was my first exposure to a Springfield car.......I was hooked from then on. 

Edited by edinmass (see edit history)

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20 minutes ago, edinmass said:


I would have been happy to wright that check........a Springfield Town Car is what brought me up in the hobby......Ed Lake’s  Trouville was my first exposure to a Springfield car.......I was hooked from then on. 


you promised you would compare and contrast the P1 and PII for us over in the American rolls Royce thread.

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Ok.......I’ll try and get to it tomorrow or Monday......crazy busy here, and got some medical stuff and two major shows this week.

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15 hours ago, alsancle said:


Walt,  the V16 or the RR town car?  The town car felt like a steal at 80k but nobody over 5-10 was getting in that drivers seat.

061B3C36-65A7-4D86-90A5-1EC0C0F0FD91.jpeg

 

 

 

Interesting, as my RR PI had a flat glass divider window (and also also opera seats built into divider panel in the back) and I would say the driver needed to be somewhere between 6' and 6'3".  My car was probably 4" to maybe 6" wider in body (body sat over the splash aprons), but that would be no real advantage to the driver other than better shoulder room.

 

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21 minutes ago, John_Mereness said:

 

 

Interesting, as my RR PI had a flat glass divider window (and also also opera seats built into divider panel in the back) and I would say the driver needed to be somewhere between 6' and 6'3".  My car was probably 4" to maybe 6" wider in body (body sat over the splash aprons), but that would be no real advantage to the driver other than better shoulder room

 


I didn’t sit in it and wish I took a picture but the drivers compartment looked SMALL!

 

Older restoration that had aged nicely.  Didn’t like gold, but car was ordered with no plating so may be as original.   Felt like a steal, but what do I know?

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14 minutes ago, alsancle said:


I didn’t sit in it and wish I took a picture but the drivers compartment looked SMALL!

 

Older restoration that had aged nicely.  Didn’t like gold, but car was ordered with no plating so may be as original.   Felt like a steal, but what do I know?

I would say a great buy, but if taller people could not fit in it well, then.... - I would "any day" rather deal with something made for someone tall than something made for someone short.   

 

Usually, they are not too impressive in the "detaining" department under the hood and that holds them back in price - cannot tell you the hours I had in cleaning up aluminum and detailing.   And, very rarely do you ever see one that is "restored" - most are just partial restorations - that hold them back too.

 

Personally, I would never sell a launderette without putting the rear top down. 

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Love this thread and the pics you have shared. I’ve been told there was a 30’s Cadillac 16 somewhere in Aiken SC but has not been seen in a few years. Does anyone know of that car? 
Dave S 

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56 minutes ago, John_Mereness said:

I would say a great buy, but if taller people could not fit in it well, then.... - I would "any day" rather deal with something made for someone tall than something made for someone short.   

 

Usually, they are not too impressive in the "detaining" department under the hood and that holds them back in price - cannot tell you the hours I had in cleaning up aluminum and detailing.   And, very rarely do you ever see one that is "restored" - most are just partial restorations - that hold them back too.

 

Personally, I would never sell a launderette without putting the rear top down. 

 

The auction companies are usually pretty smart about this, at least the boutique companies.    Somebody asked me once why you never see a German bodied Cabriolet with the top down.   The reason is it looks 10x better with the top up.

 

I'm assuming maybe it didn't look so great with the Landaulette down?

 

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Just now, alsancle said:

 

The auction companies are usually pretty smart about this, at least the boutique companies.    Somebody asked me once why you never see a German bodied Cabriolet with the top down.   The reason is it looks 10x better with the top up.

 

I'm assuming maybe it didn't look so great with the Landaulette down?

 

 

I can't think of a body style I hate more than a landaulette. It's like the mullet of collector cars: formality in front, party in the back, and stupid all over.

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Ed and I were commiserating prior about how this Stude was gonna be the deal of the century.  Really nice restoration on a desirable 32 president with 5 window coupe body.  Hammered at 140k so almost 155k all in.  Nice restorations on cool cars still bring money.

63CC3F71-9A05-499F-B64B-5B043A555D2B.jpeg

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4 minutes ago, alsancle said:

 

The auction companies are usually pretty smart about this, at least the boutique companies.    Somebody asked me once why you never see a German bodied Cabriolet with the top down.   The reason is it looks 10x better with the top up.

 

I'm assuming maybe it didn't look so great with the Landaulette down?

 

Well, I agree with the top down on a German car - it is "usually" whole lot of stuff piled on the back of the car (and for people reading, that are not familiar, it is because they are well built, often padded, and headlinered too).

 

Perhaps, it did look odd with rear top down or perhaps top was too aged to put down without damage. 

Edited by John_Mereness (see edit history)

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It had provisions for a hard chauffeurs top but it was no where to be found.   Might have looked better with that bolted on.

 

And John is correct,  most German cabriolets of the better cars have double tops which don’t exactly fold flat.

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