Jump to content

Classic Era Chrysler


Recommended Posts

This is about the large "classic " ( as per CCCA rules , regulations etc) . For their lower priced, shorter wheelbase cars of the same era I can comment. My guru for all Chrysler products of the 1931-33 era was the late Stan Marcum of Manlius ( used to live in  Syracuse) NY. I bought a 1933 Chrysler Royal 8 model CT conv coupe from him. He was a top notch restorer and drove that CT to Hershey and back after it was finished and took an AACA 1st place award with it. His cars never saw trailers. I loved the car , fit well ( I am long in legs, Stan was shorter) and the car had an adjustable front seat. Engine size , wheelbase aside the car had presence and would easily cruise along effortlessly at 55 mph. I also had the pleasure of driving Stan's 1932 CP 8 conv sedan , another well driving car, and his 1933 Imperial CQ conv coupe. All cars drove absolutely magnificently. Stan was an outstanding mechanic and restorer. I can say nothing to put down any of his cars in any aspect. I eventually parted with the 1933 CT conv coupe because my son got to big to want to climb in and out of the rumble seat every time we would take the car out.

My own preference for body styles - well the ones I find least desirable body wise - just from the stand point of not easily accommodating friends who want to go along is a conv coupe ( 1934 and earlier), coupe  and a roadster. Great looking cars but I like to have people along with me. SO a car with two doors like a conv victoria , or victoria coupe  is ok But unlike Ed I do like conv sedans very much ( own a 1940 Buick Roadmaster conv sedan) as well as touring cars, town cars, sedans etc.

I like to drive old cars, perfect trophy winning cars that don't get driven I am luke warm to.  I have been in the old car interest ( I don't use the word hobby because to me I immediately want to say horse after that) since 1963, started driving old cars in 1967 when I got my license, have driven pre WWII era cars about 100,000 miles.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

This photo caught my eye yesterday.   Sidenote - not sure what I am looking at in the middle of the top, though the  little things you see toward the edges of the roof a few inches from the wiper blades appear to be drains for a Sunroof (albeit car is a convertible) ?  

79803308_10158140691647189_175087133550182400_n.thumb.jpg.fdf264250c2a7803b0d2586065f6b6b7.jpg

Edited by John_Mereness (see edit history)
  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

Here was the rest of the post from Facebook:

The attached photo from my collection shows a Chrysler Imperial from 1931/32, in my opinion. 
The lateral ventilation "doors" in the engine hood would normally indicate that this must be a 1932 model, however they are slanted and not vertical, so there is a possibility that this a special-bodied car whose chassis could also be a 1931 one. 
The one-piece windscreen is another indication that this Chrysler was bodied by a local coachbuilder, maybe in Switzerland where this photo was taken (registration: Zurich). 
Also notable is the strong tyre profile - I haven't come across something similar on a car of that period so far. 
Any ideas on the year of manufacture and the coachbuilder, perhaps?
Edited by John_Mereness (see edit history)
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

This would be the all time great CL if its provenance is sorted out and is restored to Pebble standards.   The period pictures are fantastic while the current ones not so much.  The car has lost its CL fenders,  the rear is different and a bunch of other things I can't quite finger that make it not looks so hot anymore.

 

https://hymanltd.com/1933-chrysler-cl-imperial-victoria-by-de-villars/

 

image.thumb.png.809f7a2199acdbf127692b9ba8c37ba4.png

IMG_3729.JPG

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, edinmass said:

I’m sure it the same............

 

I'm not sure but I think it probably is.   I think the trip to Poland did it no favors and quite a bit has been replaced or rebuilt.   Can't wait to see it back in its original CL configuration.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, alsancle said:

 

I'm not sure but I think it probably is.   I think the trip to Poland did it no favors and quite a bit has been replaced or rebuilt.   Can't wait to see it back in its original CL configuration.

 

 

Trust me, it’s the same car. I have looked into it.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

Of all the body styles at that time, the European coachbuilders truly grabbed the convertible Victoria and ran with it to the farthest degree for absolute stylish elegance and verve.  

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, edinmass said:

 

 

Trust me, it’s the same car. I have looked into it.

 

It is a GREAT car and I'm looking forward to what an unlimited amount of money can do  to it.   But I do wonder how much of the "ship of theseus paradox" is at work.    It is very hard for me to reconcile the period photos with what I see now.  Something is off.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/22/2019 at 9:44 PM, alsancle said:

 

It is a GREAT car and I'm looking forward to what an unlimited amount of money can do  to it.   But I do wonder how much of the "ship of theseus paradox" is at work.    It is very hard for me to reconcile the period photos with what I see now.  Something is off.

Rough life I am strongly guessing.  That said, dust off the the English wheel and ....

Link to post
Share on other sites

Much talk about this windshield style seen on a few Imperials and which looks a lot better than the "upright" standard LeBaron version. Isn't it sort of an adapted Auburn windshield - or is it more slanted than the Auburn? I have checked and the Auburn car is 5" narrower (45" vs 50" across cowl) than an Imperial so it is no direct fit.

 

image.png.a86a15e19b005e665f1a1c184a234e0e.png

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...
11 hours ago, 58L-Y8 said:

For comparison, each in turn, I doubt if they were the same car, Drauz must have bodied more than one Custom Imperial.  

 

 

You are absolutely correct. Dammann and myself mixed it up and here is the same picture (low resolution) from a period Chrysler leaflet. It was a Kellner Cvt Cp made for King Carol II of Romania:

 

 

 

 

997259308_CGCvtCp3Kellnerzoom-seldtilRomaniamfl.jpg.745d7a19bf47aaf41bcac5a83a42077e.jpg

Edited by Narve N
Duplicate picture (see edit history)
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the correct coachbuilder credit, Kellner did fine design work as well.  Europeans got stylish convertible victorias seemingly far more than we did here.  Were it not for Waterhouse, Rollston, Derham, Dietrich, Brunn, Fleetwood and LeBaron, none might have been built.

Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, 58L-Y8 said:

Thanks for the correct coachbuilder credit, Kellner did fine design work as well.  Europeans got stylish convertible victorias seemingly far more than we did here.  Were it not for Waterhouse, Rollston, Derham, Dietrich, Brunn, Fleetwood and LeBaron, none might have been built.

 

 

Great stuff NEVER goes out of style.......

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

From the flow of Facebook groups: A CCCA Chrysler as Police interceptor vehicle. Chicago Police chose an 32 Imperial  with what looks like bulletproof glass.

 

2079742108_32ChryCLChicagoPolice1933interceptor.thumb.jpg.dabd7f177cc7a34fb4facd569582dc5d.jpg

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 months later...
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, md murray said:

Anybody familiar with this car or who the body maker was? It looks like a shorter wheelbase or is that just the skirts playing a visual effect?

 

It is on the shorter CH chassis.   Special built for Walter P. Chrysler.

 

aTN7Yo3i1WXGqm8pu5jKuP85BeJeNo7hQhRU51Ev

Edited by alsancle (see edit history)
  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
56 minutes ago, alsancle said:

 

It is on the shorter CH chassis.   Special built for Walter P. Chrysler.

 

aTN7Yo3i1WXGqm8pu5jKuP85BeJeNo7hQhRU51Ev


The first real car show I attended a great distance from my home, this car was on the field. It made quite an impression on me. 

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 1 month later...
On 1/8/2020 at 2:37 PM, Narve N said:

From the flow of Facebook groups: A CCCA Chrysler as Police interceptor vehicle. Chicago Police chose an 32 Imperial  with what looks like bulletproof glass.

 

2079742108_32ChryCLChicagoPolice1933interceptor.thumb.jpg.dabd7f177cc7a34fb4facd569582dc5d.jpg

 

 

Clearly a 1931 Imperial CG as evidenced by the flat windshield, sidemount tire hold downs, flat headlamp lens, spacers between upper and lower bumper bars. The horns and customized hood are add ons.

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 months later...

Hello Everyone,  Just a note that my 1931 Chrysler CD-8 Roaster is up for sale. Contact me for additional information,  thanks,  Don in Ohio  740-816-4284

IMG_0809.JPG

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I spotted this at RM's Hershey Auction - Great car and just the way I like a car (fun "as is" and plenty of projects for me to do in my evenings and weekends). Kills me though that someone could not spend a few minutes to put the metal sidemount covers on for the auction photos.

 

https://rmsothebys.com/en/auctions/hf20/hershey/lots/r0012-1932-chrysler-cl-imperial-dual-windshield-phaeton-by-lebaron/922959

 

ab635c2f5e5e198af7fa7fd8622c3168bd0dd094.thumb.jpg.3feac43ae58bef404e5fde23a1daa286.jpg

 

 

 

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, John_Mereness said:

I spotted this at RM's Hershey Auction - Great car and just the way I like a car (fun "as is" and plenty of projects for me to do in my evenings and weekends). Kills me though that someone could not spend a few minutes to put the metal sidemount covers on for the auction photos.

 

https://rmsothebys.com/en/auctions/hf20/hershey/lots/r0012-1932-chrysler-cl-imperial-dual-windshield-phaeton-by-lebaron/922959

 

ab635c2f5e5e198af7fa7fd8622c3168bd0dd094.thumb.jpg.3feac43ae58bef404e5fde23a1daa286.jpg

 

 

 

 

Love it.  Has a very "honest" feel.  I'll bet it does really well.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, alsancle said:

 

Love it.  Has a very "honest" feel.  I'll bet it does really well.

I assume it ticks all the boxes for what someone would want in an Imperial and from appearances I doubt there are many that were ever this nice a car to start a restoration on if one would choose to do so (personally, I would just be tinkering with it and having a great time doing so matched to lots of nights out on the town for dinner and ...).  It should soar up over 100K within a few seconds of bidding starting. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, John_Mereness said:

I assume it ticks all the boxes for what someone would want in an Imperial and from appearances I doubt there are many that were ever this nice a car to start a restoration on if one would choose to do so (personally, I would just be tinkering with it and having a great time doing so matched to lots of nights out on the town for dinner and ...).  It should soar up over 100K within a few seconds of bidding starting. 

 

I'm thinking 150-17k.

 

This one struggled for a couple of years to sell but is the convertible sedan (which I really like).   Bonhams eventually sold it for 180k in a much stronger market.

 

https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/24143/lot/121/

 

 

<b>1932 Chrysler CL Imperial Custom Convertible Sedan</b><br />Chassis no. 7803380<br />Engine no. CL-1080

 

Edited by alsancle (see edit history)
  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Considering what a split windshield Packard would cost you, the Chrysler is a very good car for the money. Ralph Roberts always did nice work.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, alsancle said:

 

I'm thinking 150-17k.

 

This one struggled for a couple of years to sell but is the convertible sedan (which I really like).   Bonhams eventually sold it for 180k in a much stronger market.

 

https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/24143/lot/121/

 

 

<b>1932 Chrysler CL Imperial Custom Convertible Sedan</b><br />Chassis no. 7803380<br />Engine no. CL-1080

 

It was a nice car too, but as I have preached repeatedly, White cars are really difficult to deal with in sale matched to this being about the last thing you would ever want wooden wheels on (a car that truly cries for metal sidemount tire covers too).   It takes a long time to find the "right" buyer - when something White comes up (or at least that is my experience).  One of the things a lot of people fail to recognize too is what is a good "base product" - there are a lot of Imperials that came from hell and back in condition and I would take this car 100 times over those. 

 

A good friend has a White painted 1935 Auburn 851 Phaeton.  The car came out of a great collection and was very nicely restored matched to being a proven driver/tour car. He and I were talking at Auburn just post a dealer acquaintance offering me the car - the dealer had just picked it up via bombing at a major auction and just wanted to make a few bucks and move on.  My friend wanted a Boattail and I said to temporarily rethink that given their difficulty to find and pick the car up as it was super nice car for a very reasonable price (good way to get into Club and ...).  And if wanted he could always repaint it and still be ok on it.    Well, he did buy it - it has proven an outstanding car, it has been to ACD festival several times, it has allowed him to better meet a ton of people (it also holds 5 people so they have had their friends with them too), it has been shown at numerous Concours d'Elegance events, and best of all his wife loves it just the way it is (and loves to drive it too - great support to have her enthusiasm). 

Edited by John_Mereness (see edit history)
  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 1 month later...
On 1/7/2020 at 4:07 AM, Narve N said:

You are absolutely correct. Dammann and myself mixed it up and here is the same picture (low resolution) from a period Chrysler leaflet. It was a Kellner Cvt Cp made for King Carol II of Romania:

 

 

 

 

997259308_CGCvtCp3Kellnerzoom-seldtilRomaniamfl.jpg.745d7a19bf47aaf41bcac5a83a42077e.jpg

 

The '31 Imperial by Kellner, from the July 1932 issue of Chrysler-Plymouth Overseas Graphic magazine,

published for foreign markets by the Chrysler Export Corporation, Detroit, MI.

It is by Alexis Kellner of Berlin, not Kellner of Paris. 

https://www.coachbuild.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=157&t=15347

 

image.thumb.png.538409ece5b44be116588df9ca20256a.png

 

A 1932 Imperial by Drauz for King Carol II, from from the January 1935 issue of Chrysler-Plymouth Overseas Graphic magazine.

King Carol II had a large stable of coachbuilt cars.

https://www.coachbuild.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=266&t=1689

 

1328575706_CP3511832ImperialKingCarolIICX.thumb.jpg.79299c76391cb9085cc25778c292e9cc.jpg

Caption from above, 

 

"Personalities...

La SARAL, S.A., our distributors in Bucharest have kindly sent us this interesting picture of His Majesty Carol II, King of Romania, (sitting) in his brand new Imperial Chrysler during the festivities recently held in the capital of the kingdom."

 

King Carol II is the man in plumed hat and moustache in the back seat of the Imperial coachbuilt by Drauz of Heilbronn, Germany.

 

There are similarities between these two Imperials, as in 1930 Kellner went bankrupt and its name and patent rights were bought by Drauz.

 

TG

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Source: The Beaulieu Encyclopaedia of the Automobile Coachbuilding, edited by Nick Georgano:

Kellner (i) (F) 1903-1938

1903-1910 G. Kellner & Ses Fils, 125 Malakoff, Paris.

1910-1938 Kellner Freres, Successeurs, Pairs and Boulogne-sur-Seine.

 

Kellner (ii) (D) 1910-1935

Carrosserie Alexis Kellner AG, Berlin

"There was no connection between Kellner Berlin and Kellner et ses Fils in Paris, the names were purely coincidental."

 

Drauz (D) 1900-1956

Drauz Karosseriewerke, Heilbronn

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...